Beret confusion

[Майор Хаткевич]

Yeah, Im pretty much done with this thread. I understand the hostility towards Berets like myself, and Honestly, I find it ridiculous that people would hate us this much. I'm sorry for whatever we did.

You hate my Beret, thats fine, but I will still wear mine proud

How can you understand and not know what you did? And stop with the martyr talk. No one here said anything against you directly in this thread. Of course, If I ever ran into you I might chuckle at the beret. Patrol Caps work just fine.

[davidsinn]

Before you start dissing my wing you need to understand something. We have a 39-1 supplement authorizing a blue beret with flight cap device for cadet enlisted or SM and metal grade for cadet officers for use only on ES missions if you have earned a GT rating. I have one. I wear it when I'm in the field. This supplement is published on the members only portion of the wing wiki. I think Ace might have one on his site. Every pic posted on this page from my wing is perfectly in line with the regs. The NBB over blues is not allowed.

[Майор Хаткевич]

What about the Cadets? Are you sure they are from NBB too?

A number of them also had pictures with the crest/at NBB. Besides, since the beret is only authorized by NBB, you really think that Captain would just encourage this behavior?

he is wearing ABDU's...
Im guessing he's never bothered himself with the regs...

Yea, noticed that too. I was just more shocked by the Beret w/Metal C/Capt Grade  with Metal C/Capt grade on collar w/ ranger grade above CAP tape...

[Майор Хаткевич]

Before you start dissing my wing you need to understand something. We have a 39-1 supplement authorizing a blue beret with flight cap device for cadet enlisted or SM and metal grade for cadet officers for use only on ES missions if you have earned a GT rating. I have one. I wear it when I'm in the field. This supplement is published on the members only portion of the wing wiki. I think Ace might have one on his site. Every pic posted on this page from my wing is perfectly in line with the regs. The NBB over blues is not allowed.

Are non-regulation BDUs and Cadet Officer Metal Grade also authorized in INWG? What about ranger grade?

I would also have to question the intent of such a supplement, especially in wintertime...

[davidsinn]

Before you start dissing my wing you need to understand something. We have a 39-1 supplement authorizing a blue beret with flight cap device for cadet enlisted or SM and metal grade for cadet officers for use only on ES missions if you have earned a GT rating. I have one. I wear it when I'm in the field. This supplement is published on the members only portion of the wing wiki. I think Ace might have one on his site. Every pic posted on this page from my wing is perfectly in line with the regs. The NBB over blues is not allowed.

Are non-regulation BDUs and Cadet Officer Metal Grade also authorized in INWG? What about ranger grade?

I would also have to question the intent of such a supplement, especially in wintertime...

No to the first two. Ranger grade was unfortunatly authorized by the NB. That mission you have pictures of took place right around the freezing point so it wasn't that cold. I really don't get the hate for the hat. I completly understand the hatred of the elite attitude. I can't stand the attitude that a lot of those people have. The overwhelming majority of GTM beret wearers are just like any other GTM attitude wise. Yes there are some that need beaten with a clue by four but it's not the hat that causes that. They have a bad attitude from their home unit or just because they are arrogant sobs. You'll get that anywhere.

[Майор Хаткевич]

4 years ago, I believe the ranger grade was one of the things that was not authorized for wear, or was pulled down almost immediately after. Either way, the silence on the issue is annoying and should be resolved one way or the other.

[Flying Pig]

Yeah, Im pretty much done with this thread. I understand the hostility towards Berets like myself, and Honestly, I find it ridiculous that people would hate us this much. I'm sorry for whatever we did.

You hate my Beret, thats fine, but I will still wear mine proud



Nobody "hates" the beret or you.  Its just silly that we use them as a symbol for helping out at an airshow. As a professional SAR person in my day job, you would be laughed at if you showed up to assist with berets on.  A bunch of kids showing up with berets on will NOT cause you to be taken seriously.  It will have quite the opposite effect. 
I have always been the guy who likes to point out the reality of a situation, so here it goes.  Dont read any further if you are easly hurt.  CAP is there to track down the hundreds of ELTs that go off over the course of the airshow because nobody else wants to do it  while they are there partying at Oshkosh.  We think its cool....nobody else does.  So what do we do to keep the labor coming back.  We offer the cadets berets so we have a continuous recruitment tool for cheap labor.  And then we make you pay to come work.  Im sure everyone who wears the beret will disagree.  But there you have it.
In other countries, everyone wears berets.  England as an example.  In the US, we don't.  People recognize the beret as an elite symbol. 

In the real world of SAR which is what Blue Berets claim to be trained at, a bunch of cadets arriving to assist on a SAR with other professional SAR members, such as a Sheriff's SAR team or even working with the Guard in some instances, wearing berets is really lame to put it frankly.  If you show up at a CAP function, sure you look cool amongst your peers because you are sporting a beret.
I think the program is great and I think NBB is a good program but lets keep it in perspective.  So some teams use it as a  Ground Team symbol?  Really?  I never knew.  Why?  We have GT badges.  The beret is purely a "look at me" identifier.  I completely understand that cadets need incentives.  Not a problem.  They have plenty of them.  But of all the cadet programs CAP has, why is NBB the only ones wearing berets?  I think if programs like CSS, PJOC-APJOC, CCT Orientation and even the flamboyant Ranger program can manage their programs without a beret, to me, I think NBB could definitely do without it.

Look, I get it.  Let me make a confession.  When I was a cadet, I BEGGED my parents to send me to NBB.  My unit had 2 cadets who went and looked freaking awesome cruising around CAP activities, Wing Cadet Conference and encampment with the berets on and I wanted one.  BAD!  It was about $700 to go to NBB with the airfare included.  This was in the late 80s and early 90s.  When the cadets came back from NBB.  They didnt come back with any great skill or training program.  They were never called on to perform any missions or do anything special.  And as I grew older, I understood the major motivation behind cadets going.  They wanted the special hat. 
Then I got into the Marines where I learned that there was nothing special that denoted one Marine from another other than maybe jump wings or a SCUBA badge.  We were all Marines.  No unit patches, not berets, no unit pins other than the 5th and 6th Marine Regiments who wear the French Fourragere.  And even with that, you only wear it while assigned to the unit.  When you move on, you leave your rope behind.  It was a unit symbol.  Beyond that, if you had a badge or a symbol its because you were trained in a special skill.  Not because you attended a course.  Heck, Marines dont even get to wear HALO wings to the dismay of many who have attended.  So thats where I draw my current philosophy. 

[PHall]

Before you start dissing my wing you need to understand something. We have a 39-1 supplement authorizing a blue beret with flight cap device for cadet enlisted or SM and metal grade for cadet officers for use only on ES missions if you have earned a GT rating. I have one. I wear it when I'm in the field. This supplement is published on the members only portion of the wing wiki. I think Ace might have one on his site. Every pic posted on this page from my wing is perfectly in line with the regs. The NBB over blues is not allowed.

Why would a Wing Supplement be published in a members only section? Is it classified? Are we trying to hide something???

[davidsinn]

Before you start dissing my wing you need to understand something. We have a 39-1 supplement authorizing a blue beret with flight cap device for cadet enlisted or SM and metal grade for cadet officers for use only on ES missions if you have earned a GT rating. I have one. I wear it when I'm in the field. This supplement is published on the members only portion of the wing wiki. I think Ace might have one on his site. Every pic posted on this page from my wing is perfectly in line with the regs. The NBB over blues is not allowed.

Why would a Wing Supplement be published in a members only section? Is it classified? Are we trying to hide something???

It used to be published in the clear but when they changed to the wiki format everything went behind a password. I don't think we keep IT at the wing level for very long for what ever the reason is. I think it just became easier to maintain in it's current method.

[N Harmon]

I'm going to write a proposal for orange berets for ground teams.

[BGNightfall]

It would appear that there's not a great deal more to be said here.  Cadet Lunsford was successfully shouted down, and sent away with his tail between his legs, as has Cadet Le.  Hooray for all of the senior members and their sense of superiority.  Is it time for the lock yet?

[Eclipse]

No one was "shouted down" or "sent away".

[C-150]

The heart and soul of the matter is getting the job done. You don't need special recognition for that. In a cadet's eyes the beret is a symbol of accomplishment. That is great. I would never tear that down. You should be commended for it. Yes wear the beret when it is time to wear it then put it in safe keeping as a memory of your accomplishment. Afterwards, get on with the job. Some in the AF had an issue with flight crews wearing the flight suit for everything. Some say this was the crews thinking they were elite therefore blue monday was born. All play a part. When the rubber meets the road we are a team. In the AF the guy or gal checking oil at the motor pool is just as important as the F-22 pilot. All pieces must fit the puzzle. The USMC does not have berets or any "special forces" their thought is all Marines are elite and there is no need to seperate the mission. In CAP; cadets are proud of special accomplishments as they should be. I would never tell a cadet different. But the fact of the matter all cadets are special. Take a look around at our country's youth. We have dropouts, gangs, kids with no focus or future. Our kids don't fit that group. They are proud of their country and want to serve. That makes them all special from a new cadet basic to a Spaatz and they don't need a beret or any item to prove it. Seniors as well. We volunteer without pay.....pay for our own uniforms....spend time away from work and family just to save a stranger's life. That makes us all elite in my book. It doesn't matter if you are in the crew making a find or if you are the guy that brought the doughnuts and gathers the trash.....we have a noble mission and are elite!

[Майор Хаткевич]

It would appear that there's not a great deal more to be said here.  Cadet Lunsford was successfully shouted down, and sent away with his tail between his legs, as has Cadet Le.  Hooray for all of the senior members and their sense of superiority.  Is it time for the lock yet?

I'm not a SM (yet), but I was on "the dark side" of this argument. Why? Because I too, like Flying Pig wanted to have the Blue Beret. Fortunately for me, the year I applied, HGA came up during the same period, and by the time I was 16, I realized it was neither what I wanted to do for two weeks, nor worth the silly hat that I wouldn't be able to wear outside the activity. Of course none of that stopped other cadets who got their unit CCs to approve said headgear, even with blues. That unit had a history of doing that with NBB stuff though.

[jimmydeanno]

This sounds very similar to the discussions about JROTC cadets wearing all their stuff on their uniforms and how messed up many think it looks.

My personal opinion?

You can't blame a cadet for wearing something that their program has created or told them to wear.  Telling the kid that it looks messed up, or how much you hate it does nothing. 

"Those darn cadets look like Peruvian dictators with those ribbons and beret..."

Get over it, someone authorized them to wear them, and my personal distaste for it doesn't matter.

[arajca]

Get over it, someone authorized them to wear them, and my personal distaste for it doesn't matter.

Ahhh. There's the rub. In some places, they have NOT been authorized to wear it, but they continue to wear it anyway because they "earned" it.

[Pace]

I haven't really seen any new discussion or input in the last two pages. It appears this one has reached the end of the line and is turning into a JFK, Jr. spiral on both sides.  If you feel like there is something else significant and relevant to contribute, start a new thread.

*Good night*