Uniform Options

[Al Sayre]

...why move air crew members to the blue flight suit? Isn't the Air Force flight suit a cheaper item to obtain and made to milspec  standards?

Because a growing number of our aircrew members cannot wear the Air Force one.

Having all members of the same team in the same uniform is more important than permitting some to save a few bucks at the expense of uniformity.

And mil-spec flight suits in blue Nomex are available from Aureus International, Flightsuits.com and others.

Why not go to the khaki/desert/coyote ones; still nomex, nobody else seems to be wearing them INCONUS, and they are readily availble on ebay etc.?

[Eclipse]

Why not go to the khaki/desert/coyote ones; still nomex, nobody else seems to be wearing them INCONUS, and they are readily availble on ebay etc.?

Tan after Labor Day?  PAHLEEAASSSE!

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I totally agree Eclipse, the od flight suit would have to be the uniform of most concern. Unless someone looks very closely to the patches, especially the squadron patches which for the most part look alot like a real USAF patch, especially the patch of 12002, a blue shield with a blue scroll under it and a raven that really looks more like a black eagle striking at it's prey. The Rank looks the same, the patches look the same, I can't remember if the reversed flag goes on the right shoulder of the green flight suit but if it does then there is another problem with it, most everyone knows that the military as a whole wears that patch. Also the name tape, exactly the same unless you are within 3 feet and actively reading it.

[davidsinn]

I totally agree Eclipse, the od flight suit would have to be the uniform of most concern. Unless someone looks very closely to the patches, especially the squadron patches which for the most part look alot like a real USAF patch, especially the patch of 12002, a blue shield with a blue scroll under it and a raven that really looks more like a black eagle striking at it's prey. The Rank looks the same, the patches look the same, I can't remember if the reversed flag goes on the right shoulder of the green flight suit but if it does then there is another problem with it, most everyone knows that the military as a whole wears that patch. Also the name tape, exactly the same unless you are within 3 feet and actively reading it.

I suggest you look at 39-1. The rank is not the same. We wear the plastic encased rank that went out in the AF many years ago. The leather name tag is no more in the AF. The left hand flag is worn on the left shoulder. A unit patch is not authorized on the flight suit. And if by 12002 you mean Bloomington Composite Squadron the correct number is GLR-IN-002.

[Eclipse]

A unit patch is not authorized on the flight suit.

They are when approved by the Wing as one of the optionals...

[davidsinn]

A unit patch is not authorized on the flight suit.

They are when approved by the Wing as one of the optionals...

They can do that?

6. Optional Shoulder Patch: Worn centered 1/2 inch below shoulder seam on right sleeve. Member
may choose one of the authorized patches for the right shoulder, may be wing, region or National
shoulder patch.

I do think that they should be allowed. It doesn't make sense not to.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Like I said I don't know what the reg is on the flight suit but that is the only uniform that I could imagine causing a problem because so far as I knew they looked very similar. Thank you for the clarification. No one at our unit wears the flight suit even though we have three pilots in the squadron.

[Eclipse]

A unit patch is not authorized on the flight suit.

They are when approved by the Wing as one of the optionals...

They can do that?

Yes, my wing has an approved supplement to 39-3.

[KioGoten]

Like I said I don't know what the reg is on the flight suit but that is the only uniform that I could imagine causing a problem because so far as I knew they looked very similar. Thank you for the clarification. No one at our unit wears the flight suit even though we have three pilots in the squadron.

Rob,

Your very much right.  My other post about impersinating an officer went over this.  There are those who have the flight suit and can easily put on the subdued AF rank and this is a HUGE no no.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

That is just the thing, the plastic if it gets clouded from the heat and humidity the rank in the plastic can look subdued unintentionally.

[KioGoten]

That is just the thing, the plastic if it gets clouded from the heat and humidity the rank in the plastic can look subdued unintentionally.

Yup I agree but at an air show I saw a SM have sown in subdued AF rank and so did his wife.  So where do we draw the line? I think the regs should do just a bit better of a job with what is allowed and what isnt =/

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Part of the problem is that there are only so many combinations that can be done. I would hate for SM's to accidentally be doing the wrong thing and get themselves or CAP in trouble. Now so far as people just doing the wrong thing out of ignorance or a disregard for the REGs then there is another problem all together. That is not the fault of the uniform or CAP itself. CAP should not take the hit for that, that should be the individual's problem that comes along with a reprimand of some sort. I would honestly have to say that CAP has done a good job making the uniform as distinctive as it can be. That being said CAP should still not loose the uniform. It is not their fault that some people just have no regard for the regs.

[Eclipse]

That is just the thing, the plastic if it gets clouded from the heat and humidity the rank in the plastic can look subdued unintentionally.

Yup I agree but at an air show I saw a SM have sown in subdued AF rank and so did his wife.  So where do we draw the line? I think the regs should do just a bit better of a job with what is allowed and what isnt =/

The regs in this case are not gray - they specify plastic encased on the green bag.  They were wrong.

[Flying Pig]

Oh no...you have all been sucked into the abyss!

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I agree they were flat wrong.

[Hawk200]

..the od flight suit would have to be the uniform of most concern.

It's not OD, you gotta stop thinking about those tanker bags. 

I think the regs should do just a bit better of a job with what is allowed and what isnt =/

The manual is very clear on what is allowed. It states the following: "COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized. Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear."

How large do you think a publication would have to be specifying everything that is not authorized? I figure the Library of Congress might have enough space.

If you see someone wearing something unauthorized, there's usually a few reasons why they're doing it.

One, they don't know any better. This is usually a result of those people not reading the current manual, but not always. It could be a case of an ICL being missed (which is another reason why 39-1 should have been updated too many yesterdays ago).

Two, someone told them that they can wear it that way. See justification above.

Three, they are choosing to do whatever they wish and don't care about what the manual says. This is an unfortunate one, and even though the number of people doing this may be small, they are the ones that receive the most attention.

Adopting a non Air Force uniform won't really fix these issues. Education might fix the first two, but it's no guarantee it will fix the last.

ABU's are probably what we'll be wearing in the future, be it near or far. They will be far more readily available than any CAP specific uniform item. The members of CAP can't really afford "unique" items. They will cost more than generally available ones adapted to our purpose.

Besides, what would be the point of an organization that claims affiliation with the Air Force, but doesn't look even similar to the Air Force?

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Besides, what would be the point of an organization that claims affiliation with the Air Force, but doesn't look even similar to the Air Force?

Exactly.

[DrJbdm]

...why move air crew members to the blue flight suit? Isn't the Air Force flight suit a cheaper item to obtain and made to milspec  standards?

Because a growing number of our aircrew members cannot wear the Air Force one.

Having all members of the same team in the same uniform is more important than permitting some to save a few bucks at the expense of uniformity.

And mil-spec flight suits in blue Nomex are available from Aureus International, Flightsuits.com and others.

  Ok, but should we phase out the Air Force flight suit simply because we have members who cannot wear the flight suit? Is the good of a few better then the good of the whole? Your argument, while trying to be inclusive to those who cannot wear the flight suit is actually prejudged to those who can. That is incredibly offensive to those of us who can and do wear the flight suit.

You would rather force members to spend substantially more money on a flight suit just so that everyone can wear the same thing? Seriously?? Is that any worse than saying we are forcing everyone into the Air Force flight suit?

   You are correct, blue flight suits are available from those sources, but look at the costs. I have 4 flight suits in my closet, two of them I received for free from my State Director who received a bunch of them from the Air Force. The other two I purchased from Ebay for less than $30 each. You honestly believe I should be willing and happy to give up free or very cheap Air Force flight suits and spend up to $200 or more each just so everyone wears the same flight suit??  Seriously?? My friend, I think that you move to the beat of a different drummer than I. Sorry, no disrespect but I think those are asinine arguments or simply misguided. But I respect your opinion.

[Eclipse]

^ A $200 flight suit is not required in most wings - if you feel the need to where a bag, the jumpsuit fills the bill quite nicely.

Others make the spurious argument about uniform confusion - I do not.  I frankly could care less what color things are or who's service
they emulate as long as they get the job done.

After 10+ years of background noise about what we should wear to help people on our own time and on our own nickel, I just want someone to make the decisions required to close the arguments once and for all.

If you are somehow "insulted" by the suggestion that we should be a uniform service, and to get there means there will be pain all around, including on those who were able to get their uniforms for "free" because they are mil-spec castoffs, I'm OK with that.

As someone who has spent a fair piece on uniforms in my time, I have no sympathy whatsoever for those who get them free, and then complain when someone suggests the gravy train might end to make us look more professional.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

If professional is what you want, there is no more professional looking uniform than the USAF type uniforms.