New CAWG Ground Team & UDF Uniform

[JC004]

Okay, I am confused. I have to wear the BBDU's but can't wear the blouse, only the Caltrans shirt. But I can wear a Blue M1 field jacket as outerwear? If I am wearing my CALTRANS shirt and an M1 BDU Winter Jacket, do I still have to wear the Caltrans vest? Do I sew CAP Bling to the Jacket, and with our without grade?

Major Lord

SILENCE!  HOW DARE YOU USE LOGIC.  APPLYING LOGIC TO ANY CAP UNIFORM PROCESS IS PROHIBITED.

Why does it even matter?  Clearly nobody would ever get lost in the Sierra Nevada.

[a2capt]

The only "niche" uniform I'm buying, well, have bought, is the green bag.  I'm not buying something else that has an even more limited use.

Basically, you need to have the CALTrans orange on, or the orange vest over whatever you have on.

[ZigZag911]

Anyone have a clue as to why CA EMA wants this?

[Jerry Jacobs]

Anyone have a clue as to why CA EMA wants this?

Probably because we are the only SAR organization that I have ever seen that wears camo.  Like it or not, but wearing orange actually makes sense for all the safety reasons.

[PA Guy]

Anyone have a clue as to why CA EMA wants this?

The majority of non CAP ground SAR teams in CA wear the orange shirt and the BDUs have been a source of conflict when working with those teams. In CA the county sheriff owns the ground in SAR matters and CAP ground teams operate at the pleasure of the sheriff so it makes sense to get along. The reality is that most of the local sheriffs don't need CAP ground teams. Their own teams far exceed anything CAP has to offer in terms of training and resources.

[a2capt]

This orange stuff isn't new either, it was being done and now finally got a regulation for it that is officially acknowledged. As you can see, it's very finite in when the uniform combination can be used. 

But if you take a look in the older thread about the controversial DF'ing equipment you will see photos that have had the CAP branch tapes 'shopped away, though they even were visible when the images were first published, and these go back several years.

Up to this era they were using the uniform combination at the base and for nearly any operations except flight crew and without it being written in any regulation or policy, telling folks they could not participate unless they adopted it, too.

..and they complain about participation. At least the current policy now strongly recommends it, but stops short of requiring it other than the orange reflective vest, or the orange shirt.

[FARRIER]

Colorado Wing, back in the 80's, ground teams used orange shirts, with name tape and CAP tape only. Worked fine.

[Pumbaa]

Anyone have a clue as to why CA EMA wants this?

Let's see BDU's = military
California=Land of Fruits and nuts...

[PHall]

Anyone have a clue as to why CA EMA wants this?

Because just about all of the various County Sheriff Search and Rescue Teams wear orange shirts already.
They're going for standardization.

And in California, per state law, the Sheriff of each County (all 58 of them) is responsible for all Search and Rescue activities in their county.
We operate in their county at their pleasure. So we try to make them happy.
CAP has been barred from doing SAR in certain counties in the past. And there's nothing CAP or even AFRCC can do about it either.

[RiverAux]

They were barred because of uniforms?

[PHall]

They were barred because somebody in CAP had a "run in" with the Sheriff Department SAR Team and the Sheriff decided to "eliminate" the problem.

In one county we had to wait several years until a new sheriff was elected before we were allowed to operate in their county again.

[RiverAux]

I'm confused as to just what purpose "standarization" in clothing worn by SAR teams does for anybody.  What harm is there in different SAR organizations having different uniforms?

Standardized training, sure.  But if one team would rather wear an orange vest than an orange shirt, what difference does that make to the effectiveness of the mission?

[JayT]

I'm confused as to just what purpose "standarization" in clothing worn by SAR teams does for anybody.  What harm is there in different SAR organizations having different uniforms?

Standardized training, sure.  But if one team would rather wear an orange vest than an orange shirt, what difference does that make to the effectiveness of the mission?

It doesn't matter what you, me, or anything in CAP thinks. It matters what the boys CAP is working under thinks.

[Major Lord]

Well. with the thousands of ground team personnel just sitting by the phone waiting for a mission, I am sure that by adding yet another layer of restrictions ( the latest having been the "grounding " of CAP Vans) we will have no trouble staffing missions.......oh wait, we can hardly do that now....never mind.......

Its gratifying to know though, that other agency's leaders must have had "Ken" dolls too, and have dedicated their lives to revolve around the next new costume that Mattel produces.

Major Lord

[wuzafuzz]

I have NO problem with the orange shirts, in fact I prefer them to orange vests.  However, I do find it entertaining that plenty of SAR organizations in CA do not wear the orange shirts or coats.  Is this "standard" only for wilderness SAR?  Plenty of USAR teams wear blue.  Do a search in Google images.  Some sheriff SAR teams wear khaki shirts, still more visible than camo, but not orange.  Case in point:  http://vcsar1.org/photos4.html  These folks are not sworn deputies, they are civilian volunteers.  Are they less "safe" than our CAP GSAR folks?  ;-)   Some SAR teams are all reserve deputies, like LA County, so they wear "ruggedized" sheriff uniforms but still look like cops.

CAWG can make their rule and it is probably best from a political standpoint to play well with other children.  Showing up for a ground search looking like a Christmas tree (green with bling) or Rambo doesn't help our image with the SAR community.  Of course professional conduct helps, but our members don't always provide that do they? 

If my wing still allowed GSAR to wear orange shirts I would do so in a heartbeat.  It's not appropriate for all CAP assignments, but for GSAR in the boonies it would be fine.

[wuzafuzz]

An interesting article regarding high visibility uniforms and safety.  http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_13312243 

[ZigZag911]

Cooperating with customers is one thing, having them mandate our uniform (orange shirts) is kind of extreme...if they required the vests, well, that's "gear" rather than uniform, strikes me as more reasonable.

Oh well, thanks for the explanations...strikes me as strange, but then, I live in New Jersey, which opens a whole other set of stories!

[Major Carrales]

These concepts beought forth here must be wreaking havoc with those people that want us to have subdued nametapes.   

[BGNightfall]

These concepts beought forth here must be wreaking havoc with those people that want us to have subdued nametapes.   

Nope.  Orange shirt with subdued nametapes would work just as well.   

[N Harmon]

These concepts beought forth here must be wreaking havoc with those people that want us to have subdued nametapes.   

Not really. The idea behind wanting subdued tapes with white lettering is because it doesn't look gaudy like the ultramarine tapes do. Similarly, navy blue tapes on the BBDUs.

I don't care about the orange shirt except that it carry navy blue tapes and insignia that match the pants. Of course, I'm sure the supplement means ultramarine tapes, and not "blue tapes".

The question here is whether having an additional uniform item provides enough extra safety to justify the cost, and the problem is the ones making that decision don't have to bear the cost.