Beret confusion

[JayT]

With the comment about squadron commanders not having control of wearing the beret, that was only something I heard. I am searching the regs for it and since your reactions tell me that it is probably not there, I will refer to asking the squadron commander if he has a problem with me wearing it. (I regularly attend meetings at a different squadron then the one I am attached)

This kind of baffles me. You're a cadet officer. Why would a squadron commander not have authority over that?

I know we all got patches, ribbons, numbers, emails, etc from all the activities we go to, however, how often do you stay in contact with the people you meet through NCSAs or encampment? Most of the time, I bet, it is only for the first month or so than it goes away.

So your 'family' at NBB is so close and had such a hard experience together that you need a beret to remind you of them, but you don't actually talk to them?

Most, if not all, NSCAs have a patch, and you get the NCSA ribbon to go with it. You "earn" those by just graduating the program, it is not something you could lose. And by lose I mean you still graduate and can wear the patch and ribbon, but your beret is taken away from you.

And you're still wearing the patch and ribbon from NBB. No one is taking that away from you. How can they take the beret away from you if you never really had it. As was pointed out before, military members who wear berets 'loss' it if they transfer out of their unit.

I remember a few years ago they was the big to do about the old NMMA grads wearing the cords. Uniform regs exist for a reason.

If you look at a group of regular military guys, or cops, or medics at one hundred feet, they'll all be wearing the same uniform, same hats mostly, maybe a few doo das between officers, NCO's, and enlistedmen, but more or less the same. It's only when you're within a few feet of an individual that you notice their individual badges, ribbons, medals, or tabs. The only difference between a paramedic and an EMT in my company is whats written on their LoQ patch.

That is the creed all of us are expected to know. We said it everyday in some fashion or another and I believe it shows why we feel we are so special. I am not saying we are special, that we deserve special treatment, but we do thing that other activities don't (I know there are other activities that do stuff we don't) and deserve credit for it.

No one is saying you shouldn't feel special. Ya'll did something good, something hard. You do deserve credit, and got it. Badge, ribbon, patch, NCSA credit.

One thing that just crossed my mind: every NCSA has a way to distinguish themselves. It seems, though, that most people decide to "pick on" the ones that the most noticeable (i.e. Beret and Hawk). We all earn an NCSA ribbon for going to our select NCSA, but everybody that went to that activity will know at a glance who has been there and who has not. I may not be making sense, but if you think about it, it makes sense. A COS grad can pick out another just by looking at the Mitchell ribbon, a ranger can pick out another ranger, and a beret can pick out a beret. Everyone wants to be noticed for something, that is why we do the stuff we do.

It makes sense, but each activity shouldn't have some special thing different from everyone else. Read someone's rack, or check our their patch.

[Flying Pig]

I am against CAP wearing berets.  I have outlined that in the past.  However, that being said, if one of my cadets attended Blue Beret and is authorized to wear the beret, I would not make "my" cadets take them off to make an example out of them.  I don't think that is fair to the cadets if all of their compadres are wearing them upon graduation from the course.  But I would support axing the berets all together.

Can Blue Berets grads wear them in CAWG?

[bosshawk]

Rob: suggest that you ask Super Cadet #2.

[Krapenhoeffer]

You know, I haven't seen any response from anybody in WIWG.

Well, allow me to correct that. Due to my wonderful College experience, I float in and out of WIWG, and I always make it up for EAA.

Let me speaketh facts, not NBB myths.

There are 4 posts run during EAA.

Fond Du Lac Base at KFLD, Seaplane Base at 96WI, Appleton Base at KATW and Beret Base at KOSH.

With the exception of Beret, all the bases are run by Wisconsin Wing personnel. The other bases are usually undermanned, and have to work as hard (if not harder), without nice barracks to sleep in, and no beret.

And the Beret is mocked to no end in Wisconsin. Why shouldn't we? Their comm staff just absolutely loves the use of "Over and Out." When off duty, they act like they own the place.

There is only one squadron in WI in which Berets are commonly worn by Seniors. That squadron's ground teams haven't been called to play in ages, after a particular incident in which they decided to show up on a missing person search wearing berets. Their gung ho mindset and refusal to follow instructions of the GTLs from another squadron led to an incident, and their unofficial ban.

Cadets in WI who wear their berets, except in the above squadron, are usually told to knock it off as soon as they even dream of wearing after the event.

Seniors who attend Beret the NCSA are treated as traitors to the wing.

Wisconsin Wing has operational authority over all personnel at Blue Beret, and Incident Command staff is all WIWG as well. Any ELT heard which is not on the ground at Whittman field is located and silenced by WI.

The Beret is stupid. The Beret isn't "earned." The Beret mindset gets people injured.

Now, if CAP had something like "Airborne Ground Teams" that would warrant the wear of a Beret. Not sitting on a flight line, writing down tail numbers.

[C-150]

The Blue Beret has been around since I was a cadet many years ago and still have not figured out why. Cadets go to Oshkosh park airplanes and are now "special ops".....they probably should go away. As far as the mind set of cadets arguing with a senior officer about uniform regs....that I blame on senior leadership. Of course seniors do it as well. On that note ...follow the regs or move on. You want "special ops" looking items ....join the service and apply for it. You want polos and beards join the volunteer fire dept. I have a uniform code in my work place and we follow or you can be subjected to corrective action including termination. We have become a society of whinny people in America. Yes we are a volunteer organization, but with a very noble history and purpose. My son is in the Young Marine program and they do not tolerate any uniform violations or disrespect whatsoever.

[HGjunkie]

The Blue Beret has been around since I was a cadet many years ago and still have not figured out why. Cadets go to Oshkosh park airplanes and are now "special ops".....they probably should go away. As far as the mind set of cadets arguing with a senior officer about uniform regs....that I blame on senior leadership. Of course seniors do it as well. On that note ...follow the regs or move on. You want "special ops" looking items ....join the service and apply for it. You want polos and beards join the volunteer fire dept. I have a uniform code in my work place and we follow or you can be subjected to corrective action including termination. We have become a society of whinny people in America. Yes we are a volunteer organization, but with a very noble history and purpose. My son is in the Young Marine program and they do not tolerate any uniform violations or disrespect whatsoever.

But we're not the Young Marines.

[Krapenhoeffer]

C-150: The wearing of a beard has no bearing whatsoever on CAP's ability to prosecute any of its missions. Beards may be worn in any CAP-distinctive uniform save the TPU. Polos are authorized by CAPM 39-1. You have just insulted 99% of Senior Members by saying what you just said about the polo shirt.

As for the "Young Marines," I didn't know that the Marines liked bling on their uniforms, let alone full sized medals on their BDUs. And the chest full of ribbons that they wear is enough to make any CAP-hater laugh. Besides, have you ever seen a Young Marine out on a SAR mission, or Disaster Relief mission? Even the Boy Scouts are there on DR missions.

The CAP Cadet Program, problems and all, is still far superior to anything else out on the market, and personally, I believe the problems in the Cadet Program better prepare one for the rigors of Real Life. The CAP Cadet Program taught me respect, discipline AND radio direction finding. I am grateful for the experience that the Cadet Program gave me, and will strongly recommend to my own children to join it someday.

I would not be where I am today if it were not for CAP.

[NCRblues]

You know, I haven't seen any response from anybody in WIWG.

Well, allow me to correct that. Due to my wonderful College experience, I float in and out of WIWG, and I always make it up for EAA.

Let me speaketh facts, not NBB myths.

There are 4 posts run during EAA.

Fond Du Lac Base at KFLD, Seaplane Base at 96WI, Appleton Base at KATW and Beret Base at KOSH.

With the exception of Beret, all the bases are run by Wisconsin Wing personnel. The other bases are usually undermanned, and have to work as hard (if not harder), without nice barracks to sleep in, and no beret.

And the Beret is mocked to no end in Wisconsin. Why shouldn't we? Their comm staff just absolutely loves the use of "Over and Out." When off duty, they act like they own the place.

There is only one squadron in WI in which Berets are commonly worn by Seniors. That squadron's ground teams haven't been called to play in ages, after a particular incident in which they decided to show up on a missing person search wearing berets. Their gung ho mindset and refusal to follow instructions of the GTLs from another squadron led to an incident, and their unofficial ban.

Cadets in WI who wear their berets, except in the above squadron, are usually told to knock it off as soon as they even dream of wearing after the event.

Seniors who attend Beret the NCSA are treated as traitors to the wing.

Wisconsin Wing has operational authority over all personnel at Blue Beret, and Incident Command staff is all WIWG as well. Any ELT heard which is not on the ground at Whittman field is located and silenced by WI.

The Beret is stupid. The Beret isn't "earned." The Beret mindset gets people injured.

Now, if CAP had something like "Airborne Ground Teams" that would warrant the wear of a Beret. Not sitting on a flight line, writing down tail numbers.

Wrong...national has operation control over the personnel at blue beret.... please cite where the authority comes from (considering beret is an air force mission with an assigned air force mission number, national owns the property on whittman with a 99 year lease)

Please cite that the incident command staff is WI wing.....considering i just returned from NBB and the IC staff was Lt. Col. Smally of Texas wing, Col Hanson of Kansas and Maj. Pace of Louisiana plus several others.

Your information is wrong and formed from those who think becasue it happens inside that state everything about it should be yours.

[DakRadz]

Young Marines, huh?

In my time in Navy and Air Force JROTC, as well as Civil Air Patrol's Cadet Program, I have never, repeat never been authorized to wear ribbons on my BDUs. How's that for showing off?
(P.S. We made sure our rolled sleeves had the proper length, too )
JROTC is an outstanding program, but it really does focus on making better citizens- not nearly as military-centric as a proper CAP Cadet or Composite squadron in many aspects such as uniform wear and discipline, more military life skills that can directly apply to a civilian career and life. Not that my retired instructors would let a cadet walk around looking horrible, just much different than my CAP experience. The few Army JROTC units I've dealt with let cadets wear the uniform pretty much anywhere that's not anti-American.
The UNNSC (Sea Cadets) insulted my Navy JROTC program in front of our retired E-9 Master Chief, because NJROTC (until next year) does not wear the same uniforms as the Real Navy (i.e. the Sea Cadets were authorized dungarees, while we had khakis). This was during a recruiting pitch so that they could replace NJROTC at the high school due to funding issues.

Civil Air Patrol has been the most positive program I have dealt with, with the most professionalism and discipline. I look forward to the three years I have left, as I feel they will be the best years of my cadet life- and to an extent, my life, period.

[tsrup]

The Blue Beret has been around since I was a cadet many years ago and still have not figured out why. Cadets go to Oshkosh park airplanes and are now "special ops".....

I don't see it. 

A Beret is a Beret.  It signifies that they went to Oshkosh to park airplanes.  Any other assumption toward its meaning is incorrect.

Any other meaning than that is given (incorrectly) by you.

[Krapenhoeffer]

Yes, each base has a commander, but if you look at the directives for the mission, the ICP is co-located with Appleton Base, and the overall Incident Commander is from Wisconsin Wing.

Sure, Nat'l may have own the NBB Barracks, but that doesn't mean that Beret is the ICP.

From a NCSA standpoint, yes Beret is in charge of itself, but in the status as an Air Force Assigned Mission, Wisconsin is in charge, as the whole thing is in our backyard.

Not to mention that the rules are changed slightly for the EAA mission.

When an aircraft is overdue, Green Bay FSS contacts the WIWG IC, who disseminates the information to each of the bases. If an ELT is heard away from KOSH, WIWG is activated to silence it. Not Beret.

If you had a copy of the Directives, you could check that, however I'm not going to post FOUO information on CAPTalk. If you go next year, try to get a glimpse at it. Also, tell the Comm staff to knock it off with the improper codeword use. It drives all of us insane.

@DakRadz: MAKE IT GO AWAY!! MY EYES, THEY BLEED!!

[DakRadz]

To keep in line with the topic itself... I love wearing the beret at AFJROTC, but it's really just a hard-kewl thing. My instructors came up with it to reward the Drill (and possibly Color Guard, not sure) Team for our dedication with putting in at least 3 days a week of practice, staying abnormally late to practice, and earning 3 trophies at our very first ever drill meet. So a lot is expected to earn that beret compared to the normal JROTC cadet (who only has to come to class, wear uni once a week, and pass tests).
Despite all this, I led the drill team to 3 trophies without even thinking about a beret, and could do so again- it's a nice reward, but I wouldn't mind having it taken simply because it isn't standard in the JROTC program (though many use it, no official regs/Holms Center action- sound familiar??) and it in no way affects the performance of my team- unless the taking of the beret is done in the form of punishment, which affects morale.

Tell seniors... Whatever you deem appropriate- I won't give advice on correcting/advising/etc. my superiors.

Tell cadets that berets are not authorized, congratulations on completing an exceptionally hard week for someone your age, and I appreciate your maturity in maintaining squadron uniformity (by wearing BDU cap/other official 39-1 headgear) as an obvious leader and role model of cadets. Any cadet should accept this and be proud of their skills, not their blingage.

[CAPC/officer125]

Also, tell the Comm staff to knock it off with the improper codeword use. It drives all of us insane.

All cadets and seniors received BCUT upon arrival (most of them had it or ACUT before they came but everyone received it anyway). One thing that was made expressly clear was the proper use of pro words. All my times on Comm and other times listening to the radios, I never heard or uttered the words "Over and Out" or "Roger WilCo" etc. All the cadets and seniors there maintained proper etiquette on the radio. 

[C-150]

The Young Marines with ribbons on the BDU are not showing off. The USMC has authorized this for special occasions only. The reason being is the costs of supplying each Young Marine with dress uniforms. I can assure you that the Marine League sees to it that USMC policy on wear of the uniform is followed to the letter. Also yes YM units have been involved with real world operations. The unit here assists with disaster relief and works very closely with the Marine Reserve Unit during their UTA times. So it is not just wear a uniform and show up thing. They must meet standards for promotion. They have written tests and and oral board of adult USMC leaders to be considered for promotion.  People on here should be working for the media or serving in Congress. Far to often someone says something and it gets blown way out of context. Not once did I say anything negative about the CAP cadet program. I was a cadet and my son wants to join in addition to being a Young Marine. The leadership training is better with Young Marines I think, but the other skills such as AE from CAP are without compare. Not even AFJROTC comes close to CAP in this area. However, far too many in CAP want to go off in wild directions. Just take a look at this site. It is a sampling of the overall thought. Uniform violations, uniform arguments, should be more military, should be more EMS like......I am simply saying the CAP was here long before we were. When I joined I was told what the organization was and accepted that and have serve proudly. But today everyone not just CAP but our whole society wants to be spoon feed. Far too many organizations and companies are constantly in total confusion because someone is unhappy. In my dept. we have officers  complaining all of the time. Our chief recently redeployed some of the shifts. My God you have the world was ending according to some the officers. My solution....do your job as it is outlined and required or move on.

[Krapenhoeffer]

@CAPC/officer125: Were you operating on TAC or the Repeater? Because if you were listening to the Repeater, you would have heard the improper codeword use frequently.

There was one instance when we had an overdue, and I was out on the flightline with a Mobile VHF monitoring the Repeater, and a a handheld VHF talking to base. We heard the overdue, and saw the number in our log on the Flightline. Before the entire conversation announcing our new Overdue was complete, I radioed back to base that we had it. Base radioed to the Appleton ICP "We have it in our log" and then Beret said "we have it in our log" thinking that we were using some sort of new proword they never heard of before. As a result of Beret's miscommunication, I had to go do an entire Ramp Check for the aircraft.

That is just one example. I am sure that there are people at Beret who know what they are doing, and I am certain that there are people who have no idea what is going on up at Beret. Sadly, I've only encountered the latter in my CAP career.

[HGjunkie]

C-150

Let's keep the Young Marines out of this, okay? They are irrelevant to the topic at hand.

[C-150]

C-150

Let's keep the Young Marines out of this, okay? They are irrelevant to the topic at hand.

I was responding to a comment made about their ribbons. Not bringing YM into the discussion. I am only educating someone who had no clue to the facts.

[HGjunkie]

C-150

Let's keep the Young Marines out of this, okay? They are irrelevant to the topic at hand.

I was responding to a comment made about their ribbons. Not bringing YM into the discussion. I am only educating someone who had no clue to the facts.

Based on how DakRadz posts, I think he was joking around about the showing off.

Seriously though, not relevant.

[EMT-83]

I thought Mike was the moderator here.

[Senior]

Mike please lock this thread.
I think cadets on this board should read more and POST LESS!!!
HGJunkie you are out of line.