Perhaps some of our resident photoshop wizards can take some of the suggestions that have been made for the insignia colors to be worn on it and put them in place for review and comment. Attached is an image of the ABU that should work well for this.
I tried but not with much lock.......
Not bad, it gives an idea of how the color looks against the pattern. New we just need some with the other ideas. Things like OD with white letters, OD with dark blue letters, dark blue with white, etc...
Too Much free time......
White on Navy
These are good. It helps everyone get a better idea of how the combinations look.
Lets see one with OD tapes and white letters, OD tapes with dark blue letters (as USAF wears on the BDU), tan tapes with white letters, and tan tapes with dark blue letters.
If we ever switch to the ABU I hope that the AF allows a color combination for the nametapes/badges/patches that looks decent. I know that they will want something that makes the CAP uniform distinctive from the AF uniform, but I hope it is well thought out.
I have my doubts that CAP will ever be in the ABU. I foresee us in the woodland BDU for sometime & then a switch to the BBDU. I personally think we need to be in the uniform of our parent service, but they don't ask my opinion!
If I were on the uniform committee I would recommend the ABU with the OD & blue tapes currently worn on the AF BDU. I think that would make our uniform distinctive enough & not look too silly loaded with all colored stuff.
Flag blue on ABU: ;D
(http://www.1800nametape.com/af-name-digi.jpg)
You could change the thread color to ultramarine for a little distinction/tradition.
If not those... I'd keep what we got.
I would go with white on navy.
It matches the insignia on the blue utility suit and looks professional without crowding the real AF. Also, there's enough color difference that you can read them at a distance.
Quote from: ddelaney103 on August 04, 2007, 05:24:07 PM
I would go with white on navy.
It matches the insignia on the blue utility suit and looks professional without crowding the real AF. Also, there's enough color difference that you can read them at a distance.
Ditto.
Yup Yup...I like the navy blue/white. Just enough contrast but not so much you look silly. And we can sew ours on, they dont need to be velcroed.
Here are a few more...
I'm not big on the gray but the others are ok. I like the OD with white letters. I don't think USAF would go for the black on OD since its a little too army looking. However, Dark blue on OD like USAF currently wears might work since the new ABU has an almost black looking blue on the camo background. Would be interesting to see some photoshop work ups of more on the ABU shirt.
Ok, let's try this with an open mind....
Since we have the grey already, the ABU really doesn't look bad with grey namestrips.
Another idea that popped into my head is.. what keeps us from using the same shaped insignia, but choose our own colors for it? A possibility is to change the gold/white to a non-traditional military color sticking with shades of blue, grey, etc...
See attached...
Thoughts?
Here are some grey shades with an attempt at a wing patch as well.
I kinda like it on the new pattern.
I like the blue on gray. Can you do white letters on OD and also Blue letters on OD?
I think either the blue on grey or the white on navy would be best.
If we're going to go to a new uniform, why not simply the BBDU? Come on now - let's apply the time-tested "KISS" philosophy to this issue. Easy to get, rather inexpensive, multiple suppliers, and not a cammo uniform on which bright blue insignia are placed.
Quote from: Ricochet13 on August 06, 2007, 10:54:56 PM
If we're going to go to a new uniform, why not simply the BBDU? Come on now - let's apply the time-tested "KISS" philosophy to this issue. Easy to get, rather inexpensive, multiple suppliers, and not a cammo uniform on which bright blue insignia are placed.
We argued that one already. The free uniforms from the military outweigh going solely to a uniform that everyone, mainly cadets, would have to purchase.
Quote from: jaybird512 link=topic=2532.msg46716#msg46716 date=
Quote from: Ricochet13 link=topic=2532.msg46715#msg46715 date=
If we're going to go to a new uniform, why not simply the BBDU? Come on now - let's apply the time-tested "KISS" philosophy to this issue. Easy to get, rather inexpensive, multiple suppliers, and not a cammo uniform on which bright blue insignia are placed.
We argued that one already. The free uniforms from the military outweigh going solely to a uniform that everyone, mainly cadets, would have to purchase.
Well, wasn't looking for an argument. Just stating what I feel is a better option. There is a DoD hold now on all BDU uniforms. Also survey your cadets, see how many have relied on DRMO or other surplus uniforms. A cadet in a BBDU will look just a sharp as one in surplus BDU's. Of course, as you say, you've already argued this so that's my take. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this issue.
Quote from: Ricochet13 on August 06, 2007, 11:06:44 PM
Quote from: jaybird512 link=topic=2532.msg46716#msg46716 date=
Quote from: Ricochet13 link=topic=2532.msg46715#msg46715 date=
If we're going to go to a new uniform, why not simply the BBDU? Come on now - let's apply the time-tested "KISS" philosophy to this issue. Easy to get, rather inexpensive, multiple suppliers, and not a cammo uniform on which bright blue insignia are placed.
We argued that one already. The free uniforms from the military outweigh going solely to a uniform that everyone, mainly cadets, would have to purchase.
Well, wasn't looking for an argument. Just stating what I feel is a better option. There is a DoD hold now on all BDU uniforms. Also survey your cadets, see how many have relied on DRMO or other surplus uniforms. A cadet in a BBDU will look just a sharp as one in surplus BDU's. Of course, as you say, you've already argued this so that's my take. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this issue.
This has already been beaten to death on other threads and is not the purpose of this one. If you would like further discussion on the issue, please take it to one of the other ABU threads. This is strictly about potential insignia for the ABU when CAP switches to it.
Quote from: LtCol White on August 06, 2007, 01:37:19 PM
I like the blue on gray. Can you do white letters on OD and also Blue letters on OD?
This is about as close as I could get to OD...
Quote from: jaybird512 on August 06, 2007, 10:59:33 PM
Quote from: Ricochet13 on August 06, 2007, 10:54:56 PM
If we're going to go to a new uniform, why not simply the BBDU? Come on now - let's apply the time-tested "KISS" philosophy to this issue. Easy to get, rather inexpensive, multiple suppliers, and not a cammo uniform on which bright blue insignia are placed.
We argued that one already. The free uniforms from the military outweigh going solely to a uniform that everyone, mainly cadets, would have to purchase.
I think your "free uniform" concept is overly generalized. Many folks, for whatever reasons, do not have free BDUs available. Also, the free ones I have seen have been mostly unserviceable, which is why they're free in the first place. I certainly wouldn't wear most of the "free" stuff I've seen available.
Quote from: jaybird512 on August 06, 2007, 11:32:19 PM
Quote from: LtCol White on August 06, 2007, 01:37:19 PM
I like the blue on gray. Can you do white letters on OD and also Blue letters on OD?
This is about as close as I could get to OD...
I would not go with OD. The ABU pattern is predominantly grey colors, and the insignia that the Air Force sews onto it are grey backgrounds. OD will clash, it just doesn't work with grey.
The Army had OD stuff on the ACU in the early days... Looked like [butt].
Having seen them in person, there is OD in the camo pattern. Even took one of the current USAF nametapes and placed in on the shirt and it does work.
Now, when doing the OD with blue letters, the rank has to match(any white rank must be blue and the gold would need to be toned down to the subdued version as well). You can't mix those 2. When using the white letters, you can still use the bright rank on the OD background.
Quote from: MIKE on August 07, 2007, 12:11:44 AM
The Army has OD stuff on the ACU in the early days... Looked like [butt].
But would u rather OD on the ABU or Neon blue that even Helen Keller can see?? ::)
Yes, I would rather keep what we have now than come up with something new and different that is not what the USAF is wearing on that particular uniform.
If we went to the OD on the ABU, USAF would not be wearing it on their ABU and the blue thread color would be different. The new ABU insignia is a midnight blue which is almost black v/s CAP using the current USAF blue which is easily seen as blue.
So we might as well keep what we got.
I would suggest we start to move to full color on navy for all of the uniforms: BDU, BBDU, utility uniform, flight suits (sage and blue) and the ABU when adopted. They look professional, are different from the AF and are easily readable.
In the end, though, CAP should have just one set of embroidered grade and tapes. Let's not get into the whole gray vs blue epaulets mess again.
I don't care what color it is as long as I can read it.
The current (non-abu) tapes I find are hard to read unless you are close.
Hoping that we get the honor of wearing the ABU, I would hope that we are allowed to have the same color tapes as the USAF. No more Blue and white or anything else out of place or garish.
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on August 07, 2007, 08:19:36 AM
Hoping that we get the honor of wearing the ABU, I would hope that we are allowed to have the same color tapes as the USAF. No more Blue and white or anything else out of place or garish.
ABU is pretty much a certainty. Wearing the same as USAF is probably unlikely. Just have to wait and see what USAF approves. Issue of the ABU's may come up at NB this week since the supply of BDU's at AAFES is becoming limited.
Quote from: LtCol White on August 07, 2007, 12:13:37 AM
Having seen them in person, there is OD in the camo pattern. Even took one of the current USAF nametapes and placed in on the shirt and it does work.
Now, when doing the OD with blue letters, the rank has to match(any white rank must be blue and the gold would need to be toned down to the subdued version as well). You can't mix those 2. When using the white letters, you can still use the bright rank on the OD background.
That's kinda what I was getting at before about changing the colors of the rank insignia to match. However, the whole reason we're not subdued now is because they want us different than the RM.
I don't think we're going to get away with using many darker shades because of the resemblance to the RM. I would love for them to find us something different than smurf blue and white though and this would be an excellent opportunity to get that done when we switch over.
Quote from: MIKE on August 07, 2007, 12:17:38 AM
Yes, I would rather keep what we have now than come up with something new and different that is not what the USAF is wearing on that particular uniform.
The AF doesn't currently seem to be wearing any 'smurfblue'...
Quote from: ddelaney103 on August 07, 2007, 12:59:19 AM
I would suggest we start to move to full color on navy for all of the uniforms: BDU, BBDU, utility uniform, flight suits (sage and blue) and the ABU when adopted. They look professional, are different from the AF and are easily readable.
In the end, though, CAP should have just one set of embroidered grade and tapes. Let's not get into the whole gray vs blue epaulets mess again.
That's what we're trying to do, or suggest, is get into one set of embroidery. My vote is for 'epaulet grey/white (or gold when appropriate)' for ABU nametapes, rank insignia, and specialty insignia. It would match the uniform well, match our other uniforms well, be different from the AF, and stand out enough to be noticeable.
Quote from: jaybird512 on August 07, 2007, 08:55:04 PM
Quote from: MIKE on August 07, 2007, 12:17:38 AM
Yes, I would rather keep what we have now than come up with something new and different that is not what the USAF is wearing on that particular uniform.
The AF doesn't currently seem to be wearing any 'smurfblue'...
White on Navy would work, and it would match Air Force stripes, which didn't look all that bad on BDU's. If the nametapes had been darker on BDU's they probably would have looked fine.
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on August 07, 2007, 08:19:36 AM
Hoping that we get the honor of wearing the ABU, I would hope that we are allowed to have the same color tapes as the USAF. No more Blue and white or anything else out of place or garish.
That is probably unlikely. The Air Force wants major visual differences so we don't get confused with their people. Darkening tapes is an easy option that falls inline with that desire, and still maintains major differences. "Ultramarine blue" just looks childish, like something you would see on those kids "uniforms" they sell in most military clothing stores.
Quote from: jaybird512 on August 07, 2007, 08:59:00 PM
Quote from: ddelaney103 on August 07, 2007, 12:59:19 AM
I would suggest we start to move to full color on navy for all of the uniforms: BDU, BBDU, utility uniform, flight suits (sage and blue) and the ABU when adopted. They look professional, are different from the AF and are easily readable.
In the end, though, CAP should have just one set of embroidered grade and tapes. Let's not get into the whole gray vs blue epaulets mess again.
That's what we're trying to do, or suggest, is get into one set of embroidery. My vote is for 'epaulet grey/white (or gold when appropriate)' for ABU nametapes, rank insignia, and specialty insignia. It would match the uniform well, match our other uniforms well, be different from the AF, and stand out enough to be noticeable.
I'd be all for your proposal (in fact, I wrote this up once) until I read Hawk's post.
He reminded me that we should try to match the AF NCO stripes we wear. It would be easier to go the white on navy route for the other stuff instead of having to come up with white on gray AF stripes.
Changing the stripe color would be very "old school" (CAP used red stripes instead of army olive) but also expensive.
Quote from: jaybird512 on August 07, 2007, 08:53:24 PM
Quote from: LtCol White on August 07, 2007, 12:13:37 AM
Having seen them in person, there is OD in the camo pattern. Even took one of the current USAF nametapes and placed in on the shirt and it does work.
Now, when doing the OD with blue letters, the rank has to match(any white rank must be blue and the gold would need to be toned down to the subdued version as well). You can't mix those 2. When using the white letters, you can still use the bright rank on the OD background.
That's kinda what I was getting at before about changing the colors of the rank insignia to match. However, the whole reason we're not subdued now is because they want us different than the RM.
I don't think we're going to get away with using many darker shades because of the resemblance to the RM. I would love for them to find us something different than smurf blue and white though and this would be an excellent opportunity to get that done when we switch over.
I don't think USAF would be opposed to the subdued based on converstions I have had with the appropriate USAF personnel. They're more interested in a visible difference from what USAF will be currently wearing. So, Blue on OD or White on OD is same rank and specialty insignia is a possibility.
Quote from: LtCol White on August 08, 2007, 01:55:45 PM
Quote from: jaybird512 on August 07, 2007, 08:53:24 PM
Quote from: LtCol White on August 07, 2007, 12:13:37 AM
Having seen them in person, there is OD in the camo pattern. Even took one of the current USAF nametapes and placed in on the shirt and it does work.
Now, when doing the OD with blue letters, the rank has to match(any white rank must be blue and the gold would need to be toned down to the subdued version as well). You can't mix those 2. When using the white letters, you can still use the bright rank on the OD background.
That's kinda what I was getting at before about changing the colors of the rank insignia to match. However, the whole reason we're not subdued now is because they want us different than the RM.
I don't think we're going to get away with using many darker shades because of the resemblance to the RM. I would love for them to find us something different than smurf blue and white though and this would be an excellent opportunity to get that done when we switch over.
I don't think USAF would be opposed to the subdued based on converstions I have had with the appropriate USAF personnel. They're more interested in a visible difference from what USAF will be currently wearing. So, Blue on OD or White on OD is same rank and specialty insignia is a possibility.
That would be great then... much better than our outdated current style.
Depends on if its midnight blue or ultramarine.
Midnight blue on OD is something I can accept.
How about just going with the ABU material and white letters.
OK, using a set of ABU's I received, I have put together some actual examples using a mixture of insignia I was able to come up with. Comments?
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa65/LtColWhite/Picture004.jpg)
Current CAP Insignia
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa65/LtColWhite/Picture003.jpg)
Current USAF subdued as on BDU's
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa65/LtColWhite/Picture002.jpg)
White on green background
Out of the three, I'd pick the first one... Since you don't have option four depicted. Flag bue on ABU/Gray.
Yeah, had to work with what I was able to piece together. Might try having some tapes made up in different colors to lay them out on it as well and I'll post those pics
What about doing white thread on existing ABU tapes instead of flag blue? Even more distinct than ultramarine. Also, current gold/white thread for grade insignia on tan backing and white thread for badges on tan backing. No patches authorized. Can someone do that as a sample?
Well I was working with what existed and that I had to actually place on the uniform. If I can get some samples otherwise I'll be happy to place them and photograph them for posting.
Although a bit hard to see in the photo, the white on OD green looks really good
I definitely like the second and third one. I could go with either. I just hope that we could get NHQ and AF to accept it.
Quote from: RogueLeader on August 30, 2007, 05:39:28 PM
I definitely like the second and third one. I could go with either. I just hope that we could get NHQ and AF to accept it.
I think you're fooling yourself if you believe we're getting anything other then white on blue.
If you believe that you can not change something, then you will not; but if you have the belief that what you want is desirable, all kinds of doors will open. Besides, I never said it was likely, or that it would be easy; I did say that is what I would like.
Quote from: RogueLeader on August 30, 2007, 06:07:30 PM
If you believe that you can not change something, then you will not; but if you have the belief that what you want is desirable, all kinds of doors will open. Besides, I never said it was likely, or that it would be easy; I did say that is what I would like.
You should know by now that some people are always negative
I like the second and third also. I'm with the group who believes this is the perfect time to update our colors with the uniform change. All we can do is try... to not look like smurfs.
I apologize for that post, it came a little harsher then I intended to.
Also, I like the white on blue, so I'm kinda protective of it.
I like the White on Green.
Actually I think we should use whatever the Air Force uses...afterall isn't that how we got the colors we use now with OD Fatigues?
The whole idea that we wear an Air Force uniform is a crock. We wear a uniform that looks similar to the Air Force - Blue pants, shirt, and hat. The similarity stops there.
Our BDUs are as much an Army uniform as they are an Air Force uniform.
We should push to be allowed to wear THE Air Force uniform as laid out in AFIs, a right earned by our forefathers in combat. Otherwise, we should go totally corporate and stop pretending we wear the same outfit.
::end rant::
Quote from: cnitas on August 30, 2007, 06:49:46 PM
I like the White on Green.
Actually I think we should use whatever the Air Force uses...afterall isn't that how we got the colors we use now with OD Fatigues?
The whole idea that we wear an Air Force uniform is a crock. We wear a uniform that looks similar to the Air Force - Blue pants, shirt, and hat. The similarity stops there.
Our BDUs are as much an Army uniform as they are an Air Force uniform.
We should push to be allowed to wear THE Air Force uniform as laid out in AFIs, a right earned by our forefathers in combat. Otherwise, we should go totally corporate and stop pretending we wear the same outfit.
::end rant::
No one's pretending anything. We wear a USAF style uniform, not a USAF uniform. That's how it's stated in the regs, that's how we all know it to be. Everyone knows it's not the same uniform because we aren't the same organization.
Our uniform changes with the Air Force's, not the Army's so your theory of our uniform being as much Army as Air Force isn't right. BDU's may have been the same for all services, but that in no way means we go wherever the Army goes with their uniforms. The Army is wearing the Army Combat Uniform (ACU). The Air Force started a transition ot the Airman Battle Uniform (ABU). CAP already has Air Force approval (probably includes nametapes) for wear of ABU when available, but NHQ are waiting for a good time to start the switch.
Quote from: cnitas on August 30, 2007, 06:49:46 PM
I like the White on Green.
Actually I think we should use whatever the Air Force uses...afterall isn't that how we got the colors we use now with OD Fatigues?
The whole idea that we wear an Air Force uniform is a crock. We wear a uniform that looks similar to the Air Force - Blue pants, shirt, and hat. The similarity stops there.
Our BDUs are as much an Army uniform as they are an Air Force uniform.
We should push to be allowed to wear THE Air Force uniform as laid out in AFIs, a right earned by our forefathers in combat. Otherwise, we should go totally corporate and stop pretending we wear the same outfit.
Guess we type at the same time huh. . . ;D
::end rant::
I would love to have the same colors that the AF have. We will need to have distinctive insignia and such as to avoid PCA rules. Even our "combat" forefathers never wore the exact same uniform. They were different as well. This is a continuation of what it has been. We do not have the RIGHT to wear
any uniform. It is a
privilege to wear a uniform. The AF tells us what we wear on their uniforms. And note that all CAPR's denote "AF Style" uniforms, not "AF" uniforms.
Well I was just thinking that the current AF nametapes for ABUs would look great with U.S. Civil Air Patrol in white thread. It would stand out very well and would decrease prices due to use of the same name/branch tapes as the Air Force and thus same producers. Of course, we'll still order only from Vanguard, but they will be selling those tapes too. It'll be easier for everyone and will provide us with an updated, modern, and professional image that the Air Force was going for when they designed their uniforms.
(I don't want anyone to comment on Vanguard or the "absurdness" of BDU's)
It'd be great if we could drop the "US" from Civil Air Patrol. I know, I know, not likely to happen. :sigh:
I'd like to see us go white letters on midnight blue - it's related to the current AF colors while different enough to be "AF style" instead of AF. Also, the contrast will make it easier to read. Finally, it will match the stripes for SM NCO's.
Officers and gentlemen, we're not the Air Force. We are barely even the Air Force Auxiliary. We have zero point no reason to wear identical badges and tapes as the Air Force.
Quote from: JThemann on August 30, 2007, 08:32:39 PM
Officers and gentlemen, we're not the Air Force. We are barely even the Air Force Auxiliary. We have zero point no reason to wear identical badges and tapes as the Air Force.
You may be 90% accurate however, we are still looking at a BDU shortage issue in the not to distant future. As responsible members (please no laughter) we must look at what options may be.
When the Air Force went from the OD Greens to the BDU's we followed, it is reason to believe that in 2011 we may follow the Air Force in the ABU as well.
We may be barely the Auxillary, but we still are the Auxillary.
Quote from: afgeo4 on August 30, 2007, 07:00:56 PM
We wear a USAF style uniform, not a USAF uniform. That's how it's stated in the regs, that's how we all know it to be. .
Even the manual disagrees with itself on that issue. In Para 1-8. e. it says the following:
"All uniform items must display a USAF certification label."
and
"Each uniform item must have this label sewn or stamped on permanently: "USAF CERTIFICATE NO _______. A sample of this item has been inspected and meets or exceeds the quality prescribed by AF Specification _____.""
If it's not an Air Force uniform, why does it have to have an Air Force certification label to be worn as a uniform item? It's an Air Force uniform, just has CAP distinctive insignia. Painting stripes on a horse doesn't make it a zebra.
Quote from: ddelaney103 on August 30, 2007, 07:42:52 PM
I'd like to see us go white letters on midnight blue - it's related to the current AF colors while different enough to be "AF style" instead of AF. Also, the contrast will make it easier to read. Finally, it will match the stripes for SM NCO's.
I have suggested this as well. I think it's probably the best bet. You can get a hold of navy blue tapes very easily, and the matching color aspect is important.
Quote from: JThemann on August 30, 2007, 08:32:39 PM
Officers and gentlemen, we're not the Air Force. We are barely even the Air Force Auxiliary. We have zero point no reason to wear identical badges and tapes as the Air Force.
Our biggest support is from the Air Force. CAP cannot function without Air Force sponsorship. To eliminate that would require a serious source of independant funding. And I don't know of any organization that would be inclined to fund something like CAP. Let's not discount ourselves, or else the Air Force may believe us, and try to eliminate support to us.
A corporate side of the house lets us handle other missions, and request compensation for those missions. CD is an example. The Air Force has no vested interest in it, so having the option of alternate work and funding is useful.
Something else to consider when addressing the forum at large, we do have female members. Keep them in mind. They're people too. Not implying that you're sexist, but you need to keep the total membership in mind.
Legally speaking, a military uniform is not the clothes. I can wear Woodland Camo all day long and never be arrested for impersonating a member of the military. Now, when I put on insignia, branch tapes and name tapes, then it is a military uniform. Same with the DCU, ACU, or ABU; I can wear those clothes all day and never get into legal trouble. However, if I were to been seen by a member of the military in plain ACU's, I just may end up tasting blood and teeth, or just catch an earful about how inappropriate it is for me to be wearing them.
I wonder what the wear policy for CAP will be with the ABUs in regards to patches. With the AF going with a "nametapes, rank, occupation badge, period" policy, will CAP follow suit and strip off the patches?
I would welcome a "clean" CAP uniform, but I have the feeling that there are many others with deep affinity for their squadron / wing / NCSA / Hawk Mountain / reverse flag patch that may not.
Quote from: JarakMaldon on August 31, 2007, 12:51:54 AM
I wonder what the wear policy for CAP will be with the ABUs in regards to patches. With the AF going with a "nametapes, rank, occupation badge, period" policy, will CAP follow suit and strip off the patches?
Gawd I hope so... and no [darn]ed org baseball caps.
Will be interesting to see. They may authorize patches as another way of making it distinct to CAP. I would not be surprised if a future COS USAF decides to bring back the patches for tradition reasons though.
I have more nametapes coming in different colors and will post the photos when I get them with the ABU shirt
Quote from: LtCol White on August 30, 2007, 03:07:41 PM
OK, using a set of ABU's I received, I have put together some actual examples using a mixture of insignia I was able to come up with. Comments?
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa65/LtColWhite/Picture004.jpg)
Current CAP Insignia
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa65/LtColWhite/Picture003.jpg)
Current USAF subdued as on BDU's
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa65/LtColWhite/Picture002.jpg)
White on green background
Number 3 is the winner in my book! I always though we should have worn the white thread over OD tape on the BDU's too.......... But that would have made too much sense...
but this also is coming from a guy, who as a cadet (during the switch from OG507's to BDU's and the mandatory orange vest in the field) said it did not make sense to go to camo uniforms just to put an Orange vest over them to reduce one's chances of being mistaken for a deer. And that we should either switch to Dark Blue BDU's.
Or have a SAR specific uniform.
Solid Orange BDU's, with skill badges and Name/Branch tapes on it being Dark Blue over Orange. And all other patches being Full color. A very Canadian AF SARTech looking uniform. (Pumpkin syndrome would be rampant though)
Yes... I advocated the BBDU's way back in 1990, and as a cadet Airmen too. Who says cadets would not like them, the OG's were not as comfortable as BDU's but they were sharp! The BBDU across the board would be just as sharp!
Personally I would like a clean uniform too. Too many patches gives me a headache.
Beside back in my day we did not wear a patch on every square inch of real estate we had, heck there was not even a Ground Team Badge back then, not until 1993, but we still saluted, said YES SIR!, and accomplished the mission. That and the pride of being good at what we did was enough back then.
Hum..... cadets that worked for the feeling of accomplishment and not to get a check in some box or a patch to show off...... oh never mind..... my age is going to start showing if I don't step down from my soap box, before I get all reminiscent.
Sorry not intending to high jack the thread.
Quote from: MIKE on August 31, 2007, 01:00:00 AM
Quote from: JarakMaldon on August 31, 2007, 12:51:54 AM
I wonder what the wear policy for CAP will be with the ABUs in regards to patches. With the AF going with a "nametapes, rank, occupation badge, period" policy, will CAP follow suit and strip off the patches?
Gawd I hope so... and no [darn]ed org baseball caps.
Agreed, but seriously folks, lets ditch nametapes with any white on them. Grey on the Green backing of option 3 above would look ok, but to me, white stands out alittle too much.
Option 3 - White on OD look really good to me. I'd love to see it done up with tapes and insignia, too. I'd also like to see the white on midnight blue version on ABUs. I think one of those two options would look really great and still offer us tons of distinctiveness comfortable for both sides of the house.
Does anyone really think that the organization is going to allow stocks of patches at Vanguard to go unsold?
(I'm not being sarcastic.)
I remember that USAF did the same thing 20+ years ago when it went from fatigues to BDU's. Give it time: the 'frosting' will come back.
I have heard rumor from a source at Vanguard that they are pushing CAP to get rid of the ultra marine blue because it is just so difficult to get ahold of these days, no one but CAP uses it.
I have heard from the same source that a midnight blue is being looked at. Of course this source is nothing more then a senior Vanguard rep that I talked to for a while at the last Wing conference. So ultimately CAP could decide to do anything, including sticking to ultra marine blue. Lets prey they don't.
I personally would like to see us have OD green tapes, the best option would be for Air Force to allow us to have the same tapes they wear on the ABU, but thats a perfect world kinda thing.
Quote from: DrJbdm on September 01, 2007, 05:49:31 PM
I personally would like to see us have OD green tapes...
I really don't understand why people want to put OD tapes on the ABU. We used the Air Force leftover tapes for decades (the white on blue), and now people just want to do it again (only with blue on green). Why the effort to move backwards?
I think the best option is OD tapes with white letters. It looks really good, is clearly not USAF, isn't electric, OD matches the green on the ABU well, and doesn't look like you're pretending to be something you're not.
I have some different tapes on the way and will post photos of them on the ABU when I get them this week.
Quote from: LtCol White on September 01, 2007, 06:50:18 PM
It looks really good.....OD matches the green on the ABU well.....
I don't think so, and I'd be willing to bet that I'm not the only one. The ABU is a predominantly grey uniform. It has no actual OD on it. You have one, I'm surprised that you can't see that.
Quote from: LtCol White on September 01, 2007, 06:50:18 PM...and doesn't look like you're pretending to be something you're not.
People think we're pretending anyway, any OD colors are going to reinforce that.
On another note, do you think the Air Force will do that? It is their uniform, they have a say in how it's configured. I don't think taking a step back is going to help.
Besides, woven tapes will probably be out soon enough, the newest concept is fabric strips from the uniform material itself. We probably won't get tiger stripe strips, but grey would be easy.
On yet another note, the bright colored patches look surprisingly good. The uniform itself is bright, so bright patches aren't so garish.
Perhaps the normal ABU background tapes, with white thread?
I know, I'm being an optimist, but it's definitely distinctive, yet doesn't make us look like we're a bunch of slapsticks.
I know, I know, too late..... ;D
Quote from: SJFedor on September 01, 2007, 08:14:05 PM
Perhaps the normal ABU background tapes, with white thread?
I know, I'm being an optimist, but it's definitely distinctive, yet doesn't make us look like we're a bunch of slapsticks.
I know, I know, too late..... ;D
I don't see that happening either. For one thing, with the brighter pattern, the white might not be that legible. Second, the Air Force gets the willies about CAP members looking too much like them.
We'll probably end up with something completely different that you can tell from 20 paces.
Such as ultramarine blue with white letters?
Quote from: Hawk200 on September 01, 2007, 07:57:39 PM
Quote from: LtCol White on September 01, 2007, 06:50:18 PM
It looks really good.....OD matches the green on the ABU well.....
I don't think so, and I'd be willing to bet that I'm not the only one. The ABU is a predominantly grey uniform. It has no actual OD on it. You have one, I'm surprised that you can't see that.
Quote from: LtCol White on September 01, 2007, 06:50:18 PM...and doesn't look like you're pretending to be something you're not.
People think we're pretending anyway, any OD colors are going to reinforce that.
On another note, do you think the Air Force will do that? It is their uniform, they have a say in how it's configured. I don't think taking a step back is going to help.
Besides, woven tapes will probably be out soon enough, the newest concept is fabric strips from the uniform material itself. We probably won't get tiger stripe strips, but grey would be easy.
On yet another note, the bright colored patches look surprisingly good. The uniform itself is bright, so bright patches aren't so garish.
I think you need your eyes checked. the uniform is green, gray and tan. And you're right, I have one. Its not predominately gray. The OD on white matches well with it and is distinctive.
There's some old threads I remember with varrious samples for this stuff.
I like the the idea of gray/OD slightly more than white/OD, but color grade on OD is commercially avail for SDFs & such. I do support using OD tapes/backgrounds versus ABU cause it's got a chance of getting approved. Plus, white/gray on a cammo background (lots of gray/tan) would be kind hard to read. Anything to get rid of electric glow in the dark blue though. White/Gray on Dark Blue (coast guard style) is worst case passable, but I wouldn't go to the expense of that change w/o getting to something that looks less embarassing.
Quote from: LtCol White on September 01, 2007, 10:11:59 PM
Quote from: Hawk200 on September 01, 2007, 07:57:39 PM
Quote from: LtCol White on September 01, 2007, 06:50:18 PM
It looks really good.....OD matches the green on the ABU well.....
I don't think so, and I'd be willing to bet that I'm not the only one. The ABU is a predominantly grey uniform. It has no actual OD on it. You have one, I'm surprised that you can't see that.
Quote from: LtCol White on September 01, 2007, 06:50:18 PM...and doesn't look like you're pretending to be something you're not.
People think we're pretending anyway, any OD colors are going to reinforce that.
On another note, do you think the Air Force will do that? It is their uniform, they have a say in how it's configured. I don't think taking a step back is going to help.
Besides, woven tapes will probably be out soon enough, the newest concept is fabric strips from the uniform material itself. We probably won't get tiger stripe strips, but grey would be easy.
On yet another note, the bright colored patches look surprisingly good. The uniform itself is bright, so bright patches aren't so garish.
I think you need your eyes checked. the uniform is green, gray and tan. And you're right, I have one. Its not predominately gray. The OD on white matches well with it and is distinctive.
I have better than 20/20 vision, and much better than average color differentiation. I can tell you for a fact that there is no OD in the pattern of the ABU or ACU. You can argue it all you wish, but it's not true.
The Army wore OD tapes on the ACU for awhile and it looked crappy. Looked a lot better after they put on fabric strip nametapes.
The two uniforms use three common colors, the Air Force added a fourth: slate blue. None of them are complimentary with OD. Be stubborn about it all you want, it's still a fact.
But if it will make you feel better, I'll withhold my opinion on it in the future.
Quote from: Hawk200 on September 02, 2007, 03:00:09 AM
Quote from: LtCol White on September 01, 2007, 10:11:59 PM
Quote from: Hawk200 on September 01, 2007, 07:57:39 PM
Quote from: LtCol White on September 01, 2007, 06:50:18 PM
It looks really good.....OD matches the green on the ABU well.....
I don't think so, and I'd be willing to bet that I'm not the only one. The ABU is a predominantly grey uniform. It has no actual OD on it. You have one, I'm surprised that you can't see that.
Quote from: LtCol White on September 01, 2007, 06:50:18 PM...and doesn't look like you're pretending to be something you're not.
People think we're pretending anyway, any OD colors are going to reinforce that.
On another note, do you think the Air Force will do that? It is their uniform, they have a say in how it's configured. I don't think taking a step back is going to help.
Besides, woven tapes will probably be out soon enough, the newest concept is fabric strips from the uniform material itself. We probably won't get tiger stripe strips, but grey would be easy.
On yet another note, the bright colored patches look surprisingly good. The uniform itself is bright, so bright patches aren't so garish.
I think you need your eyes checked. the uniform is green, gray and tan. And you're right, I have one. Its not predominately gray. The OD on white matches well with it and is distinctive.
I have better than 20/20 vision, and much better than average color differentiation. I can tell you for a fact that there is no OD in the pattern of the ABU or ACU. You can argue it all you wish, but it's not true.
The Army wore OD tapes on the ACU for awhile and it looked crappy. Looked a lot better after they put on fabric strip nametapes.
The two uniforms use three common colors, the Air Force added a fourth: slate blue. None of them are complimentary with OD. Be stubborn about it all you want, it's still a fact.
But if it will make you feel better, I'll withhold my opinion on it in the future.
Its not your opinion that i took issue with. It was the pissy tone you used in expressing it. Re-read what you wrote.
Quote from: LtCol White on September 02, 2007, 01:45:52 PM
Its not your opinion that i took issue with. It was the pissy tone you used in expressing it. Re-read what you wrote.
Just highlight what you consider pissy, send it to me PM, and I'll know what not to say in the future. Didn't think I was hurting anyones feelings, but I'm willing to accept that I might have. Just let me know what it was that bothered you, and I'll attempt to be more diplomatic in the future.
Quote from: Hawk200 on September 02, 2007, 06:56:41 PM
Quote from: LtCol White on September 02, 2007, 01:45:52 PM
Its not your opinion that i took issue with. It was the pissy tone you used in expressing it. Re-read what you wrote.
Just highlight what you consider pissy, send it to me PM, and I'll know what not to say in the future. Didn't think I was hurting anyones feelings, but I'm willing to accept that I might have. Just let me know what it was that bothered you, and I'll attempt to be more diplomatic in the future.
PM sent
So... I'm still for the grey strips with either white or green lettering. It would be different than the RM and still compliment the colors of the uniform.
Quote from: jaybird512 on September 02, 2007, 11:53:15 PM
So... I'm still for the grey strips with either white or green lettering. It would be different than the RM and still compliment the colors of the uniform.
I don't see Grey tapes being used on the CAP ABU. While the Name and Branch tapes on AF ABUs are Midnight blue on Digital Tiger, the other badges and grade insignia are Midnight Blue on Urban Grey. Why the AF did that I have no idea, but they did.
But Urban Grey Letters on Midnight blue cloth would be a decent compromise. Though I still like the White on OD the best.
You all are still looking at differing options.
If the AF is going for midnight blue on digital Tiger or Midnight Blue on Urban Grey then the CAP tapes should be one of those.
Tags that say Civil Air Patrol or -in a perfect world- US Air Force Aux should be enough to seperate us from the rest of the pack.
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on September 04, 2007, 09:27:56 PM
You all are still looking at differing options.
If the AF is going for midnight blue on digital Tiger or Midnight Blue on Urban Grey then the CAP tapes should be one of those.
Tags that say Civil Air Patrol or -in a perfect world- US Air Force Aux should be enough to seperate us from the rest of the pack.
You know, I got to thinking about the "Civil Air Patrol" versus "USAF Auxiliary" thing, and kinda came to a conclusion.
Our organizations name is "Civil Air Patrol". It's not "United States Air Force Auxiliary". Civil Air Patrol is
who we are, the United States Air Force Auxiliary is
what we are (more at some times, less at others).
Considering that we aren't actually the "USAF Auxiliary" all the time, it's probably more appropriate to have branch tapes that say "Civil Air Patrol", not "Air Force Auxiliary".
Quote from: Hawk200 on September 05, 2007, 12:24:03 AM
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on September 04, 2007, 09:27:56 PM
You all are still looking at differing options.
If the AF is going for midnight blue on digital Tiger or Midnight Blue on Urban Grey then the CAP tapes should be one of those.
Tags that say Civil Air Patrol or -in a perfect world- US Air Force Aux should be enough to seperate us from the rest of the pack.
You know, I got to thinking about the "Civil Air Patrol" versus "USAF Auxiliary" thing, and kinda came to a conclusion.
Our organizations name is "Civil Air Patrol". It's not "United States Air Force Auxiliary". Civil Air Patrol is who we are, the United States Air Force Auxiliary is what we are (more at some times, less at others).
Considering that we aren't actually the "USAF Auxiliary" all the time, it's probably more appropriate to have branch tapes that say "Civil Air Patrol", not "Air Force Auxiliary".
Hawk200 is exactly correct. How many times have you seen it written like this? "Civil Air Patrol, The Official Auxiliary of the US Air Force".
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on September 04, 2007, 09:27:56 PM
You all are still looking at differing options.
If the AF is going for midnight blue on digital Tiger or Midnight Blue on Urban Grey then the CAP tapes should be one of those.
Tags that say Civil Air Patrol or -in a perfect world- US Air Force Aux should be enough to seperate us from the rest of the pack.
This is something that is most likely to not be the choice of USAF for the ABU's we wear. Yes, in the past we wore the same tapes but just because it once was doesn't mean it will go back to that.
Personally, I think the tapes (no matter what color combo) should also match the rank and insignia. Different but professional (hopefully) is going to be the direction that USAF goes with this.
Something like white on green is very distinct but less obnoxious than the white on ultramarine blue. Same with some of the other suggestions on here. When considering the tapes, you need to consider how the rest of the package will look when its all put together.
Quote from: LtCol White on September 05, 2007, 01:03:21 AM
Personally, I think the tapes (no matter what color combo) should also match the rank and insignia. Different but professional (hopefully) is going to be the direction that USAF goes with this.
Got to agree with this one. I'm still wondering what the Air Force was thinking on that one. They made nametapes in tiger, why not badges & rank too?
At least they aren't going with tan nametapes on the ABU. Not kidding, it's actually in the 2 August 2006 copy of 36-2903.
Quote from: Hawk200 on September 05, 2007, 10:32:37 AM
Quote from: LtCol White on September 05, 2007, 01:03:21 AM
Personally, I think the tapes (no matter what color combo) should also match the rank and insignia. Different but professional (hopefully) is going to be the direction that USAF goes with this.
Got to agree with this one. I'm still wondering what the Air Force was thinking on that one. They made nametapes in tiger, why not badges & rank too?
At least they aren't going with tan nametapes on the ABU. Not kidding, it's actually in the 2 August 2006 copy of 36-2903.
I think the Tan tapes in the 2 August 2006 copy of 36-2903 was a hold over attempt on the part of the AF -uniform- overlords, as Tan tapes are what was authorized to be worn on the ACU by (based on their job/need) airmen that are attached to US Army units. Thankfully someone got their head partially unstuck
from their aft exhaust port and went with Urban Grey. I think over time, probably a very loooong time, but hopefully closer to the end of AEF 7's rotation than not, we might start to see changes made to the ABU.
As for the digital tiger tapes with urban grey badges/grade insignia, I think some zipper suited sun god, got the idea in his head that his ZSSG badge (wings) would not stand out enough against Digital Tiger. Which is funny after having seen AF badges on Digital Tiger they stand out just fine, and look much better than the Urban Grey.
OK, here are some updated photos of samples of the ABU with various versions of nametape colors.
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa65/LtColWhite/IMG_2484.jpg)
Current CAP
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa65/LtColWhite/IMG_2485.jpg)
White on OD
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa65/LtColWhite/IMG_2486.jpg)
Blue on OD (Current USAF Subdued)
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa65/LtColWhite/IMG_2487.jpg)
Blue on Tan
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa65/LtColWhite/IMG_2488.jpg)
White on Tan
^ FYI: The grade is postioned wrong on the collar.
Mike you're wrong, grade insignia is worn on BOTH sides, there is a policy letter on that
Quote from: MIKE on September 06, 2007, 10:24:43 PM
^ FYI: The grade is postioned wrong on the collar.
killjoy. :D
With respect to the tapes, since you went through the trouble of having them made (again, why did you do that?) I guess the least we could do is weigh in on it.
Although the White on OD doesn't actually look OD, (compared to blue on OD) it looks the best.
Whatever color that is as it's represented in the photo looks really good, despite it's distinctiveness, IMO. Almost like a darker value of the darkest pattern color. It's nice.
The tan tapes ...not so much.
Quote from: tedda on September 06, 2007, 10:52:26 PM
Quote from: MIKE on September 06, 2007, 10:24:43 PM
^ FYI: The grade is postioned wrong on the collar.
killjoy. :D
With respect to the tapes, since you went through the trouble of having them made (again, why did you do that?) I guess the least we could do is weigh in on it.
Although the White on OD doesn't actually look OD, (compared to blue on OD) it looks the best.
Whatever color that is as it's represented in the photo looks really good, despite it's distinctiveness, IMO. Almost like a darker value of the darkest pattern color. It's nice.
The tan tapes ...not so much.
The cost of the tapes is really nothing. Not a big deal. Thought I'd use the ABU's I have to give folks an idea of how some of the suggestions really look on the actual uniform. I have to say I think the white on OD looks the best as well.
My beef: Why do we have to come up with something new and distinctively different for this uniform? I could see going to a slightly darker blue to appease the Field Uniform wearers out there... After phasing out the old ultramarine by attrition. At least then you don't have to have two different color sets for the two uniforms.
The other option or perhaps non-option is to use the same tape and insignia colors as the USAF does for the ABU... Then members wearing ABUs can get their tapes and possibly grade from MCSS or elsewhere, but aviation badges and specialty insignia will need to be produced by Vanguard in flag blue on gray. To me this is the only legitimate total change for the ABU.
Quote from: MIKE on September 06, 2007, 11:43:30 PM
My beef: Why do we have to come up with something new and distinctively different for this uniform? I could see going to a slightly darker blue to appease the Field Uniform wearers out there... After phasing out the old ultramarine by attrition. At least then you don't have to have two different color sets for the two uniforms.
The other option or perhaps non-option is to use the same tape and insignia colors as the USAF does for the ABU... Then members wearing ABUs can get their tapes and possibly grade from MCSS or elsewhere, but aviation badges and specialty insignia will need to be produced by Vanguard in flag blue on gray. To me this is the only legitimate total change for the ABU.
Well during the phase in period you would have 2 uniforms anyway just as USAF has right now. Most people were expressing a desire for something not as extreme as the ultra blue. Navy blue is just as extreme although not as neon. I think you can pretty much rule out using the same as USAF. Its just not gonna happen IMO.
Of the latest batch of examples I like the white on OD though it actually looks more dark blue to me.
I'm still convinced white on navy is the way to go. This will allow the grade insignia on the blue flightsuit/jumpsuit to be used, reducing the number of colors of grade insignia. It would also allow us to use full color NCO stripes without looking odd.
All we would have to do is change the corp uniforms to white on navy (easy, as they're a NB/NEC decision) and allow white on navy on the AF flight suit (requires AF approval, but they'd probably go along and it would save some money) and all the work suits would have common grades and tapes.
The only thing that would be better is doing all of this on med gray and swapping the TPU blue epaulets for gray and we'd have a common thread running through out uniforms, as it were. Don't know what we'd do about the NCO stripes, though.
white on navy would look great on the current BDUs, but I'm not sure it would work well with the ABUs.
How about using what we have now. I mean come on.......when (and IF) the switch comes, I will rip my blue tapes off the BDU, and re-sew them onto the ABU. I would more than anything like to get rid of organizational ball caps at a NATIONAL level, and commanders being prohibited from allowing them to be worn. That would include ALL ORANGE hats, all ENCAMPMENT hats and all those other colored hats that serve no purpose than making certain groups stand out.
Sorry.......um ya, I say stick with the current tapes we have now.
Quote from: mikeylikey on September 07, 2007, 03:41:04 AM
How about using what we have now. I mean come on.......when (and IF) the switch comes, I will rip my blue tapes off the BDU, and re-sew them onto the ABU.....
Sorry.......um ya, I say stick with the current tapes we have now.
Then you end up with old tapes on a new uniform. Seen this done before, both CAP and military. It doesn't look very good. If you're going to buy new uniforms, buy new tapes. They're new anyway, so it won't matter what color they are.
Quote from: Hawk200 on September 07, 2007, 03:45:36 AM
Quote from: mikeylikey on September 07, 2007, 03:41:04 AM
How about using what we have now. I mean come on.......when (and IF) the switch comes, I will rip my blue tapes off the BDU, and re-sew them onto the ABU.....
Sorry.......um ya, I say stick with the current tapes we have now.
Then you end up with old tapes on a new uniform. Seen this done before, both CAP and military. It doesn't look very good. If you're going to buy new uniforms, buy new tapes. They're new anyway, so it won't matter what color they are.
He doesn't understand because his patches are Velcro now. Freaking army...
Quote from: JC004 on September 07, 2007, 09:00:53 AM
Quote from: Hawk200 on September 07, 2007, 03:45:36 AM
Quote from: mikeylikey on September 07, 2007, 03:41:04 AM
How about using what we have now. I mean come on.......when (and IF) the switch comes, I will rip my blue tapes off the BDU, and re-sew them onto the ABU.....
Sorry.......um ya, I say stick with the current tapes we have now.
Then you end up with old tapes on a new uniform. Seen this done before, both CAP and military. It doesn't look very good. If you're going to buy new uniforms, buy new tapes. They're new anyway, so it won't matter what color they are.
He doesn't understand because his patches are Velcro now. Freaking army...
My CAP uniforms don't use Velcro. Neither did the Air Force uniforms I wore. What is there that I don't understand?
I don't even like most of the Velcro on my Army uniforms, it's a pain.
Quote from: Hawk200 on September 07, 2007, 10:34:50 AM
Quote from: JC004 on September 07, 2007, 09:00:53 AM
He doesn't understand because his patches are Velcro now. Freaking army...
My CAP uniforms don't use Velcro. Neither did the Air Force uniforms I wore. What is there that I don't understand?
I don't even like most of the Velcro on my Army uniforms, it's a pain.
mikeylikey doesn't understand...not you. 8)
Quote from: JC004 on September 07, 2007, 01:53:03 PM
Quote from: Hawk200 on September 07, 2007, 10:34:50 AM
Quote from: JC004 on September 07, 2007, 09:00:53 AM
He doesn't understand because his patches are Velcro now. Freaking army...
My CAP uniforms don't use Velcro. Neither did the Air Force uniforms I wore. What is there that I don't understand?
I don't even like most of the Velcro on my Army uniforms, it's a pain.
mikeylikey doesn't understand...not you. 8)
Wow......I am confused now! Anyway, I will just velcro my patches onto my ABU's anyway. To hell with sewing them on.
From that latest batch, the white on OD look fairly sharp and sufficiently distinctive at a distinctive. That gets my vote.
and distinctive at a distance too. ;)
The green in the ABU is sage, not olive.
Quote from: Mustang on September 08, 2007, 06:57:52 AM
The green in the ABU is sage, not olive.
Actually, it's not even "sage", it's "foliage". The flighsuits are sage, which is a darker green (often referred to as "smoke green").
The two are easily confused, but if you see them together then it's pretty obvious. Some of the pilots here at my Guard unit have been wearing the flighsuit, but putting the ACU unit insignia on them. The foliage is a lot lighter, even brighter color.
Quote from: Hawk200 on September 13, 2007, 03:13:54 PM
Quote from: Mustang on September 08, 2007, 06:57:52 AM
The green in the ABU is sage, not olive.
Actually, it's not even "sage", it's "foliage". The flighsuits are sage, which is a darker green (often referred to as "smoke green").
The two are easily confused, but if you see them together then it's pretty obvious. Some of the pilots here at my Guard unit have been wearing the flighsuit, but putting the ACU unit insignia on them. The foliage is a lot lighter, even brighter color.
According to the Air Force, the color in the ABU
is sage. As far as I know, the flightsuit is olive, but that's semantics. BTW... ACU unit insignia? On CAP bags?
Quote from: afgeo4 on September 15, 2007, 08:04:25 PM
Quote from: Hawk200 on September 13, 2007, 03:13:54 PM
Quote from: Mustang on September 08, 2007, 06:57:52 AM
The green in the ABU is sage, not olive.
Actually, it's not even "sage", it's "foliage". The flighsuits are sage, which is a darker green (often referred to as "smoke green").
The two are easily confused, but if you see them together then it's pretty obvious. Some of the pilots here at my Guard unit have been wearing the flighsuit, but putting the ACU unit insignia on them. The foliage is a lot lighter, even brighter color.
According to the Air Force, the color in the ABU is sage. As far as I know, the flightsuit is olive, but that's semantics. BTW... ACU unit insignia? On CAP bags?
I suspect he's talking about an Army Guard aviation unit putting the ACU subdued patches instead of the old BDU subdued patches on the flightsuit. They look very different from each other.
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa65/LtColWhite/IMG_2485.jpg)
Quote from: BillB on September 06, 2007, 10:43:56 PM
Mike you're wrong, grade insignia is worn on BOTH sides, there is a policy letter on that
No, that's not what MIKE is talking about. He's saying that the grade insignia is not
positioned correctly (i.e. it's supposed to be placed 1 inch above bottom of collar and horizontal with collar).
Example:
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee67/matss256/BDURankPlacement.jpg)
Quote from: ♠ on September 16, 2007, 01:53:49 AM
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa65/LtColWhite/IMG_2485.jpg)
Quote from: BillB on September 06, 2007, 10:43:56 PM
Mike you're wrong, grade insignia is worn on BOTH sides, there is a policy letter on that
No, that's not what MIKE is talking about. He's saying that the grade insignia is not positioned correctly (i.e. it's supposed to be placed 1 inch above bottom of collar and horizontal with collar).
Example:
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee67/matss256/BDURankPlacement.jpg)
Honestly, it really doesnt matter anyway. The grade in the photos is just laid in place and not sewn on. Jeez... It was for illustation purposes for the photos.
That CAP ABU looks good! I hope that is what we go with. Enough supporting Vanguard with distinctive CAP crap, that we should be allowed to get anywhere.
Quote from: mikeylikey on September 16, 2007, 07:33:49 PM
That CAP ABU looks good! I hope that is what we go with. Enough supporting Vanguard with distinctive CAP crap, that we should be allowed to get anywhere.
I agree. It's not totally blinding to the eye, subtle , but yet different in our own personal way.
Quote from: ddelaney103 on September 16, 2007, 01:11:01 AM
I suspect he's talking about an Army Guard aviation unit putting the ACU subdued patches instead of the old BDU subdued patches on the flightsuit. They look very different from each other.
You'd be correct. The different shades of green are very obvious when seen that way. The flightsuit is "sage", the green used on Army patches is "foliage". When it comes to the military, color coordination seems to be very important. (Most of the time. ;D )
I really like that insignia/uniform combo. At least the tapes/rank are not on that eye blinding blue.
Quote from: Hawk200 on September 18, 2007, 01:43:00 AM
Quote from: ddelaney103 on September 16, 2007, 01:11:01 AM
I suspect he's talking about an Army Guard aviation unit putting the ACU subdued patches instead of the old BDU subdued patches on the flightsuit. They look very different from each other.
You'd be correct. The different shades of green are very obvious when seen that way. The flightsuit is "sage", the green used on Army patches is "foliage". When it comes to the military, color coordination seems to be very important. (Most of the time. ;D )
Usually in garrison. Every deployment I've seen from Desert Shield to OIF have been plagued by desert BDUs with woodland coats/rucks/tapes/helmet covers etc. I think the ACU has had a good effect on that... everyone seems pretty standardized now, for the most part.
The ABU is very similar in coloring to the ACU and all accessories to be used will be the ACU ones, so the colors should be matching or at least close. ABU just has some slate blue in it and the sage green boots (which Airmen can now wear with their BDUs and DCUs as well).
has anyone been able to either purchase or photoshop the standard ABU tiger stripe tapes with white lettering on them?