NHQ Uniform Committee

[0]

Really?  even with our own cutouts on the epulets they've nixed? 

That was the default style WIWAC and went out with the maroon epaulet sliders.

Unless there's an acceptable compromise, such as metal grade and cutout on a plain gray epaulet, I feel we should place gray epaulet sliders on all our service uniforms: both AF and TPU based.

Less stuff in the uniform box and fewer choices, and fewer chances to make a mistake, when setting up a uniform.

The proposal is one kind of grade slide for all corp & blues combinations, jackets & shirts. It just happens to be blue slides rather than gray. Some of that is about appearance, but the more practical aspect is cost. The standard AF blue grade slides are mass produced. All vanguard has to do is embroider the CAP onto them & mark for sale, rather than maintaining a whole seperate specialty item.

I wouldn't be surprised if the cost is the about the same.  Unless they're getting some big discount on blue cloth, the touch labor (i.e. sticking it in the embroidery machine) is gonna be the same for either color.

But to play devil's advocate it would be cheaper in that they wouldn't have to order the grey any more.  By increasing the number of blue they order they would save more money by buying the supplies in bulk.

[ddelaney103]

Really?  even with our own cutouts on the epulets they've nixed? 

That was the default style WIWAC and went out with the maroon epaulet sliders.

Unless there's an acceptable compromise, such as metal grade and cutout on a plain gray epaulet, I feel we should place gray epaulet sliders on all our service uniforms: both AF and TPU based.

Less stuff in the uniform box and fewer choices, and fewer chances to make a mistake, when setting up a uniform.

The proposal is one kind of grade slide for all corp & blues combinations, jackets & shirts. It just happens to be blue slides rather than gray. Some of that is about appearance, but the more practical aspect is cost. The standard AF blue grade slides are mass produced. All vanguard has to do is embroider the CAP onto them & mark for sale, rather than maintaining a whole seperate specialty item.

I wouldn't be surprised if the cost is the about the same.  Unless they're getting some big discount on blue cloth, the touch labor (i.e. sticking it in the embroidery machine) is gonna be the same for either color.

But to play devil's advocate it would be cheaper in that they wouldn't have to order the grey any more.  By increasing the number of blue they order they would save more money by buying the supplies in bulk.

But not enough to make a difference in the price to the consumer - though Vanguard might make more money.

[0]

Well when you do a cost to profit analysis, they'd make more if it was all on one backing.  Remember they have to pay for the materials they're using.  So if there's one less type to order they can take a percentage of that money used for the greys and get more blue and have mony left over.  Thus they're already ahead of the game before they sell them.

[ddelaney103]

Well when you do a cost to profit analysis, they'd make more if it was all on one backing.  Remember they have to pay for the materials they're using.  So if there's one less type to order they can take a percentage of that money used for the greys and get more blue and have mony left over.  Thus they're already ahead of the game before they sell them.

You'll forgive if I hope our uniforms decisions don't hang on how much Vanguard can make off of us?

[0]

They'd most likely be able to charge us a little less actually as well.  Which is always a good thing. Yes at first   we'd have to pay a little more to update what we already have but after that it's not like we'd be ordering it all the time.

[Dragoon]

If you look at Vanguard's website, the grey CAP epaulets are actually cheaper than the blue USAF ones they sell!

So much for a discount.

[O-Rex]

Lt. Col White:

Maybe I missed it in earlier posts (this is a LONG thread)  but what are timeframes in the decision-making process, i.e., have the proposals been finalized?  Is it going before the next NB?

How many members make up the board?  Are there any NB or NEC members on it?

Is there anything in writing to formally establish a board, permanent or otherwise?  Might head off any future ad-hoc changes that might be co$tly to members later on. . . .

Also, it seems that someone in CAP-USAF is on the board (?)  Are they giving input on recommendations along the way, or giving initial guidlines & boundaries?

It would be nice to get a USAF nod or nay along the way, so that there are no surprises or disappointments later on.  The story I heard was that the whole corporate uniform-thing began when Gen Pineda went to the AETC CC with a proposal for pin-on rank with an enameled CAP shield for the blues (like Army unit crests,) the response to which was a resounding "No!"

I'm very curious as to the process itself: I've been harping on a CAP uniform board for years now: nice to see that we have one.

[jason.pennington]

I have a question about the Navy Air Warfare Badge.  The 39-1 says you may wear other service aviation badges/wings.  I've looked and looked and the only thing I can find on the subject is that the Navy Uniform Manual classifies this badge as an aviation badge.  Other than someone else's post, I have not found anything that says it is not an aviation badge.  I have been wearing mine for nearly 4 years now.  If someone can show me that it is not an aviation badge, and therefore not authorized, please do and I shall remove it.  Thanks for the help!

[Grumpy]

If that badge was awarded to you, wear it.  I wear my Air Police, Security Police, Security Forces badge (that should cover all the titles we've been called) with pride 1/2" above my ribbons.

[Hawk200]

I have a question about the Navy Air Warfare Badge.  The 39-1 says you may wear other service aviation badges/wings.  I've looked and looked and the only thing I can find on the subject is that the Navy Uniform Manual classifies this badge as an aviation badge.  Other than someone else's post, I have not found anything that says it is not an aviation badge.  I have been wearing mine for nearly 4 years now.  If someone can show me that it is not an aviation badge, and therefore not authorized, please do and I shall remove it.  Thanks for the help!

If the awarding branch considers it an aviation badge, then it's an aviation badge. You're in compliance with the manual.

[ddelaney103]

If that badge was awarded to you, wear it.  I wear my Air Police, Security Police, Security Forces badge (that should cover all the titles we've been called) with pride 1/2" above my ribbons.

Your SkyCop skill badge is authorized to be worn on the AF uniform, so it's authorized for the CAP suit.

The Navy Air Warfare Specialist aren't aviators in the AF sense, so I would suggest running it past Ms. Parker before popping that thing on.

[Hawk200]

The Navy Air Warfare Specialist aren't aviators in the AF sense, so I would suggest running it past Ms. Parker before popping that thing on.

The manual says "aviation" badge. It doesn't specifically say that the person that has been awarded it has to be an aviator.

[jimmydeanno]

If that badge was awarded to you, wear it.  I wear my Air Police, Security Police, Security Forces badge (that should cover all the titles we've been called) with pride 1/2" above my ribbons.

Your SkyCop skill badge is authorized to be worn on the AF uniform, so it's authorized for the CAP suit.

The Navy Air Warfare Specialist aren't aviators in the AF sense, so I would suggest running it past Ms. Parker before popping that thing on.

My last squadron had a bunch of Navy Personnel that wanted to wear there do dads (something about silver wings looking dumb ).  We just had to make the phone call to confirm, but AW wings are allowed.

[Stonewall]

If that badge was awarded to you, wear it.  I wear my Air Police, Security Police, Security Forces badge (that should cover all the titles we've been called) with pride 1/2" above my ribbons.

You wear the "skill badge", not the "security police shield", right?

Meaning, you wear this:


And you don't wear this:

[Grumpy]

That's correct.  It's the Master rating though.

[adamblank]

If that badge was awarded to you, wear it.  I wear my Air Police, Security Police, Security Forces badge (that should cover all the titles we've been called) with pride 1/2" above my ribbons.

You wear the "skill badge", not the "security police shield", right?

Meaning, you wear this:


And you don't wear this:

I have actually seen an individual wearing the SF shield, which is a big no.

[RogueLeader]

Will we still be authorized to wear Combat boots in Blues?  According to numerous AD folks, the only people that can wear CB with Class A's are Airborne.

[Pylon]

Will we still be authorized to wear Combat boots in Blues?  According to numerous AD folks, the only people that can wear CB with Class A's are Airborne.

CAPM 39-1 says yes.  We're not USAF.

[Hawk200]

Will we still be authorized to wear Combat boots in Blues?  According to numerous AD folks, the only people that can wear CB with Class A's are Airborne.

That only applies to Army personnel.  Air Force personnel have been authorized to wear combat boots with all blues combinations for a long while. I wear a set of plain black Ropers with my blues. They're more comfortable than combat boots.

Now I doubt the moldy greens will be authorized. That would just look tacky.

[DNall]

Will we still be authorized to wear Combat boots in Blues?  According to numerous AD folks, the only people that can wear CB with Class A's are Airborne.

CAPM 39-1 says yes.  We're not USAF.

But will be mirroring the AF in this regard. One of the issues with 39-1 is it was originally written to mirror the AF manual, but as the AF rules changed over time, CAP didn't do the updates. I believe we're going to be trying to link the new version of 39-1 directly to the AF manual so that changes there are automatically incorporated to our version w/o needing to consult leadership on either side - they all have better things to spend their energy on. For the record though, I do believe boots are authorized w/ blues in the AF as well, and have seen it on many occations.