NHQ Uniform Committee

[mikeylikey]

Something brought up in another thread:

AFI 36-2903, concerning belts with BDU: "Black tip of belt may extend up to 2 inches beyond the buckle facing the wearer's left; blue woven cotton web or elastic with black metal tip and matching buckle.  Black web or black riggers belt with nondescript black buckle authorized as an optional item with BDU."

One, mirror the wear criteria. Two, allow the same belts with the BDU (and I imagine the ABU). Allows shopping at the same store as the Air Force. No real reason why we can't do it. Everyone needs a belt anyway.

I hope this is addressed! 

[Smokey]

I think the idea of getting away from the cartoon color specialty badges is a good one. If we could adopt the AF badges it would eliminate one more special item for Vanguard to rip us off for. The AF badges would be available at any AF  Military Clothing store or even Vanguard  but at a lower price.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Smokey, I like the idea, but the Air Force will probably say 'no' because the criteria for earning the specialty badges in Civil Air Patrol will remain different from that for which the Air Force badge is earned.

I actually designed a proposal for those specialty badges... somewhere, I'll have to look for them. They were close enough to the Air Force insignia that you knew they were specialty badges, but they DID have the triangle-and-propeller insigne incorporated in one way or another.

If anyone has morbid curiosity to see that, I'll try to dig it up if asked.

[LtCol White]

We're drifting again. There is already a thread on this. Please stay on track guys.

[jb512]

Well, we can suggest that we wear rigger belts and change our cartoon specialty badges to all silver...

[Hawk200]

Another section that needs to be cleaned up it the section in 39-1 on Honor Guard uniforms. It was pretty much cut and pasted from whatever it was initially intact. It's not particulary well written.

Phrases such as "Items such as blah, blah, blah are not permitted" is not the way to write a anual.

Inclusive directions are more practical than exclusive ones. A simple statement such as "Items not set forth in this publication are not authorized" solves that.

If you write the statement "items such as ........ are not permitted", then someone can easily say "Well, it doesn't say can't wear it." The entire pub should basically say what you can wear.

[DNall]

I would rather see the honor guard, color guard, drill team issues addressed in a supplement (39-11 or something).

I also think we need to bring more clarity to the issue of wings being able to supplement, or rather NOT supplement, the uniform. We got tons of cadet cords out there to the extent it gets silly. We do some real good cadet professional development programs in our state that we give cords for, and that's a big incentive to attend. The reality though is wings shouldn't have such localized programs. They should be pushed together into a national program & recognized with a ribbon. I understand why we are organized by states - because of the variances in state laws, but wings need to cease behaving like fiefdoms, particularly where reflected in the uniform.

[RogueLeader]

With the new Hap Arnold Heritage Uniform* now set, when are we going to mandated to be in them.  Note that the belt will have to sit at the natural waist of the wearer.  When we go to that uniform, will a tie be required as well?  Note that the HAHU has a 'mandarin" collar so a tie won't be seen.

Been told that not Hap, Arnold that we are going to, but the Billy Mitchell.

[mikeylikey]

Been told that not Hap, Arnold that we are going to, but the Billy Mitchell.

The AF can call it whatever, but in reality the uniform they "invented" is the "Army Service Dress Jacket circa 1919". 

They basically stole it back.  If they want heritage they should try just bringing it back with everything that was on it back then.  i.e. pant stripes, branch insignia (USAAF), etc.

[billford1]

Lt Col White,   Do you have a feel for how much of what is being proposed that the USAF will accept? It seems like the primary choices on page 19 ought to be easy for them?

[Dragoon]

Personally, the gray epalets have never bothered me.  I don't think they look all that bad.  Frankly, it would be a lot easier for me to just slip on epalets rather than trying to properly position metal rank every time I wear the service coat. 

I would agree.  The grey actually looks pretty sharp.  My guess is, to USAF eyes, the grey looks fine - it's a distinctive CAP thing.  The blue looks weird "why are they wearing shirt-stuff on their coat?"

That said, if going blue is the only way to get everyone wearing the same stuff, I'll deal.  Uniformity should trump personal style.

[0]

What about wearing metal grad on shoulders and a CAP coutout on the shoulders of the AF service coat  as well?  We do this already on the black windbreaker? 

[Hawk200]

What about wearing metal grad on shoulders and a CAP coutout on the shoulders of the AF service coat  as well?  We do this already on the black windbreaker? 

That's been nixed by the Air Force a few times in the past. That's why we have the Corporate Service coat now.

[0]

Really?  even with our own cutouts on the epulets they've nixed? 

[ddelaney103]

Really?  even with our own cutouts on the epulets they've nixed? 

That was the default style WIWAC and went out with the maroon epaulet sliders.

Unless there's an acceptable compromise, such as metal grade and cutout on a plain gray epaulet, I feel we should place gray epaulet sliders on all our service uniforms: both AF and TPU based.

Less stuff in the uniform box and fewer choices, and fewer chances to make a mistake, when setting up a uniform.

[0]

Well for the corprate dress I like having the blue there.  it looks better and more professional than the grey does.

[ddelaney103]

Well for the corprate dress I like having the blue there.  it looks better and more professional than the grey does.

It's not a matter of looking "better" - it is a matter of looking like the rest of CAP.

(Say it with me!) One Team, One Fight, One uniform.

[Grumpy]

Well, we could always go back to circa 1959.  For the service coat you could put the "Chevy Patch" above the name tag, CAP cut outs on the collar and metal rank on the epaulets.  The "Chevy Patch" definitely stands out.

[DNall]

Really?  even with our own cutouts on the epulets they've nixed? 

That was the default style WIWAC and went out with the maroon epaulet sliders.

Unless there's an acceptable compromise, such as metal grade and cutout on a plain gray epaulet, I feel we should place gray epaulet sliders on all our service uniforms: both AF and TPU based.

Less stuff in the uniform box and fewer choices, and fewer chances to make a mistake, when setting up a uniform.

The proposal is one kind of grade slide for all corp & blues combinations, jackets & shirts. It just happens to be blue slides rather than gray. Some of that is about appearance, but the more practical aspect is cost. The standard AF blue grade slides are mass produced. All vanguard has to do is embroider the CAP onto them & mark for sale, rather than maintaining a whole seperate specialty item.

[Dragoon]

Really?  even with our own cutouts on the epulets they've nixed? 

That was the default style WIWAC and went out with the maroon epaulet sliders.

Unless there's an acceptable compromise, such as metal grade and cutout on a plain gray epaulet, I feel we should place gray epaulet sliders on all our service uniforms: both AF and TPU based.

Less stuff in the uniform box and fewer choices, and fewer chances to make a mistake, when setting up a uniform.

The proposal is one kind of grade slide for all corp & blues combinations, jackets & shirts. It just happens to be blue slides rather than gray. Some of that is about appearance, but the more practical aspect is cost. The standard AF blue grade slides are mass produced. All vanguard has to do is embroider the CAP onto them & mark for sale, rather than maintaining a whole seperate specialty item.

I wouldn't be surprised if the cost is the about the same.  Unless they're getting some big discount on blue cloth, the touch labor (i.e. sticking it in the embroidery machine) is gonna be the same for either color.