NHQ Uniform Committee

[Eeyore]

I've really never met someone who wasn't associated with the military that has known that only the Army wears the flag. In fact when people have stopped and asked me what I was they have never asked if I was army, they always assume something else.

Now, the cause of that could be that I have never lived near an Army base, I have only lived near Air Force, Marine Corps and Navy bases, therefore most assume I am one of those services while in uniform.

I do not see the flag as an issue and am proud to wear the flag on my shoulder.

[jb512]

The CAP over the US looks too weird.  We only need one set of CAP initials whether it be on the epaulets (blue preferred), hard wired to the epaulet with hard rank, or on the collar with no CAPs on the shoulder.

[BigMojo]

I've stayed away from this thread, but had an idea inspired by my Utility Uniform Coverall thread below. As an option for doing UDF stuff, last minute call outs from work where you don't have time to change, etc...

The idea is to give it a nice look, but differentiate it from the nomex bags. I personally don't want to be associated as a silver winged sun god er pilot/observer  so this gives a good look for us ground pounders, who don't always have the time to run home and get into BDUs.

PS: NOT recommending for field use in the woods, swamps, etc, where the rip-stop BDU is needed. Only for use in Urban Environments, Ramps, Hangers, Marinas, Mission Base, etc.

[JohnKachenmeister]

OK, It doesn't look too bad.  Clearly different from a flight suit. 

Most guys want to look MORE like pilots, though.  Pilots are cool and chicks dig us.

[afgeo4]

I don't care for the flag on our BDU's. It associates us with the Army more than the Air Force, and that is the wrong direction to take.

I wholly disagree with this statement.  The US flag associates the wearer with the United States of America (never a wrong direction to take). It just so happens that our placement is the same as the US Army.

I never cared for sleeve insignia in the first place on CAP uniforms.

As far as the flag goes, compare the CAP BDU to an Army one. Then an Air Force one. Then a Navy one. I'll leave the Marines out, since their uniform is drastically different.

Which two of the above uniforms wear the American flag on the right sleeve? As such, which uniforms are going to be more closely associated?

Since the flag was going to be worn, it was probably more appropriate on the left arm. Could have used the flightsuit stock. We also wouldn't have had people putting flags on the right arm of the flightsuits.

USMC Fatigues (BDUs) were no different than BDUs of any other branch.

New USMC uniforms (MARPAT) are as different from what we wear as new Army (ACU), Air Force (ABU), Navy (NWU) or Coast Guard (ODU).

Thus.. what's your point?

[ddelaney103]

Oh, hell no.

DO NOT give us two identical uniforms, then give us two different sets of insignia and two ways to place them on the suit.  That way lies madness.

If you don't want to look like aircrew, wear BBDU's

[mikeylikey]

OK....so reading the other thread on the new VSAF operation, what Polo shirt and Khaki pants combo are they referring to?  Is that a new combo yet to be released or is it something that will be presented at the next national conference.

[RogueLeader]

OK, It doesn't look too bad.  Clearly different from a flight suit. 

Most guys want to look MORE like pilots, though.  Pilots are cool and chicks dig us.

1) The tapes are bass ackwards and
2)

Oh, hell no.

DO NOT give us two identical uniforms, then give us two different sets of insignia and two ways to place them on the suit.  That way lies madness.

If you don't want to look like aircrew, wear BBDU's

[ZigZag911]

The tapes look ridiculous, which probably explains why flight suits use the leather tags!

[Pylon]

With regards to the utility uniform above:

The uniform committee is looking to pair down CAP's corporate uniforms to a one-for-one with the AF-style uniforms.   In other words, one service dress in AF-style, one style of service dress in corporates - one flying uniform in AF-style, one flying uniform in corporates. 

The Blue Utility Uniform does not equate to anything in the AF closet.  I fail to see how it provides any significant enough advantages over the Blue BDUs or the Blue flight suit to warrant adding a whole new uniform to our already unwieldy repertoire.

Someone aptly said, very recently, that CAP functions can often look more like a NATO conference than anything else.  A chief complaint of many CAP members is that we have so many uniforms.  Creating new ones, new variations, or perpetuating existing uniforms that duplicate efforts simply prolongs those issues.  Our committee aims for simplicity, one-for-one corporate and AF-style closets with only two exceptions (golf shirt and blazer combo), and minimum impact on the members' wallets.

[ZigZag911]

Our committee aims for simplicity, one-for-one corporate and AF-style closets with only two exceptions (golf shirt and blazer combo), and minimum impact on the members' wallets.

Admirable and worthwhile effort, hopefully a successful one eventually -- but the tapes still look ridiculous, please consider some alternative!

[Pylon]

Admirable and worthwhile effort, hopefully a successful one eventually -- but the tapes still look ridiculous, please consider some alternative!

What tapes?  You have to be more specific?

[ZigZag911]

"Civil Air Patrol" and Name Tape set on diagonals over diagonal pockets; they just look dumb, leather aircrew patch is a more professional looking alternative.

[Pylon]

"Civil Air Patrol" and Name Tape set on diagonals over diagonal pockets; they just look dumb, leather aircrew patch is a more professional looking alternative.

That's not anything currently being considered.  Blue BDUs and Blue Flightsuits is what we are proposing be kept as is.  I will propose that the Blue Utility Uniform be phased out.

[pixelwonk]

The Blue Utility Uniform does not equate to anything in the AF closet.  I fail to see how it provides any significant enough advantages over the Blue BDUs or the Blue flight suit to warrant adding a whole new uniform to our already unwieldy repertoire.

Someone aptly said, very recently, that CAP functions can often look more like a NATO conference than anything else.  A chief complaint of many CAP members is that we have so many uniforms.  Creating new ones, new variations, or perpetuating existing uniforms that duplicate efforts simply prolongs those issues.  Our committee aims for simplicity, one-for-one corporate and AF-style closets with only two exceptions (golf shirt and blazer combo), and minimum impact on the members' wallets.

Anyone can purchase a green or blue zoom bag for a substantial bit of coin.
The option to obtain a free used green one that the squadron gets from military sources is available to most folks, if they ask around.  Heck, even eBay isn't a bad deal.

Not so much with the navy-colored bag.

Think of it this way, the inexpensiveness of the blue utility suit is what makes it attractive.  You still have a distinctive CAP uniform that equates to an AF one, albeit of a different fabric.  Why take it away from those who wear it, only to force them into buying something way more six times more expensive?

I'd take my folks wearing a blue utility suit instead of the golf shirt at meetings any day.

[ddelaney103]

"Civil Air Patrol" and Name Tape set on diagonals over diagonal pockets; they just look dumb, leather aircrew patch is a more professional looking alternative.

That's not anything currently being considered.  Blue BDUs and Blue Flightsuits is what we are proposing be kept as is.  I will propose that the Blue Utility Uniform be phased out.

Why?  It looks like the flight suit (so it doesn't make us any less "uniform") but is $180 cheaper.

And before you drag out the safety argument, save it.  Unless we start loading up our Cessna's with a few thousand pounds of JP-8 and have people shoot at us with Armor Piercing Incendiary, the safety argument for aramid doesn't wash.

[cap235629]

[quote author=Pylon link=topic=3540.msg77427#msg77427 date=1200025997
That's not anything currently being considered.  Blue BDUs and Blue Flightsuits is what we are proposing be kept as is.  I will propose that the Blue Utility Uniform be phased out.
[/quote]

Why not keep the Blue Utility Uniform as and alternative to the Blue Nomex Flightsuit, for flight operations only maybe calling it the NON-NOMEX flightsuit, as a cost to member item.  $40.00 beats $300.00 anyday and we are NOT mandated anywhere to wear Nomex, otherwise we wouldn't be allowed to wear anything BUT Nomex uniforms when flying.

[DNall]

just a point of order... there are some wings that do mandate nomex for flying, some all the time & some just for mission flying. As someone who has had a friend die because of an aircraft fire in a single engine GA aircraft training for CAP, and knowing from experience how much more risky much of our mission flying is than standard GA, I personally place some merit in the safety argument.

[BigMojo]

Just a point of clarification on why I posted that utility uniform... Not everyone in this organization flies, or even wants to fly, or look like they fly. I'm one of them (call me crazy, many already do) I have nothing but respect for our mission aircrews, I just prefer ground ops.

The utility uniform needs to remain an option. It is a low cost option that allows for and easy and quick way to get into uniform for a UDF mission. I'm my specific area, if we have coordinates, we can get a ground team together, on site, and within 100yards of an EPIRB or ELT before a flight crew has finished getting ready and pre-flighted. There isn't always a place to change pants that's publically acceptable, and being able to put a t-shirt on slide a coverall over work slacks makes a great option, and financially feasible, for under $40 I can have that neatly folded in my truck at all times, which for the same money, I can only buy a BDU blouse. In the end, it puts people on-scene faster, which leads to quicker de-activations, which makes everyone happy.

In the end, I felt I could improve upon an existing option, make it distinctive, give it a purpose, and keep it cheap. (I can get all needed patches/tapes for less than the cost of 1 leather name tag). The reason behind going with tapes over a tag was for readability at a distance for general public, because you can't read a leather tag from more than 2ft away. Orient them on the uniform how you want, I just followed pocket lines to go with the cut. For clarification, I am not proposing this for anything Flight Operation Oriented, just ground work, in an urban environment. I may not want to look like a pilot, conversely, do pilots want us lowly ground pounders looking like them?

BTW...the BBDU needs to go away. As the BDU is being phased out by the USAF, make the woodland BDU that standard for both those that meet weight and grooming, and the fuzzy/fluffy's.

[Grumpy]

BTW...the BBDU needs to go away. As the BDU is being phased out by the USAF, make the woodland BDU that standard for both those that meet weight and grooming, and the fuzzy/fluffy's.

Why would you want a woodland BDU for a ground team?  I would think than while looking to an aircraft in some mountainous area you would want to be seen.  Our wing uses orange shirts so they can be seen from the air.