Beret confusion

[Senior]

I say again, cadets should read more and post less!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cadets, when a SM gives advice or is trying to tell you to be quiet in a nice fashion, because YOU are making a fool of yourself you should say in your Mature mind, Yes sir AND STOP COMMENTING.
Cadets(children) should be reminded that they are just children and should be respectful to the Seniors on this board.
Mike please lock this thread.

[C/MSgt Lunsford]

Sorry, Dude.  Didn't mean to take your words. It's just that the Beret to me, Its more than "bling" and it infuriates me sometimes to hear people refer to it as that. To me, its a symbol of a commitment to help anyone, anywhere, anytime, under any condition

Agreed... and you were not taking my words... just a spelling error on my part.

[C/MSgt Lunsford]

I say again, cadets should read more and post less!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cadets, when a SM gives advice or is trying to tell you to be quiet in a nice fashion, because YOU are making a fool of yourself you should say in your Mature mind, Yes sir AND STOP COMMENTING.
Cadets(children) should be reminded that they are just children and should be respectful to the Seniors on this board.
Mike please lock this thread.

Sir. I always respect Officers, but the Senior Members that took my words out of context, in my opinion, was just a slap in the face for me. I try to explain myself, and they continued on with taking my words out of the original context or, after I corrected myself, they continued on with their rants, etc.

[JayT]

I say again, cadets should read more and post less!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cadets, when a SM gives advice or is trying to tell you to be quiet in a nice fashion, because YOU are making a fool of yourself you should say in your Mature mind, Yes sir AND STOP COMMENTING.
Cadets(children) should be reminded that they are just children and should be respectful to the Seniors on this board.
Mike please lock this thread.

Sir. I always respect Officers, but the Senior Members that took my words out of context, in my opinion, was just a slap in the face for me. I try to explain myself, and they continued on with taking my words out of the original context or, after I corrected myself, they continued on with their rants, etc.

Who is? Which message?

[Gunner C]

Pictures are worth thousands of words.  Here is the entirety of the problem.

Most members (especially younger cadets) wearing a beret think they look like this:

Having been in that organization and having worn that same flash on my GB:

Ever since that movie came out everyone else wanted to have one of those berets.  Many wanted it but few wanted to earn it. I spent a year of my life earning a beret (way before there was a tab).  Every CAP member I ever saw wearing one looked, frankly, like a goof ball wannabe.  Don't be that guy. You don't have the octane to pull it off.

[C/MSgt Lunsford]

I say again, cadets should read more and post less!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cadets, when a SM gives advice or is trying to tell you to be quiet in a nice fashion, because YOU are making a fool of yourself you should say in your Mature mind, Yes sir AND STOP COMMENTING.
Cadets(children) should be reminded that they are just children and should be respectful to the Seniors on this board.
Mike please lock this thread.

Sir. I always respect Officers, but the Senior Members that took my words out of context, in my opinion, was just a slap in the face for me. I try to explain myself, and they continued on with taking my words out of the original context or, after I corrected myself, they continued on with their rants, etc.

Who is? Which message?

In General, people were still ranting after I corrected myself on the elite part. I don't care anymore...

[HGjunkie]

[OFF TOPIC]

...snippy...
You get the ribbon and the patch - just like all other activities. I went to Honor Guard Academy, which gives people a cord to wear. I didn't go for a stupid silver cord, I went to learn how to twirl rifles and HG on a bigger scale. Anyone who goes for a cord I'd laugh at. ...snippy...

Yeah, it is more that the cord, but it's also about more than twirling rifles.
[/OFF TOPIC]

[ZigZag911]

Cadets(children) should be reminded that they are just children and should be respectful to the Seniors on this board.
Mike please lock this thread.

Cadets are not "children"; some are adolescents, others (18+) are legally adults.

Cadets are young people; due to their inexperience and developing maturity they sometimes speak before they think (golly, good thing no seniors ever do that!)

Perhaps of you spoke with them rather than at them (or even down to them!) you might begin to have a positive influence on the cadets.

And before you ask, I've been in CAP over 40 years, so yes, I am a senior...but I was proud to be a cadet officer who earned an Earhart Award.

[Krapenhoeffer]

Cadet Lunsford:

Please try to see where we are coming from. You are talking to people who are GTM1s, GTLs, Mission Pilots/Observers. People with TONS more ES time than you.

You are talking to EMTs, and Military Veterans.

I, personally, have just been awarded my third Find award (Initial +1 Distress, +10 non-Distress). I think I know what I'm talking about.

What you said regarding Seniors needing to grow up, when you have no actual Mission experience, whatsoever, makes your actions completely out of line.

If I felt vindictive, I could take your name, grade and Wright Bros. number, find your Squadron, and send that post to your Unit Commander.

You will NEVER insult your superiors in a public setting. You may bring up your disagreements in private, but you will NEVER insult.

Bear that in mind the next time you post.

[Senior]

WIWAC, #1122, Spaatz.....
I learned in CAP as a cadet to be a follower.  Learning my place in
an organization and in life served me well in the military.  I learned
the importance of following orders and quickly accomplishing task. 
Now, in the context of this thread we have cadets, HGJunkie, Lunsford
being disrespectful to other members of this board.  I am just trying
to make a point to those who just don't seem to get it that they should be respectful of Senior members and to post less and read more.
Gunner C is the only one on this board who has earned the right to wear a beret and it wasn't from NBB.  Thanks for your service Gunner C.  Gunner C. I like the "octane to pull it off" comment :clap: .

[Майор Хаткевич]

Jeeze...the bold tags don't work on the posts....<_<

Sir. I always respect Officers, but the Senior Members that took my words out of context, in my opinion, was just a slap in the face for me.

Ah...

I'd like to give my 2 cents...

If anyone has seen my facebook, I am already looking forward to going to Blue Beret 2011. One reason I am going is to advance my GTM training. Another reason is to earn the Blue Beret. There is nothing wrong with wanting to earn a beret, which shows the elite training that you endured.

I also think that National HQ should keep their decision to allow the Blue Beret. NBB, is a elite training for GES, and that beret shows that the said person that wears it, endured that training.

I'd also like to point out a quote from blueberet.org...The person makes the beret...The beret does not make the person.That mean that the beret does not mean anything special just because you put it on, but when you earn the beret, it symbolizes the extensive training that you went through.'nuff said.

What part of that whole post was taken out of context?  You then go on to say:

I'm defending it because I feel that is a vital program for CAP, andthat is my opinion.

What experience is that opinion based on?

I was basically trying to defend the NBB in the first place. For those who think it is a bad program, then they don't know what they are talking about.

Please show me a quote where someone said the program as a whole is bad? Also tell me how exactly you know it to be otherwise?

Don't compare me with those "bad apples" that try to be "Rambo" likebecause they have a beret. I am a Sergeant, I am more mature than that.I was just simply stating that the beret is a nice edition, I think itis pretty cool. Nothing wrong with that, is there? Or should you bashme for saying that statement?

Have you any idea how redicilous those two statements are together? It's akin to a cadet saying "I'm not a sir, I work for a living". I've seen many goofball cadet NCOs and OFFICERS come back from Hawk or NBB with major attitude issues. Many of them were the same age as or older than you are now.

Never would find myself saying this to Senior Member's, but some need to grow up.

And this shows your maturity how? You get called out on your statements and now people who are at times more than twice your age need to grow up? Seriously?

[OFF TOPIC]

...snippy...
You get the ribbon and the patch - just like all other activities. I went to Honor Guard Academy, which gives people a cord to wear. I didn't go for a stupid silver cord, I went to learn how to twirl rifles and HG on a bigger scale. Anyone who goes for a cord I'd laugh at. ...snippy...

Yeah, it is more that the cord, but it's also about more than twirling rifles.
[/OFF TOPIC]

Isn't that what I said right after the twirling part? *Checks his post* I think it is!



I think Senior's advice should really be taken by some cadets here. You'll run into people that disagree with you your whole life. In fact, every four years, you'll end up voting in an election where about 50% of the people don't agree with you. Just because others with a lot more experience in life and CAP disagree with your glorified view of an activity, does not give you a license to tell others to grow up or be disrespectful in any way, especially to those who make the cadet program possible for us.The real folks with the power in the Cadet Program are the Cadet Program Senior Member Leaders. Not C/NCOs, nor C/Officers.

[HGjunkie]

^^^ My bad. I misinterpreted the post.

[Cadet 1stLt]

I honestly can't believe that there would be this much argument over a hat. I still stand by my idea that the beret is nothing more than a hat, but its the Cross on the Flash that symbolizes a Blue Beret.

I'm not in the least disrespectful to anyone, cadet or senior, but it's just a hat. It is a piece of felt and wool that you wear on your head. It serves the same purpose as a patrol cap or a ballcap. You wear it on your head. That's it.

And like Ive said before, Its very unfortunate that a few bad apples will spoil it for the rest of us. Those who say that  we didn't "earn" our berets, please, I'd ask you to apply for National Blue Beret next year, go through the training, the pre-operational, the actual operation, and then come home, and tell me the same thing.

We aren't Elite, We aren't "special", we aren't "gods among cadets", and the beret is nothing more than another hat.


Cadets think its cool, that's fantastic.

Seniors think its bull that we get a beret, thats fine with me too.

But like I said, If you think its ridiculous that we get a hat, then please apply for NBB, and go through the training, go through the operation, and tell me that you have the same ideals that you have now.

Very Respectfully,

C/1st Lt Le
Echo Flight
National Blue Beret 2010

[Майор Хаткевич]

What does the two weeks of the hardkewl/hardcore training have to do with it? As long as you don't get kicked out, you end up with a beret, correct?

I've put in more time and training for CAP meetings/Encampments but for some reason I don't get a silly hat. At one point you say you don't care about the hat, the next sentence you say you earned the beret because of the "tough" job you guys did for 1 week + 1 week training. Which is it?

Honestly, you paid money to go work for free somewhere. That's all there is. The focus shouldn't be the beret, it should be the fun at the show while doing some CAP related stuff. The fact of the matter that the beret is the focus means that something is broken about the system.

[C/MSgt Lunsford]

What does the two weeks of the hardkewl/hardcore training have to do with it? As long as you don't get kicked out, you end up with a beret, correct?

I've put in more time and training for CAP meetings/Encampments but for some reason I don't get a silly hat. At one point you say you don't care about the hat, the next sentence you say you earned the beret because of the "tough" job you guys did for 1 week + 1 week training. Which is it?

Honestly, you paid money to go work for free somewhere. That's all there is. The focus shouldn't be the beret, it should be the fun at the show while doing some CAP related stuff. The fact of the matter that the beret is the focus means that something is broken about the system.

Are you taking this to a personal level? Are you going to deny my opinion because I have not had the "experience" you have had? I may have not been to NBB, but I've researched it, that is enough for me to put my 2 cents in.

[Krapenhoeffer]

@ CADET Lunsford:

Yes. I am going to completely deny your opinion on the grounds of experience. You have no authority or grounds to comment. What you read on some Gung Ho Beret website hardly counts as research.

In the ES world, the only thing that matters is experience. Experience in the field, on actual missions.

Once you go to NBB, and get an ACTUAL GTM rating you can talk. Until then, I concur with Senior. Keep your mouth shut. You are only digging yourself a deeper hole.

EDIT: Notice to SYSOP or Admin; I concur with Senior. Please lock this thread. The OP's dilemma has been more than dealt with.

[JayT]

I honestly can't believe that there would be this much argument over a hat. I still stand by my idea that the beret is nothing more than a hat, but its the Cross on the Flash that symbolizes a Blue Beret.

I'm not in the least disrespectful to anyone, cadet or senior, but it's just a hat. It is a piece of felt and wool that you wear on your head. It serves the same purpose as a patrol cap or a ballcap. You wear it on your head. That's it.

And like Ive said before, Its very unfortunate that a few bad apples will spoil it for the rest of us. Those who say that  we didn't "earn" our berets, please, I'd ask you to apply for National Blue Beret next year, go through the training, the pre-operational, the actual operation, and then come home, and tell me the same thing.

We aren't Elite, We aren't "special", we aren't "gods among cadets", and the beret is nothing more than another hat.


Cadets think its cool, that's fantastic.

Seniors think its bull that we get a beret, thats fine with me too.

But like I said, If you think its ridiculous that we get a hat, then please apply for NBB, and go through the training, go through the operation, and tell me that you have the same ideals that you have now.

Very Respectfully,

C/1st Lt Le
Echo Flight
National Blue Beret 2010

No one here is bashing the program, or saying it's not worthwhile, or difficult. But is it so worthwhile and difficult that it requires a special piece of headgear that two ranking cadets officers in this thread have stated is important for them to be reminded of their time there?

Another senior cadet NCO immediately went on the hardcore defensive when I posted something that did not agree with his view, and that cadet hasn't even been selected to attend.

I guess the problem is, as with any specialized program, is people start to drink the Koolaid and then have trouble seeing the outsiders perceptive. One cadet mentioned in response to a post about how little CAP was shown in a documentary about the Air Venture event that their liaison officer told them how important they were. That's his job.

Again, no one is attacking the program, or it's participates, and no one is belittling it. But when bad attitudes about the program are coming from people who haven't even attended it yet, people start to question things.

[C/MSgt Lunsford]

@ CADET Lunsford:

Yes. I am going to completely deny your opinion on the grounds of experience. You have no authority or grounds to comment. What you read on some Gung Ho Beret website hardly counts as research.

In the ES world, the only thing that matters is experience. Experience in the field, on actual missions.

Once you go to NBB, and get an ACTUAL GTM rating you can talk. Until then, I concur with Senior. Keep your mouth shut. You are only digging yourself a deeper hole.

EDIT: Notice to SYSOP or Admin; I concur with Senior. Please lock this thread. The OP's dilemma has been more than dealt with.

I can comment on this thread. You can deny it if you would like, but here is your gung ho website... http://blueberet.org/

I honestly can't believe that there would be this much argument over a hat. I still stand by my idea that the beret is nothing more than a hat, but its the Cross on the Flash that symbolizes a Blue Beret.

I'm not in the least disrespectful to anyone, cadet or senior, but it's just a hat. It is a piece of felt and wool that you wear on your head. It serves the same purpose as a patrol cap or a ballcap. You wear it on your head. That's it.

And like Ive said before, Its very unfortunate that a few bad apples will spoil it for the rest of us. Those who say that  we didn't "earn" our berets, please, I'd ask you to apply for National Blue Beret next year, go through the training, the pre-operational, the actual operation, and then come home, and tell me the same thing.

We aren't Elite, We aren't "special", we aren't "gods among cadets", and the beret is nothing more than another hat.


Cadets think its cool, that's fantastic.

Seniors think its bull that we get a beret, thats fine with me too.

But like I said, If you think its ridiculous that we get a hat, then please apply for NBB, and go through the training, go through the operation, and tell me that you have the same ideals that you have now.

Very Respectfully,

C/1st Lt Le
Echo Flight
National Blue Beret 2010

No one here is bashing the program, or saying it's not worthwhile, or difficult. But is it so worthwhile and difficult that it requires a special piece of headgear that two ranking cadets officers in this thread have stated is important for them to be reminded of their time there?

Another senior cadet NCO immediately went on the hardcore defensive when I posted something that did not agree with his view, and that cadet hasn't even been selected to attend.

I guess the problem is, as with any specialized program, is people start to drink the Koolaid and then have trouble seeing the outsiders perceptive. One cadet mentioned in response to a post about how little CAP was shown in a documentary about the Air Venture event that their liaison officer told them how important they were. That's his job.

Again, no one is attacking the program, or it's participates, and no one is belittling it. But when bad attitudes about the program are coming from people who haven't even attended it yet, people start to question things.

How is my attitude bad about it. I am praising the program... just because I have not been to NBB, does not mean I cannot speculate about it.

[SarDragon]

NBB is a two week activity where you get to work for free, doing things that aren't really all that hard - directing aircraft, hunting ELTs (as much an art as a skill, but in a moderately challenging environment), and using a radio.

What I see is an opportunities to: excel, develop teamwork, establish some camaraderie, and make long term friends. What I don't see is any reason to have an elitist attitude about jobs that folks do all over the country, all the time, just on a smaller scale.

Is it time?

[JayT]

@ CADET Lunsford:

Yes. I am going to completely deny your opinion on the grounds of experience. You have no authority or grounds to comment. What you read on some Gung Ho Beret website hardly counts as research.

In the ES world, the only thing that matters is experience. Experience in the field, on actual missions.

Once you go to NBB, and get an ACTUAL GTM rating you can talk. Until then, I concur with Senior. Keep your mouth shut. You are only digging yourself a deeper hole.

EDIT: Notice to SYSOP or Admin; I concur with Senior. Please lock this thread. The OP's dilemma has been more than dealt with.

I can comment on this thread. You can deny it if you would like, but here is your gung ho website... http://blueberet.org/

Yes. That's a gung ho website. It's been around since I was a Cadet.

Sergeant, we're not 'taking it to a personal level.' We're trying to teach you. Not everyone is going to agree with your opinions, and sometimes you're going to get a bit of a reality check by guys who had been there and done that. Trust me, it happens all the time.