NHQ Uniform Committee

[ddelaney103]

I missed this - when did we get authorized metal grade for the BBDU cap?

[AlphaSigOU]

I missed this - when did we get authorized metal grade for the BBDU cap?

See the Jun 2006 Corporate Uniform interim change letter. Kinda came in under the radar.

[ddelaney103]

I missed this - when did we get authorized metal grade for the BBDU cap?

See the Jun 2006 Corporate Uniform interim change letter. Kinda came in under the radar.

Oh Mighty Zarquon...

What is this obsession with metal grade insignia?  We're like the Tin Woodsman, off to see the Wizard AF for the bling that will make everything better.

[riffraff]

Black epaulettes already exist - viz-a-viz those used by the US Army officers.

Black? For the life of me I thought they were Army green.

No, The Army changed to black back in the very late 1980s, IIRC.

[AlphaSigOU]

Oh Mighty Zarquon...

What is this obsession with metal grade insignia?  We're like the Tin Woodsman, off to see the Wizard AF for the bling that will make everything better.

Beats me, boss...   But ya gotta remember: to some, bling is eveyrthing!

And then there are some who are either too lazy to sew on cloth insignia or don't wanna pay a tailor to get it done.

[JayT]

Here's another thing that may need to be addressed for consideration by the committee:

Dark Blue Corporate Flight Suit and Utility Uniform (aka blue "faux flight suit") Headgear:

Either flight cap (from blues) or blue patrol cap from the CAP DFU (aka "Blue BDU") may be worn. Grade insignia, if worn on patrol cap, may be either ultramarine blue background (to match CAP DFU) or dark blue background to match embroidered dark blue background grade insignia (if worn) on corporate flight suit/utility uniform. (If dark blue is selected as the new nametape color then just keep dark blue.)

Flight cap/patrol cap is not worn in a FOD-critical area (flight line).

Flight cap/patrol cap may be stowed in either lower leg pocket of the blue flight suit/utility uniform; the pocket where the cap is stowed may remain unzipped and a portion of the flight cap/patrol cap may remain exposed. Pocket will remain zipped in a FOD critical area (flight line).

Questions, comments, groans, rotten tomatoes from the peanut gallery? 

Definately. A plain dark blue Rothco baseball cap would also be nice (like how you can wear a BDU baseball cap with regular BDUs.)

[Hawk200]

What is this obsession with metal grade insignia?  We're like the Tin Woodsman, off to see the Wizard AF for the bling that will make everything better.

Simple. Lot easier to change when that promotion rolls around. Less money too. You want to spend seven or eight bucks on new epaulets for your service coat, or a couple dollars for some pin-on rank?

[JohnKachenmeister]

Army Epaulets used to be green for officers and black for NCO's.  About 8 or 10 years ago, they shifted to all black for everybody.

[DNall]

...Is that an epaulet, or an actual shoulder board on those coats?

AFROTC. It's a shoulderboard. It's fuzzy like a new beret, kind of fat & shaped sort of concaved so it'll curve over & obscure the actual epaulet, and as you can see it has a button on top to simulate being the epaulet. They do require the officer coat to be worn as they are affixed to the epaulet of the coat & would not attach to the jacket properly (you can't rig that up). That said, the same issues still come up. It's too expensive to produce/purchase, and it's not consolidating to one item worn on blue & white shirt, and Corp & AF coats. Putting all eggs in that one basket means higher volume lower cost, & a cleaner look.

What is this obsession with metal grade insignia? 

Simple. Lot easier to change when that promotion rolls around. Less money too. You want to spend seven or eight bucks on new epaulets for your service coat, or a couple dollars for some pin-on rank?

Actually, metal costs about the same as the epaulets. I personally prefer metal on hats becuase, I think it's a cleaner apperance even versus an OD background, much less dark or royal blue. I also don't really like the idea of trying to sew the stuff on straight.

[BillB]

Ask cadet officers what they think about shoulder boards, and you'll find they dislike them. The National CAC has even proposed that they be dropped in favor of the slides cadets already have without that $29.00 cost of shoulder boards. On the average senior member shoulder boards would look dumb on AF style uniforms. May be OK for CG Aux, but not for CAP.

[DNall]

Ask cadet officers what they think about shoulder boards, and you'll find they dislike them. The National CAC has even proposed that they be dropped in favor of the slides cadets already have without that $29.00 cost ...

A couple cadets have mentioned that. I think we've covered why shoulder boards can't be an option. That's a good idea though. I'd support dropping the cadet shoulder boards in favor of their standard blue epaulet slides (just like the shirt).

[Hawk200]

AFROTC. It's a shoulderboard. It's fuzzy like a new beret, kind of fat & shaped sort of concaved so it'll curve over & obscure the actual epaulet, and as you can see it has a button on top to simulate being the epaulet. They do require the officer coat to be worn as they are affixed to the epaulet of the coat & would not attach to the jacket properly (you can't rig that up).

There's a way, I'm sure. I just haven't kickstarted the imagination yet.

Actually, metal costs about the same as the epaulets.

First I was looking at the AAFES website, and was in serious disagreement. Then I checked out Vanguard, and on there, epaulets are the same as metal. Which is a seriously jacked system.

On AAFES, a set of bright metal captains bars are $1.75. On Vanguard, a set are $7.00. Why are we putting with this crap? That is ridiculous.

Anyway, going with the AAFES rate, you pay $9 for a pair of epaulets, and a set of rank insignia. If you already had a set of shoulder boards, then it would only cost you that much. With two pair epaulets, it's $14.

Then again, Vanguard might have a cow if we went with something that they couldn't exclusively sell us.

[Tim Medeiros]

Is that an epaulet, or an actual shoulder board on those coats? Can't quite tell due to the angle of the picture and the resolution.

According to my AFROTC class, and current friends in AFROTC, those are epaulets.  Shoulder boards are only used on mess dress.  Personally, I liked the use of epaulets on the service jacket, kept the number of items needed from supply down.  Then again, being a former cadet in CAP, I'm not fond of the shoulder boards currently in use for cadets as the velcro that comes with them is crap.  5 little dots maybe a quarter-inch in diameter, and they don't hold at all to the jacket so the first time you go to salute you have an instant projectile traveling towards C/Amn Snuffy at the back of the formation.

[SJFedor]

I thought so. At first, I didn't even think they had GMC shoulder boards, only epaulets, and the shoulder boards were POC types. I looked online, and was proved wrong.

But, if you look REALLY close, you can see the installed AF epaulet from the jacket on the medial side of the black epaulets.

I think black would look real good on us, as well.

[Grumpy]

I don't, just for the simple reason that black is Army and the Air Force is our parent organization.

[Hawk200]

I don't, just for the simple reason that black is Army and the Air Force is our parent organization.

You know, the Army doesn't have any ownership on the color black. And these are Air Force uniforms.

But to address another point, are we going to end up with people confusing us with AFROTC cadets if we had black epaulets?

[baronet68]

Oh Mighty Zarquon...

What is this obsession with metal grade insignia?  We're like the Tin Woodsman, off to see the Wizard AF for the bling that will make everything better.

I have two theories:

1. People want what they can't have.
2. Some might think since the 'real' AF has metal insignia that if CAP had it then they'd be 'real' too. 

[JohnKachenmeister]

Or...

We only want to return to the condition that CAP was once in.

Metal rank on the shoulders of the service dress blue was at one time a normal part of the uniform.

[arajca]

Or...

We only want to return to the condition that CAP was once in.

Metal rank on the shoulders of the service dress blue was at one time a normal part of the uniform.

As were blue shoulder slides for seniors (like AF, but with "CAP" embriodered at the top) and blue nametags on the service uniform.

[FlyingTerp]

One major issue with the wear of "Army Black" epaulets across CAP uniforms is that the CSU (TPU) without the double breasted jacket will look almost identical to the new "old" blue Army service uniform worn as a "class B."