Honorable Service Award

[SarDragon]

I spent 21 years on active duty. I don't think there is a single thing I did during that time that I got credit for in CAP. Unless you are an E-7 or above, it's hard to get credit for military accomplishments.

YMMV.

[Cecil DP]

Those who have served in the military are already recognized for that through special promotions and credit for various schools they have completed. 

So now you're telling me that everyone with military time is getting credit for all their service by promotions and school credit. I can tell you that is not accurate in all cases. If there is even a large majority, I invite you to prove it with verifiable facts. I doubt you can.

It's mainly the OP's who get credit for military experience for promotion purposes, Though several enlisted schools are transferable for PME credit

What he said...

[RiverAux]

Another reason for not having this ribbon is that it could violate the general principle that awards should be given for actions not long before the award is presented.  In other words, you don't put in for an award for something that you did 10 years ago.  In this case we would be giving an award for something that someone may have done 40+ years ago, though this would of course vary depending on the age of the CAP member and when they served.

Now, of course every now and again we see stories about someone getting a purple heart that they did not get back when they should have, but those usually involve some sort of paperwork snafu. 

[ColonelJack]

I don't wish to presume to speak for Major Shaw, but ...

This proposal is not really for an award one would earn for completing a training level or accomplishing something excellent.  It's rather a recognition of prior military service that would be authorized to be worn on the CSU.

Nobody would have to wear it if they chose not to do so; it's being offered as an idea, I believe, so that those who have served -- or are serving -- can be recognized as such on the corporate uniforms, since military ribbons and badges are (for some silly reason) a no-no.

Do I have that right, Major?

Jack

[D2SK]

Common sense would say that an organization gives awards to its members for activities the members perform on behalf of that organization and if that member belongs to other groups, let them worry about giving that person awards for stuff they do for them.

Heck, if I don't even have to be on CAP time to earn a CAP ribbon, there isn't really any reason to restrict what ribbons CAP members can wear to ones awarded by military services (or authorized by them).  Why not let police and firefighters wear their ribbons on CAP uniform?  Heck, lets make a Police Service ribbon for wear on the CAP uniform.  Are you a doctor?  Lets have a Medical Service ribbon. 

After considerable analysis, I've determined that you blow a lot of hot air.

Here's an example of a Army enlisted person receiving a military award for his work as a volunteer firefighter.

http://www.agd.state.tx.us/36id/Content/news/36IDNews/stories/SoldiersMedal/SoldiersMedal.htm

I'm sure that just tears your guts up.

[davedove]

The notion of not giving awards for actions done while not on duty isn't born out by the services.  Now, a person may think that is inappropriate, but the different services do it.  I can't speak for all of them, but the Army gives medals for soldiers performing actions while off duty, they have awards for civilians performing actions while outside of work, and they even have decorations for people outside the Army family performing actions.

[jb512]

Common sense would say that an organization gives awards to its members for activities the members perform on behalf of that organization and if that member belongs to other groups, let them worry about giving that person awards for stuff they do for them.

Heck, if I don't even have to be on CAP time to earn a CAP ribbon, there isn't really any reason to restrict what ribbons CAP members can wear to ones awarded by military services (or authorized by them).  Why not let police and firefighters wear their ribbons on CAP uniform?  Heck, lets make a Police Service ribbon for wear on the CAP uniform.  Are you a doctor?  Lets have a Medical Service ribbon. 

After considerable analysis, I've determined that you blow a lot of hot air.

Here's an example of a Army enlisted person receiving a military award for his work as a volunteer firefighter.

http://www.agd.state.tx.us/36id/Content/news/36IDNews/stories/SoldiersMedal/SoldiersMedal.htm

I'm sure that just tears your guts up.

Perfect example. 

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like some people in CAP are resentful or indifferent to CAP members with military service.  I always thought CAP should embrace the military and "dual" members since that's our closest tie, but it doesn't seem to be the case.  I don't understand that.

[Gunner C]

I'm sure that just tears your guts up.

That, Buzz, was uncalled for.  "At ease"; take a break.

[RiverAux]

This proposal is not really for an award one would earn for completing a training level or accomplishing something excellent.  It's rather a recognition of prior military service that would be authorized to be worn on the CSU.

It is recognition in the form of an decoration which is what a ribbon and/or medal are.   

[jb512]

This proposal is not really for an award one would earn for completing a training level or accomplishing something excellent.  It's rather a recognition of prior military service that would be authorized to be worn on the CSU.

It is recognition in the form of an decoration which is what a ribbon and/or medal are.   

Ok, so award me, recognize me, or decorate me.  Whichever term you choose to use, the meaning behind this ribbon is not much different than many lower military awards which is the point they're all trying to make.

[ol'fido]

I attend my weekly meetings and various other CAP activities, but I am a member of CAP 24/7. So is everyone who pays their dues. If somenone does something outside of their normal CAP duties, in uniform or out, that reflects the good character and ideals of CAP, then they should be recognized for it. In fact, there's a line like that in many of the medal citations I have read.

We are a CIVILIAN but UNIFORMED auxilliary of a military service, the United States Air Force. We are not an auxilliary of the police, fire, or EMS services honorable and dedicated as they may be. Our uniforms and customs/courtesies are rooted not just in regulations, but in traditions of the service.

I believe we must honor those traditions as we debate our uniform changes and regulations. We don't have to get stuck in the past but we should appreciate it and the men who forged those traditions...Our VETERANS.

So put me down as for this proposal.

[James Shaw]

Common sense would say that an organization gives awards to its members for activities the members perform on behalf of that organization and if that member belongs to other groups, let them worry about giving that person awards for stuff they do for them.

Heck, if I don't even have to be on CAP time to earn a CAP ribbon, there isn't really any reason to restrict what ribbons CAP members can wear to ones awarded by military services (or authorized by them).  Why not let police and firefighters wear their ribbons on CAP uniform?  Heck, lets make a Police Service ribbon for wear on the CAP uniform.  Are you a doctor?  Lets have a Medical Service ribbon. 

Where are my chest waders - it's getting deep around here.


CAPHistorian, given the attitudes of some of the members here, I am starting to wish you hadn't brought it up.

I'm through here.

Lock please...

So am I!

[RickFranz]

I for one, am one of those folks that for the for seeable future will only be able to wear the Corp. Uniform.  It would be nice to be recognized for my past service.  

On the other hand, I have seen a lot of folks that will not even wear a CAP ribbon on the AF style uniform because they have so many ribbons from there active duty "Glory Days".  

Maybe the way to handle this is to say here is your Honorable Service ribbon to put on your Civil Air Patrol uniform.  Thank you for your service, but please wear what you earn here in this organization on our uniform and put the active duty awards on your active duty uniform or in a nice shadow box.

[O-Rex]

The idea has merit.

If this goes through, I'd think that it would be for ribbon sets worn on the corp uniforms ONLY  or if worn on the AF style uniform it could be worn in lieu of mil awards, but not both.  If the purpose is to show mil service, IMHO wearing the proposed ribbon plus mil awards would be double-dipping.

[jimmydeanno]

The idea has merit.

If this goes through, I'd think that it would be for ribbon sets worn on the corp uniforms ONLY  or if worn on the AF style uniform it could be worn in lieu of mil awards, but not both.  If the purpose is to show mil service, IMHO wearing the proposed ribbon plus mil awards would be double-dipping.

That's what the proposal says...

Wear policy for this award would allow veterans to wear it in lieu of their military awards on the AF uniforms, meaning they would wear either their military ribbons or the CAP HMSA, but not both.

[PORed]

I agree that there a few people here forget that they are a part of USAF Aux and forget the USAF is part of the military. As for what ribbons, medals and badges can be worn CAP falls under USAF regulations not what the NLO thinks or any member here thinks. Back to the Honorable Service Award I think that it is a great idea and would be a great way for prior service enlisted and officers to show their military service. I think we forget that it is easy for NCO's to show their service with wearing their Stripes, but what of E-2 - E-4 and the Officer ranks. This fills in that gap and also the NCOs that wear CAP officer rank as opposed to enlisted rank.

[PaulR]

I attend my weekly meetings and various other CAP activities, but I am a member of CAP 24/7. So is everyone who pays their dues. If somenone does something outside of their normal CAP duties, in uniform or out, that reflects the good character and ideals of CAP, then they should be recognized for it. In fact, there's a line like that in many of the medal citations I have read.

We are a CIVILIAN but UNIFORMED auxilliary of a military service, the United States Air Force. We are not an auxilliary of the police, fire, or EMS services honorable and dedicated as they may be. Our uniforms and customs/courtesies are rooted not just in regulations, but in traditions of the service.

I believe we must honor those traditions as we debate our uniform changes and regulations. We don't have to get stuck in the past but we should appreciate it and the men who forged those traditions...Our VETERANS.

So put me down as for this proposal.

I dont think that this point can be said any better!

[cap235629]

I can live with this other than it's order of precedence.  If it is meant to replace military decorations, I feel it should be worn like military decorations, above all other CAP awards

[Always Ready]

I can live with this other than it's order of precedence.  If it is meant to replace military decorations, I feel it should be worn like military decorations, above all other CAP awards

I think replace is the wrong word for it. My brain isn't exactly working so I can't think of a better word at the moment.

The Honorable Military Service Award will replace the military ribbons in the sense you can't wear both at the same time. However, it will not be a direct replacement for the military ribbons. It is a *potential* CAP award for CAP members and is not awarded by a military service; therefore, it is not a military ribbon/award and should not be placed at the top of the CAP order of precedence. The proposal places it exactly where it should go...IMHO

The ribbon would be worn above the Commander's Commendation and below the Meritorious Service Medal.

[swamprat86]

in lieu of