Beret confusion

[isuhawkeye]

I had a long post written up, but It timed out before I could click send. 

Mission - The National Blue Beret activity is a single base of many that operates durring the EAA airventure event.  when I was chief of Emegency services for NBB I was titled as an Operations Chief, and I worked under the Wisconsin Wing IC using the Area Command model. 
more to follow when I have time

[HGjunkie]

Mike please lock this thread.
I think cadets on this board should read more and POST LESS!!!
HGJunkie you are out of line.

Um, Why?

[JayT]

Mike please lock this thread.
I think cadets on this board should read more and POST LESS!!!
HGJunkie you are out of line.

Um, Why?

Everyone chill. It's a civil discussion.

[CAPC/officer125]

@CAPC/officer125: Were you operating on TAC or the Repeater? Because if you were listening to the Repeater, you would have heard the improper codeword use frequently.

There was one instance when we had an overdue, and I was out on the flightline with a Mobile VHF monitoring the Repeater, and a a handheld VHF talking to base. We heard the overdue, and saw the number in our log on the Flightline. Before the entire conversation announcing our new Overdue was complete, I radioed back to base that we had it. Base radioed to the Appleton ICP "We have it in our log" and then Beret said "we have it in our log" thinking that we were using some sort of new proword they never heard of before. As a result of Beret's miscommunication, I had to go do an entire Ramp Check for the aircraft.

That is just one example. I am sure that there are people at Beret who know what they are doing, and I am certain that there are people who have no idea what is going on up at Beret. Sadly, I've only encountered the latter in my CAP career.

I am unsure of what we used. We had a repeater and "bricks" and those went out whenever people were off compound. There were several flight TAC officers that had ISRs that they distributed to their staff and used as communication between each other on the flight line to keep traffic on the "bricks" down. As far as the use of pro words, I am sorry you heard incorrect usage and miscommunication, but that is something we had to deal with to as well. I am pretty sure the "ES officer" (their title for the activity) behind the cadet that was running the radios at that moment in time slapped them upside the head and attempted to correct it. I cannot speak on behalf of everyone there, but I did my best to sound professional at all time when on the radio (albeit for only a couple hours).

[Eclipse]

What everyone should find most concerning here is not the minutia of hats or radio chatter, but the fact that a marquee activity of CAP
has such a clear disconnect between perception and reality not only in "participants vs. onlookers", but between participants themselves, and in something so basic as who is in control of the activity.

Those of us on the outside with a stuck craw only see the arrogance of the bad actors, we don't encounter the quiet professionalism of the majority.

Why? Because they are quiet and professional.

However that doesn't change the fact that we have to deal with that vocal minority of goobers who make it difficult for everyone. 

[OldGuard]

Mike please lock this thread.
I think cadets on this board should read more and POST LESS!!!
HGJunkie you are out of line.

Silly me.......here I am thinking your post is out of line

[Майор Хаткевич]

Mike please lock this thread.
I think cadets on this board should read more and POST LESS!!!
HGJunkie you are out of line.

Silly me.......here I am thinking your post is out of line

Come on folks! I didn't find HGJunkie being disrespectful. Maybe in need of more tact, but not disrespectful. Lets just drop it here, and discuss the silly topic rather than this. 

[Major Carrales]

The "anti-cadet" attitude is not in keeping with the Core Values and missions of the Civil Air Patrol.

In all honesty, any such comparisons...USCGAux, Salvation Army, Young Marines, Boy Scouts and the whole spectrum of other organizations in existance with remotely similar missions, or semblence of missions, to CAP are their own distinct organization.

I have always, and many can confirm, been suspect of people attempting to "graft" policy from these mutual aid organizations onto CAP.  Many times, what works for them does not mean it would necessarily work for CAP.

[jimmydeanno]

The "anti-cadet" attitude is not in keeping with the Core Values and missions of the Civil Air Patrol.

In all honesty, any such comparisons...USCGAux, Salvation Army, Young Marines, Boy Scouts and the whole spectrum of other organizations in existance with remotely similar missions, or semblence of missions, to CAP are their own distinct organization.

I have always, and many can confirm, been suspect of people attempting to "graft" policy from these mutual aid organizations onto CAP.  Many times, what works for them does not mean it would necessarily work for CAP.

Silence, I outrank you. 

[Krapenhoeffer]

And I respect those who can do their job. And the people who are more interested in the job at hand don't care about a stupid hat, which, frankly doesn't keep the sun out of one's eyes.

I would be all for a NBB ball cap (or, I guess... AirVenture CAP ballcap).

I, sadly, know of quite a few people who would go to NBB just for the Beret. I, myself, would love to be able to spend a week up at Oshkosh without having to worry about accommodations. But the elitist mentality of a few needs to be nipped in the bud, all for the good of CAP.

As for the person who said that the Cadets are out of line... Cadets make up a huge chunk of GSAR, and can free up some Seniors to perform aircrew tasks, or Incident Command tasks who otherwise might have been GTMs. They are as important to ES as any Senior.

If a Cadet has an idea about how to make ES better, I'm willing to hear them out.

Once again, this is a WEBFORUM, not a weekly meeting. This is a place to share ideas, and gripe.

And Cadets need to share ideas and gripe as much as we Seniors have to.

Besides, CadetStuff is weak in the ES area.

[DakRadz]

And I respect those who can do their job.

snip

I, sadly, know of quite a few people who would go to NBB just for the Beret. I, myself, would love to be able to spend a week up at Oshkosh without having to worry about accommodations. But the elitist mentality of a few needs to be nipped in the bud, all for the good of CAP.

Sir, I agree with the first statement out of simple common sense.

The second paragraph is fairly accurate- Here's an exchange from encampment between myself and a NBB graduate-

NBB- So what NCSAs do you plan to apply for next year, cadet?
Me- Well sir, I was thinking NESA and COS.
NBB- Pfft. Why NESA? Go to NBB, you get GTM3 qualified and a beret too.

As for the person who said that the Cadets are out of line...
Snippity

That particular remark was made by a SM in reference to a specific comment a cadet made- the SM wasn't talking about cadets in general, just that one incident.

[Major Carrales]

The "anti-cadet" attitude is not in keeping with the Core Values and missions of the Civil Air Patrol.

In all honesty, any such comparisons...USCGAux, Salvation Army, Young Marines, Boy Scouts and the whole spectrum of other organizations in existence with remotely similar missions, or semblance of missions, to CAP are their own distinct organization.

I have always, and many can confirm, been suspect of people attempting to "graft" policy from these mutual aid organizations onto CAP.  Many times, what works for them does not mean it would necessarily work for CAP.

Silence, I outrank you. 

At this time all that is known is that I am a Major and you, based on your anonymity and pen-name, are two letters away from being a famous singer or breakfast sausage.  Sorry, but while anonymity has its benefits, it also has its faults.

  Just kidding.

[HGjunkie]

I'm not for the Beret being authorized, but i'm not against it either. However, I have to throw up the BS flag on the fact that it doesn't provide element protection. It can't be much worse that the Flight Cap, and for the sun in your eyes, it's nothing sunscreen and sunglasses can't cure.

Just sayin'. 

[C-150]

I have yet to understand how so many can miss the point of what is said. Not everyone, but a few is all it takes to create total confusion. Just another sign of the times I guess.

[DakRadz]

I'm not for the Beret being authorized, but i'm not against it either. However, I have to throw up the BS flag on the fact that it doesn't provide element protection. It can't be much worse that the Flight Cap, and for the sun in your eyes, it's nothing sunscreen and sunglasses can't cure.

Just sayin'. 

Consider, young Padawan, that in our wonderful program, the beret is only authorized (at NBB, and) with the BDU uniform.

What styles of headgear do we wear with the BDU? Are they generally element-protective? BDU ballcap, BDU cap- rather a bit more than a beret.

[HGjunkie]

I'm not for the Beret being authorized, but i'm not against it either. However, I have to throw up the BS flag on the fact that it doesn't provide element protection. It can't be much worse that the Flight Cap, and for the sun in your eyes, it's nothing sunscreen and sunglasses can't cure.

Just sayin'. 

Consider, young Padawan, that in our wonderful program, the beret is only authorized (at NBB, and) with the BDU uniform.

What styles of headgear do we wear with the BDU? Are they generally element-protective? BDU ballcap, BDU cap- rather a bit more than a beret.

I get your point. I was just throwing it out there that the sun in your face could be an easy fix.

[ZigZag911]

Mike please lock this thread.
I think cadets on this board should read more and POST LESS!!!
HGJunkie you are out of line.

As Warren Oates said in Stripes, "Lighten up, Francis!!!"

The cadet made a politely worded observation/request that was this turning into a broad based uniform thread (as opposed to one narrowly focused on the berets )..a uniform thread veering into a discussion of the Young Marine uniform, not even the CAP uniform.

He was respectful in his tone, and does not deserve a public correction over this, which is much ado about nothing.

Perhaps in future a PM would be a better means of raising an issue like this (though I still feel this one is a non-issue).

[tsrup]

I'm not for the Beret being authorized, but i'm not against it either. However, I have to throw up the BS flag on the fact that it doesn't provide element protection. It can't be much worse that the Flight Cap, and for the sun in your eyes, it's nothing sunscreen and sunglasses can't cure.

Just sayin'. 

Consider, young Padawan, that in our wonderful program, the beret is only authorized (at NBB, and) with the BDU uniform.

What styles of headgear do we wear with the BDU? Are they generally element-protective? BDU ballcap, BDU cap- rather a bit more than a beret.

but not as much as a boonie...

maybe functionality isn't the only part of the equation here..

[HGjunkie]

I'm not for the Beret being authorized, but i'm not against it either. However, I have to throw up the BS flag on the fact that it doesn't provide element protection. It can't be much worse that the Flight Cap, and for the sun in your eyes, it's nothing sunscreen and sunglasses can't cure.

Just sayin'. 

Consider, young Padawan, that in our wonderful program, the beret is only authorized (at NBB, and) with the BDU uniform.

What styles of headgear do we wear with the BDU? Are they generally element-protective? BDU ballcap, BDU cap- rather a bit more than a beret.

but not as much as a boonie...

maybe functionality isn't the only part of the equation here..

Now I wouldn't be against the Boonie being authorized for hot sunny days at all. :angel:

[Eclipse]

Pictures are worth thousands of words.  Here is the entirety of the problem.

Most members (especially younger cadets) wearing a beret think they look like this:


When in fact most look like this gentleman:


And the only "beret-cred" they have comes from this: