Is the Hock Store really done?

[Ned]

So what if I can't buy a CDI badge anywhere other than Vanguard?

The problem is that if we continue to let the Hock and others skim off the cream (nametapes, etc), then VG cannot make a profit to subsidize the CDI badge at a reasonably affordable level.  The net result would be that VG would walk away from the contract and while we could buy nametapes at 1-800-nametaes, the CDI badge gets orphaned (along with most of the other badges, ribbons, and insignia.)

Although my service from VG has always been prompt, I understand that not everyone has had the same level of service.  Clearly there is room for improvement, but it makes no sense to toss the baby out with the bathwater.  The goal is to make sure all of our members can get the full range of insignia at reasonable prices.

Make sure you chain is made aware of VG service problems so they can be addressed.

[tdepp]

Perhaps the greedy comment was a bit much. Here is how I see it:

Vanguard is the sole licensee of CAP stuff. I'm not arguing that fact. That's a legitimate contract under the law.

We the members are required to buy our items from Vanguard. Vanguard jacked up their prices on CAP items beyond what the identical item in other parts of the site cost until they were called on it. Vanguard gave NHQ money. That's a kickback for driving business to them and they gouged us on prices. How is that not unethical? Where was the oversight of Vanguard?

The whole single supplier contract is a failed idea for this reason. They should allow anyone to produce CAP items and charge a percentage fee just like any other organization with IP to protect.

One person's kickback is another corporation's licensing royalty.  There's nothing illegal or improper about this arrangement.  It's done all the time in business and even non-profits where there is a valuable brand involved.  I would be ticked if CAP didn't protect its intellectual property rights and thought our IP assets weren't worth protecting and licensing. 

Again, people complain about paying extra to Vanguard and then they complain that Vanguard then provides some of that money back to CAP.  Maybe CAP can go to a nursery and find some of those money trees I've heard so much about and our financial problems would be solved.   

[davidsinn]

I appear to have argued myself into a corner. I'm going to give this one up as I've come up with a pretty good case of foot and mouth disease. My problem with this whole thing is I believe in the free market and NHQ is suppressing it. Yes, it's their right to do so but I still think it's a dumb idea.

I'm sorry for the crap I spouted.

[Cecil DP]

I appear to have argued myself into a corner. I'm going to give this one up as I've come up with a pretty good case of foot and mouth disease. My problem with this whole thing is I believe in the free market and NHQ is suppressing it. Yes, it's their right to do so but I still think it's a dumb idea.

I'm sorry for the crap I spouted.

There is a free market and this is part of it. Tom was selling contraband merchandise. It's no different than Gucci or MLB going after counterfeits.The fact that it's been ongoing for 40 years is irrevelent.

[Hawk200]

I appear to have argued myself into a corner. I'm going to give this one up as I've come up with a pretty good case of foot and mouth disease. My problem with this whole thing is I believe in the free market and NHQ is suppressing it. Yes, it's their right to do so but I still think it's a dumb idea.

Agreed. When there's only one game in town, everybody loses. Competition is a good thing, and it's better for the market in general, as it provides options in quality versus cost. It gets to the point where the only differences are cost.

[Rotorhead]

I appear to have argued myself into a corner. I'm going to give this one up as I've come up with a pretty good case of foot and mouth disease. My problem with this whole thing is I believe in the free market and NHQ is suppressing it. Yes, it's their right to do so but I still think it's a dumb idea.

Agreed. When there's only one game in town, everybody loses. Competition is a good thing, and it's better for the market in general, as it provides options in quality versus cost. It gets to the point where the only differences are cost.

I'd like to point out that if you go back to the pre-C&D-letter Hock Shop posts on this very board, there were lots of people saying that Tom's merchandise was of somewhat lower quality than VG's.

[Hawk200]

I'd like to point out that if you go back to the pre-C&D-letter Hock Shop posts on this very board, there were lots of people saying that Tom's merchandise was of somewhat lower quality than VG's.

So Tom was the only competition to Vanguard? Think about it.

[Major Lord]

Do we know what the actual percentage of profit CAP receives from the licensing agreement with VG, and how these monies are distributed? Were any payments made by Vanguard to CAP in advance to secure the licensing agreement, and how and where were those funds disposed of? Was there any attempt to put the contract out for bid, or was VG awarded a no-bid contract? Is this contract available for member review?

Major Lord

[JC004]

It is 6%.  This came from the former National Finance Officer.

[Eclipse]

It is 6%.  This came from the former National Finance Officer.

Is that on top of the lump-sum donations, or is that where those donations are coming from?

[JC004]

There are lump sum donations?  I got the impression the checks they mentioned that were cut to CAP were the 6%.  You'd have to ask the Colonel, though.  He'd know.  That's why I asked him the percentage a while back.

[alamrcn]

So, is National Headquarters breaking their exclusive agreement (which I've never seen) with Vanguard?


http://www.caphistory.org/museum_store_form.html

This patch wasn't made by, nor is it being sold by, Vanguard Industries. Who's going to put the legal hammer down on this?

[Eclipse]

There are lump sum donations?  I got the impression the checks they mentioned that were cut to CAP were the 6%.  You'd have to ask the Colonel, though.  He'd know.  That's why I asked him the percentage a while back.

I'm referring to the articles about the VG donations that went to HMRS.

[JC004]

Ace - Absolutely.  Those CAP history people should suffer.   

We are suffer Vanguard's exclusivity anyways...   

[JC004]

There are lump sum donations?  I got the impression the checks they mentioned that were cut to CAP were the 6%.  You'd have to ask the Colonel, though.  He'd know.  That's why I asked him the percentage a while back.

I'm referring to the articles about the VG donations that went to HMRS.

I thought they said the Vanguard royalties WERE going to those facilities.  You have to help me on this, I didn't follow it much.  I'm more annoyed by the fact that we BUY BACK items when we change uniforms.  Bad deal for Vanguard?  Of course not, but the question is why we change uniform items at random anyway and why our budget should take a hit for the National Board's games.

We may not even need to be asking where the money is going.  It's probably just going back to Vanguard for CAP to pay for its latest uniform change.

[Hawk200]

So, is National Headquarters breaking their exclusive agreement (which I've never seen) with Vanguard?


http://www.caphistory.org/museum_store_form.html

This patch wasn't made by, nor is it being sold by, Vanguard Industries. Who's going to put the legal hammer down on this?

I'd imagine that the Vanguard contract is for uniform insignia. As that isn't, it probably doesn't even figure.

[BillB]

Lets send a C&D letter to Jim Shaw for selling a patch that says CAP on it. Or can anyone make that patch and sell it with permission of the Mosley family (who lives 6 miles from me)

[Major Lord]

The Patches shown do not have the seal, full organization name, or logo of CAP that I could see, so its probably not trademarked or violating the (alleged) exclusivity contract with VG. CAP would have a pretty hard time claiming exclusive use of the word CAP!

Major Lord

[Pylon]

The Patches shown do not have the seal, full organization name, or logo of CAP that I could see, so its probably not trademarked or violating the (alleged) exclusivity contract with VG. CAP would have a pretty hard time claiming exclusive use of the word CAP!

Major Lord

Oh, but they do control rights to the abbreviation (and the law says they do).  Hence, why part of the products disappeared from the Hock included things like just the cutouts that said "CAP".

[FW]

There are lump sum donations?  I got the impression the checks they mentioned that were cut to CAP were the 6%.  You'd have to ask the Colonel, though.  He'd know.  That's why I asked him the percentage a while back.

Hey guys.  I just was checking in after a nice day at the beach when I saw this tidbit.  I do not know of any other "donations" from VG.  I only know of the 6% fee we get.  That doesn't mean VG doesn't kick in extra.  I don't have that information.   Well, back to the beach.....