Well, here I am, all dressed up in my green zoom bag waiting to go to Cape Canaveral Air Force Station for my afternoon tour guide duty. While I was pulling on my hero-aviator suit, I noticed my leather name badge. The AF Space Command was urprised that we in the CAP still wear them.
Now, I recall that about a year ago the NB voted to authorize embroidered name badges. It went to the AF uniform board for approval, and there was some discussion at "Echelons Above Reality" regarding what color scheme would be approved for wear. Does anybody know where that issue stands now?
By the way, we are expecting a heavy load of tourists today. The new Space Shuttle Experience ride... the first motion ride at the Kennedy Space Center Visitors' Complex ever... is opening to the public today. We willprobably see a lot of folks taking the "Canaveral Then and Now" tour.
Kack,
Actualy embroidered name badges was approved by the NB years ago....here is the reply I got from NHQ last year...
The embroidered nametag was not submitted to the Air Force for approval. CAP approved the concept but never decided on a basic proposal to submit and the National Commander at the time did not wish to pursue it. There are some other issues with the flightsuit grade that are being addressed now. If I can answer any other questions for you please let me know.
SUSAN P. PARKER
Deputy Director, Membership Services
The other issue is...embroidered grade insignia for the green zoom bag was approved by the NB more than a year ago......It was sent to the Air Force for approval.....but haven't heard on that yet.
Smokey
Kach
Does the new exhibit at the cape mean you can wear CAP astronaut wings on your zoomie suit?
Quote from: BillB on May 25, 2007, 07:04:31 PM
Kach
Does the new exhibit at the cape mean you can wear CAP astronaut wings on your zoomie suit?
That's funny...
Quote from: Smokey on May 25, 2007, 05:40:47 PM
Kack,
Actualy embroidered name badges was approved by the NB years ago....here is the reply I got from NHQ last year...
The embroidered nametag was not submitted to the Air Force for approval. CAP approved the concept but never decided on a basic proposal to submit and the National Commander at the time did not wish to pursue it. There are some other issues with the flightsuit grade that are being addressed now. If I can answer any other questions for you please let me know.
SUSAN P. PARKER
Deputy Director, Membership Services
The other issue is...embroidered grade insignia for the green zoom bag was approved by the NB more than a year ago......It was sent to the Air Force for approval.....but haven't heard on that yet.
Smokey
Wow.....lets follow through with what we start.....or else don't waste time doing something you just give up on before completion!
Smurf and White would be fine by me...nothing radical, but a decent color scheme.
Royal Blue background, Gold edging and lettering and White wings.
Simple, basic and non-controversial.
I think blue background, yellow border, silver wings and writing is better. Matches the MAJCOM patch better
Quote from: LtCol White on May 25, 2007, 10:36:25 PM
I think blue background, yellow border, silver wings and writing is better. Matches the MAJCOM patch better
As Supreme Commander of the
US Civil Air Patrol, I approve this. Done.
Hey Kack,
Just wear your old bag and badges and have them put you in the 1960's "Then" exhibit... :D
I saw one CAP officer with a cloth name badge quite recently. Had read about it in the minutes and assumed it had been authorized. Interesting.
Quote from: LtCol White on May 25, 2007, 10:36:25 PM
I think blue background, yellow border, silver wings and writing is better. Matches the MAJCOM patch better
If you wanna have some fun with different color combinations. (http://www.nametags4u.com/catagories.html) They used to do CAP ASNPs until they got the dreaded C&D letter. I kind of like the ones where the badge(s), text and boarder are all the same color myself.
Any of our resident graphics wizards wanna work up some samples of color schemes for fun?
I am sure we will eventually be stuck with florescent blue, purple or pink
As long as the color glows in the dark too....
Perhaps gray flight suit nametags ;D
Quote from: PHall on May 25, 2007, 10:30:29 PM
Royal Blue background, Gold edging and lettering and White wings.
Simple, basic and non-controversial.
And also the
generic USAF standard. (See attached)
But I don't think there should be one nationwide standard. Colored nametags are a unit morale thing in the AF, with each squadron having its own standard, pulling the colors from their unit patch--and so I think it should be in CAP. Leave the color scheme up to individual units, to be approved by the wing commander, same as unit patches.
Quote from: Mustang on May 26, 2007, 01:37:04 AM
Quote from: PHall on May 25, 2007, 10:30:29 PM
Royal Blue background, Gold edging and lettering and White wings.
Simple, basic and non-controversial.
And also the generic USAF standard. (See attached)
But I don't think there should be one nationwide standard. Colored nametags are a unit morale thing in the AF, with each squadron having its own standard, pulling the colors from their unit patch--and so I think it should be in CAP. Leave the color scheme up to individual units, to be approved by the wing commander, same as unit patches.
Yes.....did we already forget the "one CAP" philosophy that was thrown on us not too long ago? "Get rid of wing patches, we are one CAP, not many seperate units".
I like the idea of leaving it up to the local units, or even the Wings to design the patches. However, it will be up to Vanguard, as they will dictate what we are to wear based on what over-stock surplus material they have to design the patches.
I say.......lets just run with a black with white lettering thing. While we are at it......lets get rid of the plastic crap on our shoulders. When did the military move away from that style anyway??
Quote from: mikeylikey on May 26, 2007, 03:10:43 AM
While we are at it......lets get rid of the plastic crap on our shoulders. When did the military move away from that style anyway??
About 15 years ago in 1992. At least that's when the Air Force did.
The NB did approve embroidered grade insignia for the green zoom bag but had to send it on to the Air Force for approval. As of now, I don't think the AF has said yeah or nay.
My vote is to let each Wing have their own color combo, but I agree, that's probably not going to happen given Vanguard's hold on CAP and the "one CAP" concept. The Ultramarine blue with white lettering and border would be fine I think.
Quote from: ELTHunter on May 26, 2007, 11:36:13 AM
My vote is to let each Wing have their own color combo, but I agree, that's probably not going to happen given Vanguard's hold on CAP and the "one CAP" concept. The Ultramarine blue with white lettering and border would be fine I think.
Texas Wing would probably have no problem getting 'em made in the colors of the Republic o' Texas flag! ;D
This program ALMOST got cancelled because of the fact that we were accused of "Wearing outdated items on the flight suit."
My new comback line should this issue arise again will be:
"The insignia items are not outdated for us. What do you expect from an organization whose airplanes all still have propellers?"
But the point is, the AF Space Command wants us to look as much like them as possible... they want the integration to be seamless. It came as a genuine surprise that the CAP did not change their uniforms automatically when the AF changed their regulations.
Which brings up a point. Why couldn't the Air Force Uniform Manual simply include CAP? We could establish a regulation that the AF-style uniform was to be worn IAW the AF Regulation, and leave it at that. The AF could prescribe the CAP/AF uniform, and we would be relieved of this cumbersome process of making a regulatory change, then seeking approval for that change.
Add that as # 567 on the "To-Do" list for when I'm the National Commander.
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on May 26, 2007, 12:49:57 PM
Quote from: ELTHunter on May 26, 2007, 11:36:13 AM
My vote is to let each Wing have their own color combo, but I agree, that's probably not going to happen given Vanguard's hold on CAP and the "one CAP" concept. The Ultramarine blue with white lettering and border would be fine I think.
Texas Wing would probably have no problem getting 'em made in the colors of the Republic o' Texas flag! ;D
From what I've heard, Texas has had those for a while. Probably kept lowkey, so as to avoid hassles.
I think the idea of a wing standard embroidered flightsuit nametag is a good one. It would be easy for a wing to standardize, and order a large number of "blanks", preferably with a number of them already with the various wings/badges on them. The units could take them to any local embroidery shop, and have the name and rank embroidered. And a bulk order would be far cheaper.
Not to mentiion, I hate the wing patch being worn in place of a squadron patch on flightsuits. Not everyone is assigned directly to the wing staff, why should they wear the flightsuit as if they were? A wing nameplate would solve that nicely.
If the bag has grade on it, you only need a name on the cloth ASNP. No grade or CAP.
Quote from: MIKE on May 26, 2007, 02:51:49 PM
If the bag has grade on it, you only need a name on the cloth ASNP. No grade or CAP.
Good point. Which would make it far easier to produce. Simple designs with a rendering of the wing's flag to the side, or include elements of their wing patch, would be nice and would look sharp too. Just order a large batch of "blanks" with all the various wings on some of them would be too easy.
Why standardize at the wing level? Why not allow squadrons to specify their own standard as the AF does?
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on May 26, 2007, 12:49:57 PM
Texas Wing would probably have no problem getting 'em made in the colors of the Republic o' Texas flag! ;D
Might want to clear that with the Texas ANG first since that's what they wear.
Quote from: Mustang on May 27, 2007, 03:18:01 AM
Why standardize at the wing level? Why not allow squadrons to specify their own standard as the AF does?
Simple. Cost. A small order of fifty would be far more expensive than an order of five hundred. I can appreciate mirroring the Air Force, but there must be a point of practicality, in this case, money.
Even individually, those embroidered nametags go up to $15
each. With an order of 500, it could be down to $7 or $8 apiece, maybe even less.
Quote from: Hawk200 on May 27, 2007, 11:38:39 AM
Quote from: Mustang on May 27, 2007, 03:18:01 AM
Why standardize at the wing level? Why not allow squadrons to specify their own standard as the AF does?
Simple. Cost. A small order of fifty would be far more expensive than an order of five hundred. I can appreciate mirroring the Air Force, but there must be a point of practicality, in this case, money.
Even individually, those embroidered nametags go up to $15 each. With an order of 500, it could be down to $7 or $8 apiece, maybe even less.
Well the solution would be for NHQ to authorize them, USAF approve them, and the NHQ select one of the vendors out there who make a quality product to be the official supplier for them. Vanguard does not produce these for USAF so there shouldnt be an issue of someone else producing them for us.
Quote from: LtCol White on May 27, 2007, 02:23:35 PM
Quote from: Hawk200 on May 27, 2007, 11:38:39 AM
Quote from: Mustang on May 27, 2007, 03:18:01 AM
Why standardize at the wing level? Why not allow squadrons to specify their own standard as the AF does?
Simple. Cost. A small order of fifty would be far more expensive than an order of five hundred. I can appreciate mirroring the Air Force, but there must be a point of practicality, in this case, money.
Even individually, those embroidered nametags go up to $15 each. With an order of 500, it could be down to $7 or $8 apiece, maybe even less.
Well the solution would be for NHQ to authorize them, USAF approve them, and the NHQ select one of the vendors out there who make a quality product to be the official supplier for them. Vanguard does not produce these for USAF so there shouldnt be an issue of someone else producing them for us.
If Vanguard made them, the Velcro(R) would be on the front, they would take 2 years to produce, and cost $20 to ship.
Quote from: JC004 on May 27, 2007, 02:34:45 PM
Quote from: LtCol White on May 27, 2007, 02:23:35 PM
Quote from: Hawk200 on May 27, 2007, 11:38:39 AM
Quote from: Mustang on May 27, 2007, 03:18:01 AM
Why standardize at the wing level? Why not allow squadrons to specify their own standard as the AF does?
Simple. Cost. A small order of fifty would be far more expensive than an order of five hundred. I can appreciate mirroring the Air Force, but there must be a point of practicality, in this case, money.
Even individually, those embroidered nametags go up to $15 each. With an order of 500, it could be down to $7 or $8 apiece, maybe even less.
Well the solution would be for NHQ to authorize them, USAF approve them, and the NHQ select one of the vendors out there who make a quality product to be the official supplier for them. Vanguard does not produce these for USAF so there shouldnt be an issue of someone else producing them for us.
If Vanguard made them, the Velcro(R) would be on the front, they would take 2 years to produce, and cost $20 to ship.
Velcro (R) is no loger a registered trademak name. It is simply Velcro. I met the guy who took the "hook and loop" fastners and cut them into strips, packaged them and sold them. He is now a multi-millionaire. Got to love those stoned hippies inventing something that already existed! I believe he said it was in 1972.
Quote from: mikeylikey on May 27, 2007, 08:14:49 PM
Quote from: JC004 on May 27, 2007, 02:34:45 PM
Quote from: LtCol White on May 27, 2007, 02:23:35 PM
Quote from: Hawk200 on May 27, 2007, 11:38:39 AM
Quote from: Mustang on May 27, 2007, 03:18:01 AM
Why standardize at the wing level? Why not allow squadrons to specify their own standard as the AF does?
Simple. Cost. A small order of fifty would be far more expensive than an order of five hundred. I can appreciate mirroring the Air Force, but there must be a point of practicality, in this case, money.
Even individually, those embroidered nametags go up to $15 each. With an order of 500, it could be down to $7 or $8 apiece, maybe even less.
Well the solution would be for NHQ to authorize them, USAF approve them, and the NHQ select one of the vendors out there who make a quality product to be the official supplier for them. Vanguard does not produce these for USAF so there shouldnt be an issue of someone else producing them for us.
If Vanguard made them, the Velcro(R) would be on the front, they would take 2 years to produce, and cost $20 to ship.
Velcro (R) is no loger a registered trademak name. It is simply Velcro. I met the guy who took the "hook and loop" fastners and cut them into strips, packaged them and sold them. He is now a multi-millionaire. Got to love those stoned hippies inventing something that already existed! I believe he said it was in 1972.
Today, the VELCRO mark is the subject of more than 300 trademark registrations in over 160 countries.Shush.
Quote from: Hawk200 on May 27, 2007, 11:38:39 AM
Quote from: Mustang on May 27, 2007, 03:18:01 AM
Why standardize at the wing level? Why not allow squadrons to specify their own standard as the AF does?
Simple. Cost. A small order of fifty would be far more expensive than an order of five hundred. I can appreciate mirroring the Air Force, but there must be a point of practicality, in this case, money.
Even individually, those embroidered nametags go up to $15 each. With an order of 500, it could be down to $7 or $8 apiece, maybe even less.
It may surprise you to learn, then, that the
one-off nametag in my earlier post cost less than $10. We don't need to do this in bulk to make it reasonable. The cost savings wouldn't be that much unless you're talking custom designs on those tags, like a miniature version of the squadron patch or aircraft silhouette, because you'll still have to have names embroidered individually--and that's where you'll get creamed, because the most labor-intensive finishing work can't be done until AFTER the name's been embroidered.
And to be honest, I really couldn't care less about wing-level identity. I'd far prefer units to maintain their own identity and esprit de corps.
Quote from: LtCol White on May 27, 2007, 02:23:35 PMWell the solution would be for NHQ to authorize them, USAF approve them, and the NHQ select one of the vendors out there who make a quality product to be the official supplier for them.
This "official vendor" thing is why stuff from Vanguard is so expensive; they have to pay NHQ a royalty on EVERY CAP ITEM THEY SELL--a cost which gets passed onto the consumer (us).
Well that is how it will have to work. NHQ isnt going to say "Whoever wants to make these for our people can do it" since they have made a big deal over trademark issues. The point is that if they go to someone who already produces them and provides them with the designs for the wings, it wont matter how few are sold, the cost will be the same. This would allow the freedom of Squadrons or Wings to be unique by choosing particular color combinations.
Realizing that we are discussing something which:
1. Has not yet been authorized, and
2. Probably will never be authorized because someone dropped the ball...
For my 2 cents I would prefer the "One CAP" approach. One color scheme for all of us.
I personally liked the idea of getting rid of wing patches, and wish that wing kings were not left the option of requiring them on BDU's.
Since the ball was dropped......anyone out there got an "in" with Wing CC/Region CC/ Gen Coulter, or even TP to get someone off their butt to forward the already approved (by NB) name tag request to the Air Force??
As far as differences in styles, colors.......it is no big deal. The companies that make the name tags for the AF have a large stock and it's no big deal. They can make just about any color combo and get it to you in few days at less than $10 a shot.
Quote from: Smokey on May 27, 2007, 10:43:32 PM
...
As far as differences in styles, colors.......it is no big deal. The companies that make the name tags for the AF have a large stock and it's no big deal. They can make just about any color combo and get it to you in few days at less than $10 a shot.
What they should do (rather than have our friends at Vanguard produce them), is have these companies submit proofs to NHQ with the CAP wings, and we can have a number of approved vendors. I believe the Coast Guard Auxiliary does something like that, having multiple approved sources.
I believe the ball was "dropped" because Susie Parker has made it known she does not like embroidered nametags.
Why an NHQ employee who's not a volunteer member even has a say in the matter is beyond me, but that's what I understand.
Quote from: LtCol White on May 27, 2007, 09:38:05 PM
Well that is how it will have to work. NHQ isnt going to say "Whoever wants to make these for our people can do it" since they have made a big deal over trademark issues. The point is that if they go to someone who already produces them and provides them with the designs for the wings, it wont matter how few are sold, the cost will be the same.
No, because the place making those tags now is not paying CAP a royalty (which is why I won't publish their name here). The ONLY reason NHQ has made a stink about trademarks and whatnot is they think CAP should be entitled to a royalty from every purchase of CAP merchandise. This is sorely nearsighted thinking, NHQ should do whatever they can to MINIMIZE the cost to the CAP volunteers, not pad everything with additional profit for CAP. And I don't care if they are (allegedly) putting that money into CAP facilities or not,
they should not look to the membership as a revenue center.
Quote from: Mustang on May 28, 2007, 01:09:04 AM
I believe the ball was "dropped" because Susie Parker has made it known she does not like embroidered nametags.
Why an NHQ employee who's not a volunteer member even has a say in the matter is beyond me, but that's what I understand.
Great!
Now the CHEERLEADERS are calling the plays on the field now.
Quote from: Mustang on May 28, 2007, 01:15:32 AM
Quote from: LtCol White on May 27, 2007, 09:38:05 PM
Well that is how it will have to work. NHQ isnt going to say "Whoever wants to make these for our people can do it" since they have made a big deal over trademark issues. The point is that if they go to someone who already produces them and provides them with the designs for the wings, it wont matter how few are sold, the cost will be the same.
No, because the place making those tags now is not paying CAP a royalty (which is why I won't publish their name here). The ONLY reason NHQ has made a stink about trademarks and whatnot is they think CAP should be entitled to a royalty from every purchase of CAP merchandise. This is sorely nearsighted thinking, NHQ should do whatever they can to MINIMIZE the cost to the CAP volunteers, not pad everything with additional profit for CAP. And I don't care if they are (allegedly) putting that money into CAP facilities or not, they should not look to the membership as a revenue center.
Your SIR are correct! They will take as much as they can from the membership, and when they find a way to take money from non-members they will as well!!
Quote from: Mustang on May 28, 2007, 01:15:32 AM
Quote from: LtCol White on May 27, 2007, 09:38:05 PM
Well that is how it will have to work. NHQ isnt going to say "Whoever wants to make these for our people can do it" since they have made a big deal over trademark issues. The point is that if they go to someone who already produces them and provides them with the designs for the wings, it wont matter how few are sold, the cost will be the same.
No, because the place making those tags now is not paying CAP a royalty (which is why I won't publish their name here). The ONLY reason NHQ has made a stink about trademarks and whatnot is they think CAP should be entitled to a royalty from every purchase of CAP merchandise. This is sorely nearsighted thinking, NHQ should do whatever they can to MINIMIZE the cost to the CAP volunteers, not pad everything with additional profit for CAP. And I don't care if they are (allegedly) putting that money into CAP facilities or not, they should not look to the membership as a revenue center.
I'm familiar with the company. They do really 1st class work. I agree there is prob a royalty issue which I think is stupid. But I'm sure NHQ won't authorize it without "approved" vendor/vendors. We all agree that there are things that SHOULD and SHOULDN't be done.
Quote from: LtCol White on May 28, 2007, 08:06:32 PM
Quote from: Mustang on May 28, 2007, 01:15:32 AM
Quote from: LtCol White on May 27, 2007, 09:38:05 PM
Well that is how it will have to work. NHQ isnt going to say "Whoever wants to make these for our people can do it" since they have made a big deal over trademark issues. The point is that if they go to someone who already produces them and provides them with the designs for the wings, it wont matter how few are sold, the cost will be the same.
No, because the place making those tags now is not paying CAP a royalty (which is why I won't publish their name here). The ONLY reason NHQ has made a stink about trademarks and whatnot is they think CAP should be entitled to a royalty from every purchase of CAP merchandise. This is sorely nearsighted thinking, NHQ should do whatever they can to MINIMIZE the cost to the CAP volunteers, not pad everything with additional profit for CAP. And I don't care if they are (allegedly) putting that money into CAP facilities or not, they should not look to the membership as a revenue center.
I'm familiar with the company. They do really 1st class work. I agree there is prob a royalty issue which I think is stupid. But I'm sure NHQ won't authorize it without "approved" vendor/vendors. We all agree that there are things that SHOULD and SHOULDN't be done.
I am having some shirts made up with the CAP emblem on the chest, maybe I should be worried about the black van showing up and demanding a royalty payment.
Quote from: ELTHunter on May 28, 2007, 11:21:26 PM
Quote from: LtCol White on May 28, 2007, 08:06:32 PM
Quote from: Mustang on May 28, 2007, 01:15:32 AM
Quote from: LtCol White on May 27, 2007, 09:38:05 PM
Well that is how it will have to work. NHQ isnt going to say "Whoever wants to make these for our people can do it" since they have made a big deal over trademark issues. The point is that if they go to someone who already produces them and provides them with the designs for the wings, it wont matter how few are sold, the cost will be the same.
No, because the place making those tags now is not paying CAP a royalty (which is why I won't publish their name here). The ONLY reason NHQ has made a stink about trademarks and whatnot is they think CAP should be entitled to a royalty from every purchase of CAP merchandise. This is sorely nearsighted thinking, NHQ should do whatever they can to MINIMIZE the cost to the CAP volunteers, not pad everything with additional profit for CAP. And I don't care if they are (allegedly) putting that money into CAP facilities or not, they should not look to the membership as a revenue center.
I'm familiar with the company. They do really 1st class work. I agree there is prob a royalty issue which I think is stupid. But I'm sure NHQ won't authorize it without "approved" vendor/vendors. We all agree that there are things that SHOULD and SHOULDN't be done.
I am having some shirts made up with the CAP emblem on the chest, maybe I should be worried about the black van showing up and demanding a royalty payment.
Be afraid! Be very afraid!
"Vroom, vroom......screach...... knock, knock, knock !!!!"
Quote from: LtCol White on May 28, 2007, 11:37:23 PM
"Vroom, vroom......screach...... knock, knock, knock !!!!"
You mean, they actually take the time to knock?
I figured they'd just bust in, and snatch you...
Quote from: PhoenixCadet on May 29, 2007, 01:11:27 AM
Quote from: LtCol White on May 28, 2007, 11:37:23 PM
"Vroom, vroom......screach...... knock, knock, knock !!!!"
You mean, they actually take the time to knock?
I figured they'd just bust in, and snatch you...
Well, even the Nazis knocked about 30 seconds before they kicked in your door. The black van personnel have been sent to sensitivity training so as to appear slighltly different from their black van personnel of 60yrs ago. LOL
Quote from: RiverAux on May 25, 2007, 11:34:07 PM
I saw one CAP officer with a cloth name badge quite recently. Had read about it in the minutes and assumed it had been authorized. Interesting.
Yeah... I recently saw an officer with a blue and white embroidered tag on his uniform too. Apparently he saw it in the minutes and thought it was authorized too... I think it said "U.S. Civil Air Patrol"
Quote from: mikeylikey on May 28, 2007, 04:33:38 PM
Quote from: Mustang on May 28, 2007, 01:15:32 AM
Quote from: LtCol White on May 27, 2007, 09:38:05 PM
Well that is how it will have to work. NHQ isnt going to say "Whoever wants to make these for our people can do it" since they have made a big deal over trademark issues. The point is that if they go to someone who already produces them and provides them with the designs for the wings, it wont matter how few are sold, the cost will be the same.
No, because the place making those tags now is not paying CAP a royalty (which is why I won't publish their name here). The ONLY reason NHQ has made a stink about trademarks and whatnot is they think CAP should be entitled to a royalty from every purchase of CAP merchandise. This is sorely nearsighted thinking, NHQ should do whatever they can to MINIMIZE the cost to the CAP volunteers, not pad everything with additional profit for CAP. And I don't care if they are (allegedly) putting that money into CAP facilities or not, they should not look to the membership as a revenue center.
Your SIR are correct! They will take as much as they can from the membership, and when they find a way to take money from non-members they will as well!!
Okay you two... explain membership dues. ;)
I cannot put enough emphasis into this: if the alternative to the leather name patch is ultramarine then stick with the leather.
If the alternative to the plastic encased grade is white on ultramarine, then by all means KEEP the plastic.
The ultramarine is HORENDOUS to look at. Now if it were a darker color fine, but any 'ultra' color needs to stay off a uniform.
- Personally I feel the best solution is a subdued tape reading either
USAF Aux or even Civil Air Patrol, as long as its subdued.
- not as a power grab thing, but for 'fashion sense' (for lack of a better term)
Just my two cents.
Take a page from the RAFVR(T). Except it would seem that they are starting to adopt more distinctive Air Cadets insignia for their CS95 (BDU).
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on May 29, 2007, 03:48:08 AM
I cannot put enough emphasis into this: if the alternative to the leather name patch is ultramarine then stick with the leather.
If the alternative to the plastic encased grade is white on ultramarine, then by all means KEEP the plastic.
The ultramarine is HORENDOUS to look at. Now if it were a darker color fine, but any 'ultra' color needs to stay off a uniform.
- Personally I feel the best solution is a subdued tape reading either
USAF Aux or even Civil Air Patrol, as long as its subdued.
- not as a power grab thing, but for 'fashion sense' (for lack of a better term)
Just my two cents.
But the AF generic aircrew style namepatch is blue...
Quote from: JC004 on May 29, 2007, 04:02:48 AM
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on May 29, 2007, 03:48:08 AM
I cannot put enough emphasis into this: if the alternative to the leather name patch is ultramarine then stick with the leather.
If the alternative to the plastic encased grade is white on ultramarine, then by all means KEEP the plastic.
The ultramarine is HORENDOUS to look at. Now if it were a darker color fine, but any 'ultra' color needs to stay off a uniform.
- Personally I feel the best solution is a subdued tape reading either
USAF Aux or even Civil Air Patrol, as long as its subdued.
- not as a power grab thing, but for 'fashion sense' (for lack of a better term)
Just my two cents.
But the AF generic aircrew style namepatch is blue...
Yes, its Royal Blue and white and it looks fine. I said no to ULTRAMARINE blue.
If we have the AF patch with CAP or USAF Aux added in somewhere
(not USCAP) I would be very happy.
Is it ALL AF patches though? When I was in AFROTC the patches had "solo wings" listed "CADET'" as rank and was Maroon in color. -- though that could just be ROTC
And I just wanted to state my reason for my dislike of " USCAP" - It makes us seem like our own little entity. When really we arent, we are a very tiny part of the USAF. So to me USAF-Aux seems the best and CAP follows - since thats the name Congress gave us.
JMHO
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on May 29, 2007, 04:27:09 AM
Quote from: JC004 on May 29, 2007, 04:02:48 AM
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on May 29, 2007, 03:48:08 AM
I cannot put enough emphasis into this: if the alternative to the leather name patch is ultramarine then stick with the leather.
If the alternative to the plastic encased grade is white on ultramarine, then by all means KEEP the plastic.
The ultramarine is HORENDOUS to look at. Now if it were a darker color fine, but any 'ultra' color needs to stay off a uniform.
- Personally I feel the best solution is a subdued tape reading either
USAF Aux or even Civil Air Patrol, as long as its subdued.
- not as a power grab thing, but for 'fashion sense' (for lack of a better term)
Just my two cents.
But the AF generic aircrew style namepatch is blue...
Yes, its Royal Blue and white and it looks fine. I said no to ULTRAMARINE blue.
If we have the AF patch with CAP or USAF Aux added in somewhere
(not USCAP) I would be very happy.
Is it ALL AF patches though? When I was in AFROTC the patches had "solo wings" listed "CADET'" as rank and was Maroon in color. -- though that could just be ROTC
But a lighter blue nonetheless. I hearby approve AF standard for CAP. ::poof::
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on May 29, 2007, 04:29:35 AM
And I just wanted to state my reason for my dislike of " USCAP" - It makes us seem like our own little entity. When really we arent, we are a very tiny part of the USAF. So to me USAF-Aux seems the best and CAP follows - since thats the name Congress gave us.
JMHO
:)
Quote from: mikeylikey on May 27, 2007, 08:14:49 PMVelcro (R) is no loger a registered trademak name. It is simply Velcro. I met the guy who took the "hook and loop" fastners and cut them into strips, packaged them and sold them. He is now a multi-millionaire. Got to love those stoned hippies inventing something that already existed! I believe he said it was in 1972.
Velcro (R)
is still a registered trademark. Search
here (http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=tess&state=ps85jo.1.1) for Velcro, and view the items still in force.
Quote from: SarDragon on May 29, 2007, 05:34:44 AM
Quote from: mikeylikey on May 27, 2007, 08:14:49 PMVelcro (R) is no loger a registered trademak name. It is simply Velcro. I met the guy who took the "hook and loop" fastners and cut them into strips, packaged them and sold them. He is now a multi-millionaire. Got to love those stoned hippies inventing something that already existed! I believe he said it was in 1972.
Velcro (R) is still a registered trademark. Search here (http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=tess&state=ps85jo.1.1) for Velcro, and view the items still in force.
::flex:: The General is victorious!
Somehow I imagine an overweight white haired Senior member getting naked painting himself blue and charging headlong into Maxwell wielding a battleaxe.
::)
eeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on May 30, 2007, 09:57:06 AM
Somehow I imagine an overweight white haired Senior member getting naked painting himself blue and charging headlong into Maxwell wielding a battleaxe.
::)
You mean he's not wearing a great kilt and screaming, "FREEEEEEDOMMMMM!!!!!"?
Jack
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on May 30, 2007, 09:57:06 AM
Somehow I imagine an overweight white haired Senior member getting naked painting himself blue and charging headlong into Maxwell wielding a battleaxe.
::)
Someone has to let them know how we feel about things...
Quote from: JC004 on May 30, 2007, 02:48:51 PM
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on May 30, 2007, 09:57:06 AM
Somehow I imagine an overweight white haired Senior member getting naked painting himself blue and charging headlong into Maxwell wielding a battleaxe.
::)
Someone has to let them know how we feel about things...
Shouldnt he be wearing a safety orange color thong??? >:D
Quote from: LtCol White on May 30, 2007, 02:53:30 PM
Quote from: JC004 on May 30, 2007, 02:48:51 PM
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on May 30, 2007, 09:57:06 AM
Somehow I imagine an overweight white haired Senior member getting naked painting himself blue and charging headlong into Maxwell wielding a battleaxe.
::)
Someone has to let them know how we feel about things...
Shouldnt he be wearing a safety orange color thong??? >:D
...and orange hat...oh!...and orange shirt.
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 Personally I feel the best solution is a subdued tape reading either USAF Aux or even Civil Air Patrol, as long as its subdued."
Very doubtful this will ever happen. Perhaps if (and that is a very big if) the CAP adopts the ABU, you will see nametapes that are not white-on-ultramarine. The AF wants to ensure the difference betwen a CAP person and an AF person is painfully clear.
USAF Aux? Sorry, no. "Civil Air Patrol" is the name of the organization, "USAF Aux" comes after the comma. Besdies, CAP isn't always operating under the umbrella of Mother AF. "CAP" or "USCAP" belongs on a uniform, that is what you are all the time, "USAF Aux" does not.
Quote from: JarakMaldon on May 30, 2007, 04:30:38 PM
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 Personally I feel the best solution is a subdued tape reading either USAF Aux or even Civil Air Patrol, as long as its subdued."
Very doubtful this will ever happen. Perhaps if (and that is a very big if) the CAP adopts the ABU, you will see nametapes that are not white-on-ultramarine. The AF wants to ensure the difference betwen a CAP person and an AF person is painfully clear.
USAF Aux? Sorry, no. "Civil Air Patrol" is the name of the organization, "USAF Aux" comes after the comma. Besdies, CAP isn't always operating under the umbrella of Mother AF. "CAP" or "USCAP" belongs on a uniform, that is what you are all the time, "USAF Aux" does not.
There is no doubt the ABU's will come. It will be after USAF has had some phase in time. USAF has already said so but tabled the issue until a more appropriate time once USAF was ready with their own troops in them.
Quote from: LtCol White on May 30, 2007, 04:54:10 PM
There is no doubt the ABU's will come. It will be after USAF has had some phase in time. USAF has already said so but tabled the issue until a more appropriate time once USAF was ready with their own troops in them.
There is a place or two on the web that will be selling ABU's in a few months. Debating on getting a set. You can get complete uniform, from hat to boots. Just hope nobody gets stupid, and tries to wear their own ABU uniform for CAP. That will get us into hot water.
Vanguard flight suit/jacket badge is brown in color..... due to this fact, I did not order it.
Quote from: Hawk200 on May 30, 2007, 04:57:48 PM
Quote from: LtCol White on May 30, 2007, 04:54:10 PM
There is no doubt the ABU's will come. It will be after USAF has had some phase in time. USAF has already said so but tabled the issue until a more appropriate time once USAF was ready with their own troops in them.
There is a place or two on the web that will be selling ABU's in a few months. Debating on getting a set. You can get complete uniform, from hat to boots. Just hope nobody gets stupid, and tries to wear their own ABU uniform for CAP. That will get us into hot water.
I'd wait and not order them online. They will be in AAFES in the fall.
Quote from: SKYKING607 on May 30, 2007, 05:54:35 PM
Vanguard flight suit/jacket badge is brown in color..... due to this fact, I did not order it.
The brown is the one for the black leather jacket for the corporate uniform. The one for flight suits is the black one.
Quote from: LtCol WhiteThere is no doubt the ABU's will come.
I would not hold my breath on that. Already the AF is having distribution problems. I doubt at this point that you will see ABUs in the MCSS this fall.
For CAP, while there have been words given that the organization will adopt this uniform, words can be forgotten. With the current trend in CAP uniform policy, I would not put it past AF leadership, once the ABU and New Service Dress distribution to the force is well on its way, to tell CAP "you seem to have created your own uniforms for your senior membership (BBDU, TPU), so why do you need ours?"
IMO, CAP has gone Navy with its uniform selection. Really, there needs to be
one service uniform,
one utility/field uniform, and
one flight uniform that everyone, no matter how they look, can wear.
Cadets: AF Blues / ABU / AF-style Flight Suit
Senior Members: TPU (Fix it first) / BBDU / CAP-style Flight Suit
But again, just my opinion.
Quote from: JarakMaldon on May 30, 2007, 09:38:05 PM
Senior Members: TPU (Fix it first) / BBDU / CAP-style Flight Suit
Fix it how? What would you suggest?
As a corporate-style uniform that resembles but does not mimic the Air Force uniform -- in other words, has enough noticeable differences that the average person won't think a CAP officer is an AF officer -- the corporate uniform is just fine.
Jack
Quote from: LtCol White on May 30, 2007, 06:14:01 PMI'd wait and not order them online. They will be in AAFES in the fall.
It would simply be the novelty of having a set hanging in my closet before anyone else. It's currently a personal debate. I may wait until I'm Air Force again before getting a set. That will be a few years.
Quote from: JarakMaldon on May 30, 2007, 09:38:05 PM
Quote from: LtCol WhiteThere is no doubt the ABU's will come.
I would not hold my breath on that. Already the AF is having distribution problems. I doubt at this point that you will see ABUs in the MCSS this fall.
There are
always distribution problems when anything new is fielded. That's a fact of military life. If you always want the latest and greatest, you're rarely going to get it.
Quote
Cadets: AF Blues / ABU / AF-style Flight Suit
Senior Members: TPU (Fix it first) / BBDU / CAP-style Flight Suit
So you would advocate
non-uniformity within CAP? That's what your idea would be doing. If seniors aren't wearing the same uniforms as cadets, then there would be identity issues. There are people that don't like the TPU for various reasons. Would you sacrifice a group of seniors for a new batch that just has to have metal grade?
And how would you teach a cadet to wear a uniform that you aren't wearing yourself?
Additionally, you remove the Air Force variants (which is what they are), then the Air Force would have further control issues. The reasoning from the CAP side would be "You don't want us wearing your uniforms, why should you have any control over us?" And that is where CAP as an entity goes extinct.
Besides, the general membership of Civil Air Patrol didn't design and advocate the TPU. I think that there are a number of cooler heads on the AF side that realize this.
Quote from: ColonelJack on May 30, 2007, 10:05:45 PM
Quote from: JarakMaldon on May 30, 2007, 09:38:05 PM
Senior Members: TPU (Fix it first) / BBDU / CAP-style Flight Suit
Fix it how? What would you suggest?
As a corporate-style uniform that resembles but does not mimic the Air Force uniform -- in other words, has enough noticeable differences that the average person won't think a CAP officer is an AF officer -- the corporate uniform is just fine.
Well, then, the rules need to be fixed so all members will be allowed to wear it. Currently, I am not.
Quote from: JarakMaldon on May 30, 2007, 09:38:05 PM
Quote from: LtCol WhiteThere is no doubt the ABU's will come.
I would not hold my breath on that. Already the AF is having distribution problems. I doubt at this point that you will see ABUs in the MCSS this fall.
For CAP, while there have been words given that the organization will adopt this uniform, words can be forgotten. With the current trend in CAP uniform policy, I would not put it past AF leadership, once the ABU and New Service Dress distribution to the force is well on its way, to tell CAP "you seem to have created your own uniforms for your senior membership (BBDU, TPU), so why do you need ours?"
IMO, CAP has gone Navy with its uniform selection. Really, there needs to be one service uniform, one utility/field uniform, and one flight uniform that everyone, no matter how they look, can wear.
Cadets: AF Blues / ABU / AF-style Flight Suit
Senior Members: TPU (Fix it first) / BBDU / CAP-style Flight Suit
But again, just my opinion.
Got news for ya bud. They are already in some MCCS just not DOD wide yet. And yes, they will come to CAP as will the new service coat.
You're new on here so you might wanna go look at some of the other uniform posts and you'll see lots of ideas about the uniform changes etc. Its pretty much been beat to death. LOL...
Quote from: ColonelJackFix it how? What would you suggest?
As a corporate-style uniform that resembles but does not mimic the Air Force uniform -- in other words, has enough noticeable differences that the average person won't think a CAP officer is an AF officer -- the corporate uniform is just fine.
Respectfully non-concur. While the full-on TPU ensamble represents a distinct enough uniform, the jacket-less versions, IMO, do not. The only differences then become a white shirt and a 2-line blue nametag. Really, the AF light blue shirt and a white shirt look awfully similar in a lot of situations, like when you're outside and more then fifteen feet from someone. Then, the white shirt and 2-line nametag are not so distinct. Your average person isn't going to know different.
The easy fix: distinctive rank insignia. Why the blue AF officer rank? Our commander says it was readily available. Stab a CAP cutout though the middle, problem solved until you can bring back the blue rank with the embroidered CAP on it (or would it be USCAP now?).
Quote from: Hawk200So you would advocate non-uniformity within CAP? That's what your idea would be doing. If seniors aren't wearing the same uniforms as cadets, then there would be identity issues. There are people that don't like the TPU for various reasons. Would you sacrifice a group of seniors for a new batch that just has to have metal grade?
And how would you teach a cadet to wear a uniform that you aren't wearing yourself?
Additionally, you remove the Air Force variants (which is what they are), then the Air Force would have further control issues. The reasoning from the CAP side would be "You don't want us wearing your uniforms, why should you have any control over us?" And that is where CAP as an entity goes extinct.
Besides, the general membership of Civil Air Patrol didn't design and advocate the TPU. I think that there are a number of cooler heads on the AF side that realize this.
My suggestion was just that: a suggestion. Be it the TPU, which seems to be the flavor of the month, or someone else, the adult membership of the CAP needs
one uniform. Going to the TXWG Conf this spring, you'd swear that four different organizations were meeting up.
As far as
non-uniformity goes, that is what we have now. If we had all cadets in AF-styles and
ALL seniors in
ONE style, then it would be
tenfold more uniformity then we have now.
If a uniform could be implemented that would be universal across cadet and senior member ranks, no matter what the appearance of the person, then I'm all for it. However, it is clear that no AF uniform, unless it is
heavily modified, is going to work for the entire bunch of CAP seniors. It then goes the way of a distinct uniform, which won't go over well with the cadets.
Then again, you take AF styles away from seniors, there is more bellyaching. Honestly, I know it is never going to happen, but I just would like to see the day when CAP has one uniform.
Quote from: JarakMaldon on May 30, 2007, 10:41:52 PM
Quote from: ColonelJackFix it how? What would you suggest?
As a corporate-style uniform that resembles but does not mimic the Air Force uniform -- in other words, has enough noticeable differences that the average person won't think a CAP officer is an AF officer -- the corporate uniform is just fine.
Respectfully non-concur. While the full-on TPU ensamble represents a distinct enough uniform, the jacket-less versions, IMO, do not. The only differences then become a white shirt and a 2-line blue nametag. Really, the AF light blue shirt and a white shirt look awfully similar in a lot of situations, like when you're outside and more then fifteen feet from someone. Then, the white shirt and 2-line nametag are not so distinct. Your average person isn't going to know different.
The easy fix: distinctive rank insignia. Why the blue AF officer rank? Our commander says it was readily available. Stab a CAP cutout though the middle, problem solved until you can bring back the blue rank with the embroidered CAP on it (or would it be USCAP now?).
Quote from: Hawk200So you would advocate non-uniformity within CAP? That's what your idea would be doing. If seniors aren't wearing the same uniforms as cadets, then there would be identity issues. There are people that don't like the TPU for various reasons. Would you sacrifice a group of seniors for a new batch that just has to have metal grade?
And how would you teach a cadet to wear a uniform that you aren't wearing yourself?
Additionally, you remove the Air Force variants (which is what they are), then the Air Force would have further control issues. The reasoning from the CAP side would be "You don't want us wearing your uniforms, why should you have any control over us?" And that is where CAP as an entity goes extinct.
Besides, the general membership of Civil Air Patrol didn't design and advocate the TPU. I think that there are a number of cooler heads on the AF side that realize this.
My suggestion was just that: a suggestion. Be it the TPU, which seems to be the flavor of the month, or someone else, the adult membership of the CAP needs one uniform. Going to the TXWG Conf this spring, you'd swear that four different organizations were meeting up.
As far as non-uniformity goes, that is what we have now. If we had all cadets in AF-styles and ALL seniors in ONE style, then it would be tenfold more uniformity then we have now.
If a uniform could be implemented that would be universal across cadet and senior member ranks, no matter what the appearance of the person, then I'm all for it. However, it is clear that no AF uniform, unless it is heavily modified, is going to work for the entire bunch of CAP seniors. It then goes the way of a distinct uniform, which won't go over well with the cadets.
Then again, you take AF styles away from seniors, there is more bellyaching. Honestly, I know it is never going to happen, but I just would like to see the day when CAP has one uniform.
As I said, you might wanna read through some of the uniform stuff on here. ALL of this has been discussed at GREAAATTTT length.
You're absolutely right. Sorry, this isn't my usual CAP forum hang-out.
Sorry to interrupt and stray a little bit from the topic, but I heard a couple of months ago about a proposal to allow cadet officers to wear their grade insignia on their shoulders. I don't really care either way, but I'm curious as to whether the proposal was shot down.
Holy topic drift Batman!
And put the 'tudes on SAFE please.
Quote from: Jolt on May 30, 2007, 11:08:08 PM
Sorry to interrupt and stray a little bit from the topic, but I heard a couple of months ago about a proposal to allow cadet officers to wear their grade insignia on their shoulders. I don't really care either way, but I'm curious as to whether the proposal was shot down.
Hadn't heard of it. I would not be in favor of such a change. I would keep the grade on the flight cap and have only CADET on the ASNP.
Quote from: MIKE on May 30, 2007, 11:19:00 PM
Holy topic drift Batman!
And put the 'tudes on SAFE please.
Quote from: Jolt on May 30, 2007, 11:08:08 PM
Sorry to interrupt and stray a little bit from the topic, but I heard a couple of months ago about a proposal to allow cadet officers to wear their grade insignia on their shoulders. I don't really care either way, but I'm curious as to whether the proposal was shot down.
Hadn't heard of it. I would not be in favor of such a change. I would keep the grade on the flight cap and have only CADET on the ASNP.
Mike:
Not an attitude, but a point for the new guy:
For a while, the Army had us pin the distinctive unit crest on the shirt epaulet sleeve. That was a disaster. The epaulet slide got all frayed real quick, like within a few days.
Please, no pins on the slide.
???
We're off topic here again guys
I think so...at some point.... ;D
Back to the original topic, who can actually "ping" the Air Force on the status of embroidered nameplates and embroidered insignia? There's got to be some way.
I'm beginning to think that CAP needs an empowered uniform board. A board that will address the issues that members want, put them forward if the proposals are reasonable, and authorized to make inquiries of the Air Force directly. And all levels, including the National CC would need to go through them.
I doubt that the TPU would have actually gotten off the ground if such a path was taken, and a lot of our changes would be more reflective of the Air Force, instead of a mismash of the uniforms we have now.
Quote from: Hawk200 on May 31, 2007, 11:21:33 AM
Back to the original topic, who can actually "ping" the Air Force on the status of embroidered nameplates and embroidered insignia? There's got to be some way.
I'm beginning to think that CAP needs an empowered uniform board. A board that will address the issues that members want, put them forward if the proposals are reasonable, and authorized to make inquiries of the Air Force directly. And all levels, including the National CC would need to go through them.
I doubt that the TPU would have actually gotten off the ground if such a path was taken, and a lot of our changes would be more reflective of the Air Force, instead of a mismash of the uniforms we have now.
You cite the reason we will never have a uniform board. The National CC wants sole authroity to do what he wants, and wear what he wants.
Quote from: Hawk200 on May 31, 2007, 11:21:33 AM
Back to the original topic, who can actually "ping" the Air Force on the status of embroidered nameplates and embroidered insignia? There's got to be some way.
I'm beginning to think that CAP needs an empowered uniform board. A board that will address the issues that members want, put them forward if the proposals are reasonable, and authorized to make inquiries of the Air Force directly. And all levels, including the National CC would need to go through them.
I doubt that the TPU would have actually gotten off the ground if such a path was taken, and a lot of our changes would be more reflective of the Air Force, instead of a mismash of the uniforms we have now.
Hawk:
After my experience with the "Real" Air Force and their expectations for the CAP uniform, I am convinced that the cumbersome process of our NB writing a regulation, then seeking approval from the AF is not working.
I suggest that the Air Force write the regulations for use of the Air Force uniform with input from the NEC. How much easier would it be to add a chapter to AF uniform regulations titled: "Special Insignia and Provisions for the Civil Air Patrol?"
Our CAP regulation would be: "Read the AFI and follow it when wearing the USAF uniform."
Motion on the floor to adjourn... Thank you Colonel. Do we have a second? Thank you. All in favor, aye... Opposed, nay... Motion carried, this meeting of the National Board is adjoured.
Quote from: Hawk200 on May 31, 2007, 11:21:33 AM
Back to the original topic, who can actually "ping" the Air Force on the status of embroidered nameplates and embroidered insignia? There's got to be some way.
I'm beginning to think that CAP needs an empowered uniform board. A board that will address the issues that members want, put them forward if the proposals are reasonable, and authorized to make inquiries of the Air Force directly. And all levels, including the National CC would need to go through them.
I doubt that the TPU would have actually gotten off the ground if such a path was taken, and a lot of our changes would be more reflective of the Air Force, instead of a mismash of the uniforms we have now.
If we had such an animal, USAF would be more receptive to uniform changes. Especially if we had a USAF Rep on the board to be involved in development.
How does yellow lettering on blue background with red edges sound? It picks up on CAP colors, follows USAF heraldry, and follows the CAP command patch. I just think they should leave grade and service on the patch so that people understand who they're dealing with. That's especially needed for cadets and senior members without grade who have no insignia on their shoulders.
I think Yellow border, blue background, and white/silver lettering looks better. This matches the command patch much better.
One Senior Member in WAWG just the week stopped at clothing sales on base to purchase some plastic encased grade for his "bag" and was told that AAFES no longer stocks or procures them.
To be a little distinctive, white badge(s) and text on a blue background with a red boarder.
For PAWG, black badge(s) and text on an orange background with a black boarder. ;D
SMs without grade and SM NCOs shall have their grade and CAP beneath their name. Cadets shall have CADET and CAP beneath their name. Officers shall not have grade and CAP beneath their names if grade is worn on the shoulders of the flightsuit/flight jacket.
Quote from: MIKE on May 31, 2007, 09:48:07 PM
To be a little distinctive, white badge(s) and text on a blue background with a red boarder.
For PAWG, black badge(s) and text on an orange background with a black boarder. ;D
Gotta get a keystone on there somehow, no matter the color scheme 8)
Here is one made for me as a sample by someone I know at a company who makes them.
If I recall correctly, we can have our GT badges on the flight suit badge now, too, right?
Quote from: MIKE on May 31, 2007, 09:48:07 PM
To be a little distinctive, white badge(s) and text on a blue background with a red boarder.
For PAWG, black badge(s) and text on an orange background with a black boarder. ;D
:'( :'( :'(
Quote from: MIKE on May 31, 2007, 09:48:07 PM
...SMs without grade...shall have their grade...beneath their name...
!!!
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on May 31, 2007, 11:18:55 PM
If I recall correctly, we can have our GT badges on the flight suit badge now, too, right?
According to the all-powerful NB minutes...
Quote from: JC004 on May 31, 2007, 11:22:45 PM
Quote from: MIKE on May 31, 2007, 09:48:07 PM
...SMs without grade...shall have their grade...beneath their name...
!!!
What I should have wrote: SMs without grade shall have SM and CAP beneath their name. IIRC the previous CAPM 39-1 authorized SR MBR or something.
Quote from: MIKE on May 31, 2007, 09:48:07 PMOfficers shall not have grade and CAP beneath their names if grade is worn on the shoulders of the flightsuit/flight jacket.
I didn't know this was authorized. I see Air Force personnel do it all the time, but I didn't know CAP officers were allowed to omit grade and CAP beneath their name on the ASNP. Do you have a reg cite, sir?
Quote from: 12211985 on June 01, 2007, 12:19:03 AM
Quote from: MIKE on May 31, 2007, 09:48:07 PMOfficers shall not have grade and CAP beneath their names if grade is worn on the shoulders of the flightsuit/flight jacket.
I didn't know this was authorized. I see Air Force personnel do it all the time, but I didn't know CAP officers were allowed to omit grade and CAP beneath their name on the ASNP. Do you have a reg cite, sir?
It was a suggestion, not a reg quote. There is no reference for it.
Quote from: MIKE on May 31, 2007, 11:45:12 PM
Quote from: JC004 on May 31, 2007, 11:22:45 PM
Quote from: MIKE on May 31, 2007, 09:48:07 PM
...SMs without grade...shall have their grade...beneath their name...
!!!
What I should have wrote: SMs without grade shall have SM and CAP beneath their name. IIRC the previous CAPM 39-1 authorized SR MBR or something.
Sorry, I had to mess with you. :P Although this sounds like a CAP requirement. "You will do this, even though it is impossible."
I wrote it that way on purpose. >:D
Quote from: wacapgh on May 31, 2007, 09:20:19 PM
One Senior Member in WAWG just the week stopped at clothing sales on base to purchase some plastic encased grade for his "bag" and was told that AAFES no longer stocks or procures them.
That's because the military hasn't used them in 20 some odd years...to my knowledge, we are the only ones that still use them...last time I saw them used was in
Iron Eagle...
^^ HAHAH HAHA. Lets get with the times NHQ! For a Non-Profit, CAP sure does make lots of "extra" money.
So if we can no longer obtain these plastic encased items on base, where are our pilots getting them?
Vanguard
Quote from: PHall on June 03, 2007, 02:03:28 AM
Quote from: LtCol White on June 02, 2007, 06:56:08 PM
Vanguard
For a not-so-nominal fee, plus shipping. ::)
CAP/NHQ CV says that if you're shipping something small and you call in your order, they can wave the shipping.
Quote from: Jolt on June 03, 2007, 02:51:14 AM
Quote from: PHall on June 03, 2007, 02:03:28 AM
Quote from: LtCol White on June 02, 2007, 06:56:08 PM
Vanguard
For a not-so-nominal fee, plus shipping. ::)
CAP/NHQ CV says that if you're shipping something small and you call in your order, they can wave the shipping.
And is that a horizontal wave or a vertical wave? :o Or even an electromagnetic wave? :D
Quote from: SarDragon on June 03, 2007, 04:47:20 AM
Quote from: Jolt on June 03, 2007, 02:51:14 AM
Quote from: PHall on June 03, 2007, 02:03:28 AM
Quote from: LtCol White on June 02, 2007, 06:56:08 PM
Vanguard
For a not-so-nominal fee, plus shipping. ::)
CAP/NHQ CV says that if you're shipping something small and you call in your order, they can wave the shipping.
And is that a horizontal wave or a vertical wave? :o Or even an electromagnetic wave? :D
or a Force Wave
Me: "You will waive the shipping on my insignia."
Them: "I will waive the shipping on your insignia."
Me: "You will get my order correct the first time, without phone calls."
Them: "I will get your order correct the first time, without phone calls."
Force wave?!?
That's a Jedi Mind Trick, bro.
Quote from: SarDragon on June 03, 2007, 04:47:20 AM
Quote from: Jolt on June 03, 2007, 02:51:14 AM
Quote from: PHall on June 03, 2007, 02:03:28 AM
Quote from: LtCol White on June 02, 2007, 06:56:08 PM
Vanguard
For a not-so-nominal fee, plus shipping. ::)
CAP/NHQ CV says that if you're shipping something small and you call in your order, they can wave the shipping.
And is that a horizontal wave or a vertical wave? :o Or even an electromagnetic wave? :D
No...that's how they save the shipping cost. They send it by wave...
Quote from: Mustang on June 04, 2007, 04:21:12 AM
Force wave?!?
That's a Jedi Mind Trick, bro.
Technically it's called "
Alter"
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on June 02, 2007, 06:54:31 PM
So if we can no longer obtain these plastic encased items on base, where are our pilots getting them?
Quote from: LtCol White on June 02, 2007, 06:56:08 PM
Vanguard
Vanguard has them - so does The Hock Shop ( www.thehock.com ).
Where to find the correct black leather flight suit/jacket patch w/aeronautical rating, name, etc.?
Not at the Vanguard source....Hock Shop doesn't have one either?
Quote from: SKYKING607 on June 08, 2007, 07:41:52 PM
Where to find the correct black leather flight suit/jacket patch w/aeronautical rating, name, etc.?
Not at the Vanguard source....Hock Shop doesn't have one either?
Vanguard does have them. Right here:
http://www.civilairpatrolstore.com/store/view_product.php?product=20370
Quote from: Hawk200 on June 08, 2007, 07:59:16 PM
Quote from: SKYKING607 on June 08, 2007, 07:41:52 PM
Where to find the correct black leather flight suit/jacket patch w/aeronautical rating, name, etc.?
Not at the Vanguard source....Hock Shop doesn't have one either?
Vanguard does have them. Right here:
http://www.civilairpatrolstore.com/store/view_product.php?product=20370
hmm...looks like
(http://www.civilairpatrolstore.com/store/images/nophoto.jpg)
Quote from: JC004 on June 08, 2007, 10:18:21 PM
Quote from: Hawk200 on June 08, 2007, 07:59:16 PM
Quote from: SKYKING607 on June 08, 2007, 07:41:52 PM
Where to find the correct black leather flight suit/jacket patch w/aeronautical rating, name, etc.?
Not at the Vanguard source....Hock Shop doesn't have one either?
Vanguard does have them. Right here:
http://www.civilairpatrolstore.com/store/view_product.php?product=20370
hmm...looks like
(http://www.civilairpatrolstore.com/store/images/nophoto.jpg)
I knew that the above post was going to be funny, but JC004- you owe me a new computer. ;D ;D ;D
The No image available patch is authorized on the flight suit
Would that be in printed plastic, or embroidered? :)
Your choice.
Plastic encased: $4.95*
Embroidered: $5.29*
* Vaungaurd Industries neither garuntees that either item will ever be sent out , unless you pay for the $20 surcharge for express shipping**
** In order to qualify for the express shipping, you must have:
a) authorization from
1) sq/cc
2) gp/cc
3) wg/cc
4) region/cc
5) CAP/cc
b) proof that you need it
- Cap Regulations or manuals do not count.
Quote from: JC004 on June 08, 2007, 10:18:21 PM
Quote from: Hawk200 on June 08, 2007, 07:59:16 PM
Quote from: SKYKING607 on June 08, 2007, 07:41:52 PM
Where to find the correct black leather flight suit/jacket patch w/aeronautical rating, name, etc.?
Not at the Vanguard source....Hock Shop doesn't have one either?
Vanguard does have them. Right here:
http://www.civilairpatrolstore.com/store/view_product.php?product=20370
hmm...looks like
(http://www.civilairpatrolstore.com/store/images/nophoto.jpg)
You know what the funny thing is? When I posted it, it had a photo!
Quote from: BillB on June 09, 2007, 12:41:30 AM
The No image available patch is authorized on the flight suit
I need a new computer! :D
Quote from: RogueLeader on June 08, 2007, 10:23:07 PM
Quote from: JC004 on June 08, 2007, 10:18:21 PM
Quote from: Hawk200 on June 08, 2007, 07:59:16 PM
Quote from: SKYKING607 on June 08, 2007, 07:41:52 PM
Where to find the correct black leather flight suit/jacket patch w/aeronautical rating, name, etc.?
Not at the Vanguard source....Hock Shop doesn't have one either?
Vanguard does have them. Right here:
http://www.civilairpatrolstore.com/store/view_product.php?product=20370
hmm...looks like
(http://www.civilairpatrolstore.com/store/images/nophoto.jpg)
I knew that the above post was going to be funny, but JC004- you owe me a new computer. ;D ;D ;D
Opps...I'll send you a couple of dead ones from clients. Will work better than my Vista machine...
Quote from: JC004 on June 09, 2007, 06:25:34 PM
Quote from: RogueLeader on June 08, 2007, 10:23:07 PM
Quote from: JC004 on June 08, 2007, 10:18:21 PM
Quote from: Hawk200 on June 08, 2007, 07:59:16 PM
Quote from: SKYKING607 on June 08, 2007, 07:41:52 PM
Where to find the correct black leather flight suit/jacket patch w/aeronautical rating, name, etc.?
Not at the Vanguard source....Hock Shop doesn't have one either?
Vanguard does have them. Right here:
http://www.civilairpatrolstore.com/store/view_product.php?product=20370
hmm...looks like
(http://www.civilairpatrolstore.com/store/images/nophoto.jpg)
I knew that the above post was going to be funny, but JC004- you owe me a new computer. ;D ;D ;D
Opps...I'll send you a couple of dead ones from clients. Will work better than my Vista machine...
They better be able to combine into one useful one or else. . . .
Don't tempt me.... Someone created the Aux On/ Aux Off patch....
I am so tempted to create a "No Image Available" patch...
But first I need to shave off my well trimmed goatee, seems I am a less cable person when I have one.
Quote from: RogueLeader on June 09, 2007, 10:12:19 PM
Quote from: JC004 on June 09, 2007, 06:25:34 PM
Quote from: RogueLeader on June 08, 2007, 10:23:07 PM
Quote from: JC004 on June 08, 2007, 10:18:21 PM
Quote from: Hawk200 on June 08, 2007, 07:59:16 PM
Quote from: SKYKING607 on June 08, 2007, 07:41:52 PM
Where to find the correct black leather flight suit/jacket patch w/aeronautical rating, name, etc.?
Not at the Vanguard source....Hock Shop doesn't have one either?
Vanguard does have them. Right here:
http://www.civilairpatrolstore.com/store/view_product.php?product=20370
hmm...looks like
(http://www.civilairpatrolstore.com/store/images/nophoto.jpg)
I knew that the above post was going to be funny, but JC004- you owe me a new computer. ;D ;D ;D
Opps...I'll send you a couple of dead ones from clients. Will work better than my Vista machine...
They better be able to combine into one useful one or else. . . .
Maybe if I send a prayer too...
Quote from: JC004 on June 10, 2007, 12:54:28 AM
Quote from: RogueLeader on June 09, 2007, 10:12:19 PM
Quote from: JC004 on June 09, 2007, 06:25:34 PM
Quote from: RogueLeader on June 08, 2007, 10:23:07 PM
Quote from: JC004 on June 08, 2007, 10:18:21 PM
Quote from: Hawk200 on June 08, 2007, 07:59:16 PM
Quote from: SKYKING607 on June 08, 2007, 07:41:52 PM
Where to find the correct black leather flight suit/jacket patch w/aeronautical rating, name, etc.?
Not at the Vanguard source....Hock Shop doesn't have one either?
Vanguard does have them. Right here:
http://www.civilairpatrolstore.com/store/view_product.php?product=20370
hmm...looks like
(http://www.civilairpatrolstore.com/store/images/nophoto.jpg)
I knew that the above post was going to be funny, but JC004- you owe me a new computer. ;D ;D ;D
Opps...I'll send you a couple of dead ones from clients. Will work better than my Vista machine...
They better be able to combine into one useful one or else. . . .
Maybe if I send a prayer too...
On a wing, if you could.
Quote from: RogueLeader on June 10, 2007, 01:07:19 AM
Quote from: JC004 on June 10, 2007, 12:54:28 AM
Maybe if I send a prayer too...
On a wing, if you could.
Nice. But can you name the TV show that popularized that song? :)
Quote from: Hawk200 on June 10, 2007, 01:12:43 AM
Quote from: RogueLeader on June 10, 2007, 01:07:19 AM
Quote from: JC004 on June 10, 2007, 12:54:28 AM
Maybe if I send a prayer too...
On a wing, if you could.
Nice. But can you name the TV show that popularized that song? :)
Too easy!
You are Ralph Hinkley and I claim my five dollars.
Quote from: RogueLeader on June 10, 2007, 01:07:19 AM
Quote from: JC004 on June 10, 2007, 12:54:28 AM
Quote from: RogueLeader on June 09, 2007, 10:12:19 PM
Quote from: JC004 on June 09, 2007, 06:25:34 PM
Quote from: RogueLeader on June 08, 2007, 10:23:07 PM
Quote from: JC004 on June 08, 2007, 10:18:21 PM
Quote from: Hawk200 on June 08, 2007, 07:59:16 PM
Quote from: SKYKING607 on June 08, 2007, 07:41:52 PM
Where to find the correct black leather flight suit/jacket patch w/aeronautical rating, name, etc.?
Not at the Vanguard source....Hock Shop doesn't have one either?
Vanguard does have them. Right here:
http://www.civilairpatrolstore.com/store/view_product.php?product=20370
hmm...looks like
(http://www.civilairpatrolstore.com/store/images/nophoto.jpg)
I knew that the above post was going to be funny, but JC004- you owe me a new computer. ;D ;D ;D
Opps...I'll send you a couple of dead ones from clients. Will work better than my Vista machine...
They better be able to combine into one useful one or else. . . .
Maybe if I send a prayer too...
On a wing, if you could.
Ladies, gentlemen, and national board members - this is brilliant. I have found a replacement for Vanguard's
No Image Available thinger. BEHOLD!
(http://jcolgan004.googlepages.com/NABISCO_zm.jpg)
This, courtesy of MooseJaw (http://www.moosejaw.com/moosejaw/product.asp?path=Search&path=gps&search_handle=A%3dgps%7eB%3dgps%7eD%3d9%7eE%3d1%5e1%5e2%5enum_Sort1%7eK%3d4%7eL%3d1%7eM%3d4%7e&scid=SearchResults&pf_id=10037292&spoffset=2&s_id=0).
Quote from: 2d Lt Fat and FUZZY on June 09, 2007, 11:36:26 PM
Don't tempt me.... Someone created the Aux On/ Aux Off patch....
I am so tempted to create a "No Image Available" patch...
But first I need to shave off my well trimmed goatee, seems I am a less cable person when I have one.
If you make one, I'll be first in line to buy it!
Look again...the Vanguard flight suit patch is brown leather...NOT black like ours is supposed to be!
Quote from: SKYKING607 on June 20, 2007, 09:05:49 PM
Look again...the Vanguard flight suit patch is brown leather...NOT black like ours is supposed to be!
That's the patch for the leather jacket - 0599GB. The correct black one is 0599GA.
Quote from: SKYKING607 on June 20, 2007, 09:05:49 PM
Look again...the Vanguard flight suit patch is brown leather...NOT black like ours is supposed to be!
If the nametag is for wear on the flightsuit or flight jacket (EXCEPT the leather one), it's to be black; the nametag for the black leather jacket is to be brown-on-black, same as the USAF.