Emergency Services patch

[U.S.A.F. C.A.P.]

If I am General Emergency Services qualified and qualified for any other speciality, am I allowed to get the Emergency Services patch?

[Eclipse]

Yes.

[cap235629]

stop trying to decorate your uniform, slow down and learn, you just might enjoy yourself along the way.....

[RiverAux]

Gee, way to harsh on a cadet who asked a valid question about a badge that he has apparently earned.

[SARDOC]

If I am General Emergency Services qualified and qualified for any other speciality, am I allowed to get the Emergency Services patch?

You have to have it approved by your Chain of Command.  Don't get excited and just put it on your uniform until you have the authorization to do so.  Ask your Chain!

[SarDragon]

It is requested, and approved, through eServices.

[arajca]

[pouring more fuel]

Go into Eservices, Ops Quals. Under Emergency Services, there's a selection for ES Awards. Click it and check the box for "CAP Emergency Services Patch". Click the Submit button at the bottom of the page.

Wait for your commander to call and ask "What the heck is this?"

Enjoy.

Personal note: I do not advocate wearing the ES Patch.

[U.S.A.F. C.A.P.]

It's a simple question. I was unsure.

[Major Lord]

[pouring more fuel]

Go into Eservices, Ops Quals. Under Emergency Services, there's a selection for ES Awards. Click it and check the box for "CAP Emergency Services Patch". Click the Submit button at the bottom of the page.

Wait for your commander to call and ask "What the heck is this?"

Enjoy.

Personal note: I do not advocate wearing the ES Patch.

At least not the "Goofy" one......

Major Lord

[arajca]

It's a simple question. I was unsure.

As a new poster, you are most likely unaware that there are no 'simple' questions on CAPTalk. As you read more, you'll find that most threads involving uniforms are the least simple.

[lordmonar]

If I am General Emergency Services qualified and qualified for any other speciality, am I allowed to get the Emergency Services patch?

You have to have it approved by your Chain of Command.  Don't get excited and just put it on your uniform until you have the authorization to do so.  Ask your Chain!

Nope.....does not have to be approved.  He earned it!
He got approval when the commande approved him for the training and the wing ESO approved his rateing!
Let's not add stupid additional paperwork.

[Eclipse]

ES patch, various ES badges, etc., all are self-actualizing and do not require further approval once the respective
requirements have been met, however, now that eServices can track them, it's not a bad idea to put them in there.

Badges are worn permanently, and it's not unusual for members to move up, out, or to other, and eventually lose
all record of having been awarded the "x".  having it in eServices insures it is on the permanent record.

[SARDOC]

If I am General Emergency Services qualified and qualified for any other speciality, am I allowed to get the Emergency Services patch?

You have to have it approved by your Chain of Command.  Don't get excited and just put it on your uniform until you have the authorization to do so.  Ask your Chain!

Nope.....does not have to be approved.  He earned it!
He got approval when the commande approved him for the training and the wing ESO approved his rateing!
Let's not add stupid additional paperwork.

5.  Procedures for Awarding Aeronautical Ratings, Emergency Services (ES) and Ground Team Badges, and ES Patches:
a. Awards requests will automatically be generated when requirements for qualifications or certifications are earned
and posted in the national headquarters qualification and certification system, but members may be required to provide proof
of completion in order for commanders to approve awards properly.  School/activity directors will publish and input certified
graduate lists  into the national headquarters qualification and certification system to avoid inundating command echelons
with award requests.  NHQ  CAP/DO  will provide approved school/activity directors limited access to the national
headquarters qualification and certification system to input their certifications.
b. CAP wing or region commanders and school/activity directors, as appropriate, are the  approval authority for the
award of aeronautical, ES qualification, or ground team badges, and ES Patches to members within their organization.
c.  When the wing or region commander approves the request, or the school/activity director certifies completion, the
appropriate entry will automatically be made in the member's online records.
d. Ratings are effective the date the entry is approved by the wing or region commander, or the date the school/activity
director certifies completion as appropriate in the national headquarters qualification and certification system. 

I know you have an aversion to paperwork..Which is why they made and easy convenient eServices application to request it.  It still has to be requested and approved.  It is actually in the regulations and giving a cadet advice to ignore it may work in your squadron and/or wing...but I can guarantee that is not the case everywhere.  My advice to him was to seek advice or submit his request to the chain.  I understand some of the rules are redundant and just bureaucracy for bureaucracy sake.  But it is still an organizational rule that we have agreed to abide by.  When I see silly Items like this I forward it to my chain of command to request changes or deletions, but until that's done I have agreed to comply with the rules the best way that I can.  Just because we are volunteers doesn't mean we can't do things in a professional manner.

[Eclipse]

The most current 35-6 is a decade old and pretty much predates everything we do today.  It was written before eServices existed.

Also, this is certainly not happening and doesn't even match the system as it exists today:

5.  Procedures for Awarding Aeronautical Ratings, Emergency Services (ES) and Ground Team Badges, and ES Patches:
a. Awards requests will automatically be generated when requirements for qualifications or certifications are earned
and posted in the national headquarters qualification and certification system, but members may be required to provide proof
of completion in order for commanders to approve awards properly. 

Up until the current ability of eServices to track the award of badges, anyone who believed this was necessary had to do it on a 2a, as an
"other", since there was literally no process to accommodate badge approval and no place to track them (beyond the file), once they were
approved.  I received more than one back from wing with a comment they were "unnecessary".

[SARDOC]

Thanks for Highlighting that quote.  That means the "REQUEST" must be generated automatically...it still has to be approved.


Yes, many Civil Air Patrol regulations are woefully outdated...That doesn't mean that we don't have to comply with them because deep down we know that they have outlived their usefulness.  We need to change them and update them.  When we all joined this organization we all agreed to comply with the rules...not just the ones we like.  Picking and choosing is VERY convenient but when exceptions are made it must be fair and consistent across the board with the best interests of the organization in mind.  Make recommendations through your chain to address changes.

[Eclipse]

^ I agree on paper, but the regs are so chock full of inconsistencies, inaccuracies, omissions, and self-conflict that each year it
gets more and more difficult to just "make like Nike".

And that doesn't even account for the places where standard practice is different from the reg(s), or that the systems have overtaken and
passed them.

[SARDOC]

It always make me wonder how hard is it to really update these policies.  Open the policies, correct glaring errors and omissions and submit for review and open public comment period...take viable suggestions implement them into the policy.  Publish.  Can be done annually or at least biannually.  Not sure what the major hurdles are.

[Eclipse]

^ Ditto.  We've "fixed" them here 10 times over. 

Mistakes happen, but once they are pointed out, it's is somewhat baffling why they aren't immediately fixed.

[lordmonar]

It always make me wonder how hard is it to really update these policies.  Open the policies, correct glaring errors and omissions and submit for review and open public comment period...take viable suggestions implement them into the policy.  Publish.  Can be done annually or at least biannually.  Not sure what the major hurdles are.

Why even have an ope public comment period?  Task one of your experinced staffers to re-write/correct the reg....have him submit it to you (national CC) sign the bloody thing and get it out to the field!

The problem right now is...the National CC must submit all changes to NB/NEC for approval!  Stupid, stupid, stupid!  CAP-USAF has commented many times at the NB that they don't think the NB should be in the regs writing buisness.

[Al Sayre]

It's a simple question. I was unsure.

See what you started...

[RiverAux]

The problem right now is...the National CC must submit all changes to NB/NEC for approval!

Actually that is not how it works.  NB/NEC/BOG sets the general policy.  NHQ actually writes the regulation and it is approved by the National Commander.  It is sent out for review to those groups but they don't approve the regulation itself. 

So, for example, Tuesday morning NHQ could spend an hour incorporating all the existing supplements into 39-1 and send it out for review and comment and the CC could approve it all before the next meeting of any of those boards.  Now, if they wanted to say eliminate the Pluto patch (to bring this back around to the thread topic somewhat) that would be a policy decision and would need to be approved by the NB/NEC/BOG but once approved it can be put into the regulation itself without any more explicit approval from them.

Now, where it becomes trickier is how much can NHQ and the CC change the regulation while staying within existing policy?  5-4 gives explicit permission for them to change some things as needed. 

[SARDOC]

Why even have an ope public comment period?  Task one of your experinced staffers to re-write/correct the reg....have him submit it to you (national CC) sign the bloody thing and get it out to the field!

The problem right now is...the National CC must submit all changes to NB/NEC for approval!  Stupid, stupid, stupid!  CAP-USAF has commented many times at the NB that they don't think the NB should be in the regs writing buisness.

The Purpose of the Open Comment Period allows for members to point out errors or creative suggestions that might be beneficial to us as an organization.  Those Experienced staffers may just leave things in place just because that was the way that we have always done it.  Open Comment periods help challenge the Status Quo.  The membership feels better if they have an opportunity to impact the way this organization moves.  People may surprise you.  It allows the membership an opportunity to get the "Buy In" where your organizational management than has better compliance with those regs when the membership believes it's the best it can be.

I've been part of an organization where all the policies came down from the administrative staffers that haven't worked the field in 20 years and  most of the time it showed.  We created an SOP committee we created the open comment period made them available to the SME's in the field who made relevant and timely suggestions making the policy much more efficient.   

Besides...what does it hurt to have one?  Especially when we've already waited over ten years for some policies, if something occurs that requires an immediate change issue an Interim Change Letter than correct the policy within the time specified in the regulations including an open Comment Period.

[SarDragon]

Back to the ES patch thing - the request is NOT automatically generated in eServices. You need to follow the bouncing ball, as detailed above, and get it into the system.

ES Ratings will get you:
CAP Basic Emergency Services Qualification Badge
CAP Senior Emergency Services Qualification Badge
CAP Master Emergency Services Qualification Badge
CAP Basic Ground Team Badge
CAP Senior Ground Team Badge
CAP Master Ground Team Badge
CAP Emergency Services Patch

CAP Ratings will get you:
Cadet Pre-Solo Pilot Rating
Solo Pilot Rating
Pilot Rating
Senior Pilot Rating
Command Pilot Rating
Glider Pilot Rating
Balloon Pilot Rating
CAP Observer Rating Remove
CAP Senior Observer Rating
CAP Master Observer Rating

This is an online substitute for the 2a we used to use for these things.

For the most part, if you want to wear something on your uniform, it needs to be authorized somewhere, either with a 2a, or in eServices.