NHQ Uniform Committee

[Hawk200]

Just throwing it out there, see if anyone steps on it...

I would happily give up "U.S." lapel insignia if it got us metal rank back. A distinct nametag would probably be necessary, but I don't mind as long as it maintains a professional appearance. And since our NCO's probably won't be permitted to wear US brass, it would standardize us across the board.

For that matter, I wouldn't mind seeing the old "C.A.P.C." cutouts for cadets come back. Everyone wants a little history back, that would do it.

I like the brushed metal tags on coats, with the exception of the "Civil Air Patrol" above the name. It looks unbalanced. Put it below the name (similar to the old "Honor Guard" style used in the Air Force) and use the same setup for shirts/blouses as we currently wear.

I'm sure the Air Force wants colors to differentiate us, just have to pick one. I do think that we should be the same across the board, cadets and seniors in the same color tags and epaulets. And former cadets don't have to buy new tags, just new collar brass (which most unit supply sections have anyway).

[Hawk200]

Considering nametags on the ABU as well. Sage seems to pop up as a color a lot, but does anyone know of a manufacturer that even produces sage green nametapes?

I've seen foliage color ones, and a few different shades of green, but not sage. We want to reduce costs, but how are going to do that if we get stuck with only a single manufacturer that produces sage? It would be a special order for them, and they will charge us accordingly. We have much the same problem with "ultramarine blue" right now.

There is even grey available. It would be a long shot, but what if we actually requested that the Air Force use their subdued rank insignia on ABU's with grey nametapes that match the same grey as their rank insignia and embroidered badges? The worst they can tell us is "No". Those fabrics and nametapes are currently readily available.

Anyway, just a thought. Probably a complete "Hell no!" concept. Just a random brainstorm.

[Dragoon]

I'm with Dan - we should use the same insignia across as many uniforms as possible.  Sage tapes would look silly on BBDUs, so the best option is a single color for both suits.

I would actually prefer grey, but with these proposals to eliminate grey epaulets and grey slacks, grey just won't be a CAP color any more.  I'd stick with navy blue (or ultramarine if they won't let us change)

[BigMojo]

On the much embattled topic of Golf Shirts and Slacks....

How 'bout this...

WHITE Golf Shirt, with the slacks from your AF Blues/Corp TPU's. Color variation solved and it's just a "more casual" version of the aviator/light blue shirt w/ no tie. Basically every has or will have need for the blue slacks, so this will save money in the long run.

[Hawk200]

On the much embattled topic of Golf Shirts and Slacks....

How 'bout this...

WHITE Golf Shirt, with the slacks from your AF Blues/Corp TPU's. Color variation solved and it's just a "more casual" version of the aviator/light blue shirt w/ no tie. Basically every has or will have need for the blue slacks, so this will save money in the long run.

White would easily get dirty, even if it's something as simple as spilled coffee during one of those missions.

Second, you don't mix blue uniform items with casual clothing items. Consider it taboo among military personnel, and in some cases well against some military services dress regs. And no, we can't justify it with "but we're not in the military!". It's a military uniform it falls under those services domain as to what is done with it.

[jimmydeanno]

Rules of fashion prohibit it too...you'd need at least a button up shirt to go with it, not a polo...

[RiverAux]

Besides our senior members need all the "slimming" advantages of a dark-colored golf shirt that they can get....

[LtCol White]

Ok guys, lets try and stay a bit more focused and back on track. We seem to be drifting a lot and we all get a bit frustrated when folks make comments that have already been covered at length in the previous pages.

Please remember that everyone's input is valued and given consideration for its merits and feasibility. We have a wide range of experience on here where many understand the uniform's history of changes and many who are so new they haven't even seen all the uniform combinations yet.

Today I read through the entire thread so far trying to pull all the feedback and suggestions so far into something that makes sense. I think I need to go to the eye doctor now.  In all this reading, I have noticed that sometimes we all get a bit frustrated because we care and feel quite strongly about our uniforms and wanting to carry on the tradition of pride and distinction. As you all know this is quite a daunting task for everyone involved and the members of the committe are committed to getting it right and wanting to get as many ideas from members here as we can. If I've seemed short with anyone, please don't take it personal, it wasn't my intention. In particular, Mikeylikey, perhaps I was a bit hard on you. Sorry about that.

That being said, lets all try and stay on track and if you must drift, drift on over to a new thread on your particular issue or see if there is already another thread where it has or is being discussed.

We're making great progress here guys and its all do to the input we are receiving from you the members. We have an opportunity to really fix our uniforms to continue promoting CAP for the outstanding organization that it is.

[mikeylikey]

^ Not a problem.....I am also to blame, I may have come off as a Jerk on a few instances, never my intention.  I apologize.

It's tough re-reading 24 pages of posts, I commend you.

[ddelaney103]

I think it would be a good idea to close this thread and open another one starting with your current vision of what the uniforms should be.  This would avoid "biting off on chaff" and allow focusing on a smaller subset of ideas.

[LtCol White]

I think it would be a good idea to close this thread and open another one starting with your current vision of what the uniforms should be.  This would avoid "biting off on chaff" and allow focusing on a smaller subset of ideas.

Actually its better to keep it all in one place. It makes it easier for all of us to put the ideas together if we know its all in the same thread.

[scooter]

Been reviewing the comments over the current 25 pages. There is a lot of comment about the rank insignia, cloth, metal, etc. Here's a thought, just do away with rank on  all senior uniforms except the AF blues and white shirt combo. Save a lot of $. We don't wear rank on the polo and no one seems to have difficulty figuring out who is what. On flight suits, patches identify who/what you are, no rank necessary.

[RiverAux]

We don't wear rank on the polo and no one seems to have difficulty figuring out who is what.

Actually we do.  I don't like people wandering around mission base who I can't pretty easily identify. 

[jayleswo]

Lt Col White,

Just wondered if you were also soliciting feedback on potential uniform changes (improvements) at http://www.cadetstuff.org/ in the Uniforms/Dress & Appearance topic of their Forum section. It doesn't seem what we have that much cadet participation here on cap-talk whereas you get quite a bit there.

John Aylesworth, Lt Col
Commander, PCR-CA-151

[Eclipse]

We don't wear rank on the polo and no one seems to have difficulty figuring out who is what.

Actually we do.  I don't like people wandering around mission base who I can't pretty easily identify. 

Ditto - I hate the shirts with no name on them...

[arajca]

Don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but do something about the first sergeant diamond. Yes or No.

[Pylon]

Don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but do something about the first sergeant diamond. Yes or No.

Already under advisement and a suggested change.  Clearly NHQ intended for it to be authorized, hence having it made and attempting to authorize it by reg changes.  I'll propose proper inclusion of it in CAPM 39-1.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Could I take a moment to review what we have so far?

1.  AF Blues:

- No change likely on weight requirements.
- Switch from gray to blue epaulet sleeves, with "CAP" identified.

2.  TPU:

- Switch from silver braid to same blue as on AF coat.
- Lose silver chinstrap from flying saucer cap.
- Switch from hard rank to blue epaulet sleeve, same as AF coat.
- Shirt to have same blue epaulet with "CAP."
- "CAP" lapel brass to remain.
- Allow neatly-trimmed beards, but NOT long hair.
- Not resolved:  wear of military ribbons and badges... Same rules as on AF coat?

3.  White and Grays:

- History.

4.  Flight Suits:

- Retain dual flight suits, sage green and dark blue.
- Sew-on bright rank for both shoulders.
- Sage green background for AF flight suit, dark blue for blue flight suit.
- Not resolved:  embroidered name badges?

5.  BDU's:

- Retain BDU for time being.
- Introduce ABU on a schedule driven by the AF logistical chain.
- No change to BDU during phase-out period.
- Retain blue BDU for the fats and fuzzies.
- Switch to dark blue nametapes and rank background for BBDU.
- Unresolved:  Dark blue or sage green background for ABU tapes and rank?

6.  Golf Shirt:

- Retain as a casual uniform.
- Switch to khaki trousers (Is this correct, or unresolved?)
- Establish a single authorized golf shirt.

7.  Blazer Uniform:

- Retain for IACE and as an alternate dress uniform.
- Switch to khaki trousers (Again, was this resolved?)

Does this summarize what has been discussed and decided, or do I have something wrong?

[Capt M. Sherrod]

Looks about right to me.

[LtCol White]

Yes right on target so far.