emergency service missions

[Eclipse]

I know I have spent quite a bit more than $50... I am sure I have spent more than $200. And I love my gear, it is set up perfect for me.

Absolutely, so have I, but it's just the nonsense about how much it costs to be on a GTM should end.

Just as a pilot can fly with a borrowed sectional and a notepad, or he can invest in an iPad and a kneeboard, etc.

Most of the GT gear will fit in a small backpack and you can throw a sandwich in for lunch, vs. $300 worth of Molle and MRE's.  People who want to be
in the game make things happen instead of making excuses.

[RADIOMAN015]

I know I have spent quite a bit more than $50... I am sure I have spent more than $200. And I love my gear, it is set up perfect for me.

Absolutely, so have I, but it's just the nonsense about how much it costs to be on a GTM should end.

Just as a pilot can fly with a borrowed sectional and a notepad, or he can invest in an iPad and a kneeboard, etc.

Most of the GT gear will fit in a small backpack and you can throw a sandwich in for lunch, vs. $300 worth of Molle and MRE's.  People who want to be
in the game make things happen instead of making excuses.

Hmm, are we talking about ground team operations in the winter time in the wings that get snow, cold rain, freezing rain, sleet   I highly doubt that $50.00 worth of personnel clothing/equipment is going to get any GT deployed safely in the winter.  Pure fantasy again
RM

[Eclipse]

Hmm, are we talking about ground team operations in the winter time in the wings that get snow, cold rain, freezing rain, sleet   I highly doubt that $50.00 worth of personnel clothing/equipment is going to get any GT deployed safely in the winter. 

Yes.

When it's cold, I wear a jacket, and thermals.  Both of which anyone who lives in climes you indicate will already own.
GTM ops do not equal survival experiences in marginal conditions, but you knew that.

[RADIOMAN015]

Hmm, are we talking about ground team operations in the winter time in the wings that get snow, cold rain, freezing rain, sleet   I highly doubt that $50.00 worth of personnel clothing/equipment is going to get any GT deployed safely in the winter. 

Yes.

When it's cold, I wear a jacket, and thermals.  Both of which anyone who lives in climes you indicate will already own.
GTM ops do not equal survival experiences in marginal conditions, but you knew that.

You'd be surprised how many don't and IF you throw in having the proper cold weather outwear (jacket & boots) for wearing the BDU's -- well it could get even worse, unless of course the IC authorizes a relaxed uniform response policy.

I agree with you that we have ABSOLUTELY no capability to respond during marginal conditions.   Those vans are almost useless in heavy snow on road conditions.  Best bet is to call 911 and at least in my state get the Environmental Police on snow mobiles so they can save some lives.   Probably a few of us UDF guys with golf shirts on and wearing some good ski pants and civilian boots can also help out    
RM

[Eclipse]

I agree with you that we have ABSOLUTELY no capability to respond during marginal conditions. 

No, you don't, because that's not what I said.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Here, in Indiana, we can operate in horrible conditions. Rain, snow, you name it... Of course except globally sized hail and larger, oh and during a tornado on the ground. But we train in the winter, we usually have a training event setup that we try to hit the really cold part of winter just so that we can get the idea of how we need to operate in the cold, and yes we use common sense so that. O one gets hurt, our guys are vey smart about it. But yes, we can operate in the snow and rain. We train for it because we know that more likely than not we will be operating in bad weather. Rarely does a natural disaster occur when the sun is shinning and rarely does a person get lost or go missing in wonderful weather, unless it is a law enforcement mission or someone just doesn't know what they are doing in the woods... But most often things go wrong in bad weather.

[RADIOMAN015]

Here, in Indiana, we can operate in horrible conditions. Rain, snow, you name it... Of course except globally sized hail and larger, oh and during a tornado on the ground. But we train in the winter, we usually have a training event setup that we try to hit the really cold part of winter just so that we can get the idea of how we need to operate in the cold, and yes we use common sense so that.

Rarely does a natural disaster occur when the sun is shinning and rarely does a person get lost or go missing in wonderful weather, unless it is a law enforcement mission or someone just doesn't know what they are doing in the woods... But most often things go wrong in bad weather.

If I remember correctly your state is pretty flat terrain with not much in the way of hills or mountains (my experience with your state is staying overnight in Angola & Elkhart while driving on interstate route 80/90 enroute to new military assignments) 
Unless you are putting chains on your CAP vans (which I don't think we allowed to do) or have access to four wheel drive SUV type vehicles (which CAP is now purchasing on a limited basis), a response during a storm is going to be very difficult.

Also my squadron's former expert with 25+ years of outdoor adventure (left the program partially because of the inexperienced personnel that were involved in ground team training operations, that had NO real bad weather winter woodlands hiking experience), told me that wear of CAP's BDU's during sleet, freezing rain or snow, and low temperatures would likely result in injury to personnel, I think he called it hypothermia.  

Maybe if CAP partnered with another group with snowmobiles, ATV's, Four Wheeler Jeep/Truck clubs etc, (or even public safety agencies that have this equipment) that would assist greatly in winter time snow storm responses with a quick in and out capability.  The days of walking through the deep snow are gone, ineffective & inefficient response.   As you know CAP can't own/operate ATV's or snowmobiles -- IF we are serious about winter responses, I would think we should be able to own/operate this equipment.

Now personally, I'll be back at mission base nice and warm & cozy with my long sleeve polo shirt on
RM




   

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Embarrass is pretty flat compared to the rest of Indiana, no not mountains, but plenty of hills. And if you keep up with your tires you should be pretty good, I have never had to use snow chains here.

[Eclipse]

...have access to four wheel drive SUV type vehicles (which CAP is now purchasing on a limited basis), a response during a storm is going to be very difficult.

Right, because no one in CAP, and very few members of the general public, own 4WD and AWD vehicles these days. 

Oh wait, I forgot, reverse that...

[RADIOMAN015]

...have access to four wheel drive SUV type vehicles (which CAP is now purchasing on a limited basis), a response during a storm is going to be very difficult.

Right, because no one in CAP, and very few members of the general public, own 4WD and AWD vehicles these days. 

Oh wait, I forgot, reverse that...

Members are under no obligation to use their personal vehicles to respond with a ground team to any Missions for America.

IF CAP is serious about ground team response capabilities, they will ensure appropriate 4WD response vehicles are purchased and distributed properly to wing that will need that capability. Oh, I forgot, if it's icy and snowy and the poor CAP driver driving a CAP vehicle (even a 4WD) has an accident responding to a potential aircraft crash/lost person etc, then of course it was the driver's fault because under ORM we shouldn't have been out driving.  Oh but of course if it's the member's personal vehicle, no worries CAP isn't responsible for that damage.
Yep, CAP sure knows how to take care of their members.
RM   

[Eclipse]

...have access to four wheel drive SUV type vehicles (which CAP is now purchasing on a limited basis), a response during a storm is going to be very difficult.

Right, because no one in CAP, and very few members of the general public, own 4WD and AWD vehicles these days. 

Oh wait, I forgot, reverse that...

Members are under no obligation to use their personal vehicles to respond with a ground team to any Missions for America.

Nope, they aren't, but most prefer to use them, and many have them outfitted specifically for that purpose.  Further to that,
for the most part, POV's are an acknowledged part of the response plan for members - even if you want to use a COV, you still have to
get to it, right?

Or perhaps you've missed that a huge part of CAP's value is bringing benevolent citizens to volunteer their time, skills, and treasure towards
the greater good of helping their fellow man?  ANd the best part is that it is 100% voluntary.  Which means everyone who shows up,
wants to be there.  Busy that weekend?  No problem, help us next time?  Church services in the morning?  Can you swing by after?
No?  No biggie, but don't forget us when things loosen up...

So why don't you just stop grasping for every lame, "I won't, you can't, you can't make me" excuse for why people won't respond?

It apparently will surprise you, but in a lot of other wings, people like to help, enjoy contributing their personal funds towards the
greater good of CAP service, aren't at risk of being fired on the whim of some imaginary company that doesn't like their employees
to be good citizens, and aren't so risk averse as to be unable to leave the house.

They are actually personally informed regarding the risk / reward curve of being in CAP, and still show up when called.

At least in my wing.

[RADIOMAN015]

...have access to four wheel drive SUV type vehicles (which CAP is now purchasing on a limited basis), a response during a storm is going to be very difficult.

Right, because no one in CAP, and very few members of the general public, own 4WD and AWD vehicles these days. 

Oh wait, I forgot, reverse that...

Members are under no obligation to use their personal vehicles to respond with a ground team to any Missions for America.

Nope, they aren't, but most prefer to use them, and many have them outfitted specifically for that purpose.  Further to that,
for the most part, POV's are an acknowledged part of the repose plan for members - even if you want to use a COV, you still have to
get to it, right?

So why don't you just stop grasping for every lame, "I won't, you can't, you can't make me" excuse for why people won't respond?

Well maybe we need to reduce the numbers of planes we are purchasing and allocate that money to buy more four wheel drive ground team response vehicles for appropriate allocation to the wings???.

Again the original post was about CAP's new missions.   I don't see CAP members buying their own aircraft so they can go on aerial search/photo recon missions, why should we expect CAP members to buy and or use their personal 4WD vehicles for ground missions when conditions prevent the CAP vans from being utilized    Looks to me like the entire ground ops gets the short end of the stick from a national strategy standpoint.  It isn't a priority with them.   Yes there are dedicated members that are making these responses work in spite of the lack of support at the national level and they should be saluted for their efforts :clap:
RM   

[cap235629]

Arkansas Wing has 3 4X4 vehicles placed where they are accessible to the active ground teams.  Arkansas has more dirt and gravel roads than paved roads.  You get a little rain, never mind ice and snow and they are very hazardous and difficult to traverse.  I have personally been on more actual missing person searches since being in this wing than I have been on missing aircraft searches by a factor of 3 to 1. YMMV.

[Spaceman3750]

...have access to four wheel drive SUV type vehicles (which CAP is now purchasing on a limited basis), a response during a storm is going to be very difficult.

Right, because no one in CAP, and very few members of the general public, own 4WD and AWD vehicles these days. 

Oh wait, I forgot, reverse that...

Members are under no obligation to use their personal vehicles to respond with a ground team to any Missions for America.

Nope, they aren't, but most prefer to use them, and many have them outfitted specifically for that purpose.  Further to that,
for the most part, POV's are an acknowledged part of the repose plan for members - even if you want to use a COV, you still have to
get to it, right?

So why don't you just stop grasping for every lame, "I won't, you can't, you can't make me" excuse for why people won't respond?

Well maybe we need to reduce the numbers of planes we are purchasing and allocate that money to buy more four wheel drive ground team response vehicles for appropriate allocation to the wings???.

Again the original post was about CAP's new missions.   I don't see CAP members buying their own aircraft so they can go on aerial search/photo recon missions, why should we expect CAP members to buy and or use their personal 4WD vehicles for ground missions when conditions prevent the CAP vans from being utilized    Looks to me like the entire ground ops gets the short end of the stick from a national strategy standpoint.  It isn't a priority with them.   Yes there are dedicated members that are making these responses work in spite of the lack of support at the national level and they should be saluted for their efforts :clap:
RM

Nobody's -expecting- them to, but when one of my GTM3's rolls up in their 'burban, I'm not about to turn them down.

[SarDragon]

Well maybe we need to reduce the numbers of planes we are purchasing and allocate that money to buy more four wheel drive ground team response vehicles for appropriate allocation to the wings???.

Again the original post was about CAP's new missions.   I don't see CAP members buying their own aircraft so they can go on aerial search/photo recon missions, why should we expect CAP members to buy and or use their personal 4WD vehicles for ground missions when conditions prevent the CAP vans from being utilized    Looks to me like the entire ground ops gets the short end of the stick from a national strategy standpoint.  It isn't a priority with them.   Yes there are dedicated members that are making these responses work in spite of the lack of support at the national level and they should be saluted for their efforts :clap:
RM

We have enough trouble getting recommended utilization of our aircraft assets, and you want to get vehicles that will likely sit unused an even higher percentage of the time than airplanes? Doesn't make sense to me at all.

At least we can fly the planes for proficiency flying, O-flights, CD, etc., to get the usage. Cars/trucks do not have the same requirements in terms of currency, hours, etc. There are probably fewer opportunities for use from vehicles than planes.

[ol'fido]

...have access to four wheel drive SUV type vehicles (which CAP is now purchasing on a limited basis), a response during a storm is going to be very difficult.

Right, because no one in CAP, and very few members of the general public, own 4WD and AWD vehicles these days. 

Oh wait, I forgot, reverse that...

Members are under no obligation to use their personal vehicles to respond with a ground team to any Missions for America.

Nope, they aren't, but most prefer to use them, and many have them outfitted specifically for that purpose.  Further to that,
for the most part, POV's are an acknowledged part of the repose plan for members - even if you want to use a COV, you still have to
get to it, right?

So why don't you just stop grasping for every lame, "I won't, you can't, you can't make me" excuse for why people won't respond?

Well maybe we need to reduce the numbers of planes we are purchasing and allocate that money to buy more four wheel drive ground team response vehicles for appropriate allocation to the wings???.

Again the original post was about CAP's new missions.   I don't see CAP members buying their own aircraft so they can go on aerial search/photo recon missions, why should we expect CAP members to buy and or use their personal 4WD vehicles for ground missions when conditions prevent the CAP vans from being utilized    Looks to me like the entire ground ops gets the short end of the stick from a national strategy standpoint.  It isn't a priority with them.   Yes there are dedicated members that are making these responses work in spite of the lack of support at the national level and they should be saluted for their efforts :clap:
RM

What in blue blazes do you think we did before the AF bought us all those shiny white vans? Stayed at home and played with our L-pers? Thumbed a ride from a friendly farmer?

We piled in a pickup, POV van, or what are now SUVs and we went out. CAP members don't forget how to drive in local conditions just because they get behind the wheel of one of them shiny vans. I watched my group CC drive a CAP van home from WI last year in a blizzard, My butt was puckered but it was like driving in the park to him hailing from Iowa and the Dakotas.

Like Bob said, it seems like you like to find ways not to do something rather than finding a way to Improvise, adapt, or overcome.

My user name is Ol'Fido. That comes from my old squadron's motto. F.I.D.O. -FORGET IT, DRIVE ON. That's what we did. We didn't set at the house wringing our hands.

OK, vent complete.

[sardak]

How about this? cowg_sno-cat
Mike

[Woodsy]

Wait... What?!

Does CAP really have snow cats???  Is this current or something old?

[SarDragon]

Wait... What?!

Does CAP really have snow cats???  Is this current or something old?

Very olde. (Almost missed the linky - mid-'80s. Yeah, for you, olde.)

[Woodsy]

Wait... What?!

Does CAP really have snow cats???  Is this current or something old?

Very olde. (Almost missed the linky - mid-'80s. Yeah, for you, olde.)

Ahh, I missed the link myself.  Are there still any Snow Cats in service?  It surprised me, I've never heard of any.  Then again, I wouldn't have much use for them here in FLWG. 

Cheers to the mid-80's.  Some of the worlds smartest people were born around that time