NHQ Uniform Committee

[mikeylikey]

^ I say go with what is cheaper......if it is Vanguards CAP specific rank so be it, if it is AF subdued so be it.  The rank is visible even though it is subdued.

Oh.....nice 12 pages long and hardly any fighting!  Way to go Col White for finding a topic that is awesome to add to.

[ddelaney103]

If possible, the regulation should be laid out as "fool-proof" as possible.

Part of our problem with uniforms is so much is left to the reader's judgment - a recipe for disaster around here.

Part of any revision of the uniform regs should be making the uniform easy to assemble, wear and inspect.  Along with reducing choices ("do you want the epaulets that go with the white shirt with gray slacks or the white shirt with blue slacks?") should be a document that lays it all out for you.

I could see a web site that hyper-linked areas of the uniform to the appropriate items, such as what badges can be worn on the pocket as opposed to the badges that can be worn above the pocket.

Also, questions on uniform items should be referred to the uniform board for a ruling instead of landing on Ms. Parker's desk for resolution.

These things might solve a lot of the current uniform problems.

[ddelaney103]

^ I say go with what is cheaper......if it is Vanguards CAP specific rank so be it, if it is AF subdued so be it.  The rank is visible even though it is subdued.

If we want cheaper we could just dispense with grade insignia.  Considering a promotion can cost a chunk of change, it might be worth it.

[RiverAux]

How about when your revision is finally put up on the e-services in draft form for review, that members be specifically authorized to contact the uniform committee (or whoever) directly to point out errors or contradictions?   I'm not talking about letting people make suggestions (I want dark green uniforms!), but pointing out problems only. 

Trying to get comments on regulations kicked up the chain is almost impossible and that sort of direct feedback on specific mistakes could be helpful. 

Frankly, that should be the way it should be for all draft regulations. 

Comments and suggestions about how to change the regs probably should go through the chain of command.

[LtCol White]

OK, here are the 2 proposed submissions for the ABU.

One: ABU with full color (Navy blue to be submitted)
Two: ABU with white on sage green background (OD being used here but sage matches the dark green of the ABU well.)

[RiverAux]

I like white letters with just about any dark background. 

[jayleswo]

OK, here are the 2 proposed submissions for the ABU.

One: ABU with full color (Navy blue to be submitted)
Two: ABU with white on sage green background (OD being used here but sage matches the dark green of the ABU well.)

Hello Lt Col White. I think you may have missed my suggestion back on page 3 for Gray branch tapes, name tapes and insignia for ABU as one alternative.

This was presuming USAF did not approve ABU background name and branch tapes which would be simplest and the best looking of all. Perhaps with a different color of distinctive lettering such as White or Gray letters? This would allow former/current USAF to wear badges and insignia on their CAP uniform without any difficulty (cost) in obtaining them in alternate colors and allow those badges to better match. Grade insignia would be more easily obtained since that would be unaltered. Other 3rd Party sources could be used for name tape if only the thread color for the name was different, also reducing cost. I would imagine all CAP insignia would need to be produced in ABU background pattern though, which might increase cost but conversely make for a better looking uniform.

"If additional distinctiveness is required, then specify gray branch and name tapes vs. ultramarine blue or ABU background pattern. This color would provide consistency with the gray coloration of our shoulder mark insignia and be a better match for the coloration of this uniform."

Of the two options, #2 looks better.

-- John

[Eclipse]

You know what?

I like the green, the the blue doesn't really look that bad either.

The shirt is so busy already that the blue is kind of lost.  I'd like to see it in brighter light, though.

[JC004]

^^ I saw one of these things for the first time in person, at the USO a couple of weeks ago.  It is the silliest thing.  But the Air Force is set on it.  I like the green or gray with white letters. 

[RogueLeader]

I like the green, the the blue doesn't really look that bad either.

Ditto as well.  Either would be fine with me.

[Smokey]

My vote is the green.......still distinctive but not garish.

At least though the blue is not electric smurf blue.

As for flight suit grade insignia....no we are not hiding/tactical......but the AF subdued rank is cheap and available.   If we ask for full color on green background Vanguard will charge us $5.95 instead of the $1.70 at the BX....why ...because they can as sole supplier.

[mikeylikey]

Col White thanks for the pics!  I would say either would work......but if we can get AF approval to use their color scheme that would be better.  (Just think we could then order nametapes and rank from any supplier). 

[ddelaney103]

I would prefer the blue - it's not a major break from what we're wearing now and it uses the same grade insignia as the blue jumpsuit/flightsuit.

I think the sage will be too light to have effective contrast with the white lettering for readability, but I'm saving those rounds until I see the sage nametapes.

[ddelaney103]

My vote is the green.......still distinctive but not garish.

At least though the blue is not electric smurf blue.

As for flight suit grade insignia....no we are not hiding/tactical......but the AF subdued rank is cheap and available.   If we ask for full color on green background Vanguard will charge us $5.95 instead of the $1.70 at the BX....why ...because they can as sole supplier.

Vanguard does not have sole rights to eagles, oak leaves, or bars - or green clovers and blue diamonds, for that matter.  It should be easy enough to purchase grade insignia on the open market.

[LtCol White]

I would prefer the blue - it's not a major break from what we're wearing now and it uses the same grade insignia as the blue jumpsuit/flightsuit.

I think the sage will be too light to have effective contrast with the white lettering for readability, but I'm saving those rounds until I see the sage nametapes.

The grade insignia in the photo is on a sage background.

[ddelaney103]

I would prefer the blue - it's not a major break from what we're wearing now and it uses the same grade insignia as the blue jumpsuit/flightsuit.

I think the sage will be too light to have effective contrast with the white lettering for readability, but I'm saving those rounds until I see the sage nametapes.

The grade insignia in the photo is on a sage background.

Hard to see any difference b/w them and the OD nametapes.

[LtCol White]

I would prefer the blue - it's not a major break from what we're wearing now and it uses the same grade insignia as the blue jumpsuit/flightsuit.

I think the sage will be too light to have effective contrast with the white lettering for readability, but I'm saving those rounds until I see the sage nametapes.

The grade insignia in the photo is on a sage background.

Hard to see any difference b/w them and the OD nametapes.

the rank is on a true green background and the tapes have a bit more of brown in the green. It was the closest option available to get at least a similar appearance until sage tapes would be made if approved. There is sufficient contrast in the sage/white and it goes well with the darker green of the ABU almost perfectly.

[SStradley]

Lt Col White,

Thank you for assuming this task.  Here are my suggestions:

USAF Style Uniforms
Service Dress Uniform: 1) Request that the USAF authorize the embroidered grade insignia be changed from a gray epaulet sleeve to a blue epaulet sleeve.  Keeping the embroidered "CAP".  This blue epaulet sleeve would then be worn on both the USAF style uniform and the Corporate Service Dress Uniform.  2) With respect to the weight issue:  As you know the USAF no longer has any height weight requirements.  They use a Body Mass Index method (at enlistment). We should confirm to the USAF current regulations for the USAF style uniforms (with a percentage allowance for civilians)  If the USAF requires us to keep a weight and height chart then it should be a sliding scale based upon age, with a phase out once a member has reached a certain age (perhaps 50).
Battle Dress Uniform: 1) Phase in the ABU as soon as possible. 2)  For the BDU (and later the ABU) replace the ultramarine background of the name tapes, badges and ranks with the white on green shown in your second picture above.  I have yet to have seen a cogent argument for the garish background used for our tapes and ranks on our field uniforms.  If we need to stand out in the field and the safety vests are not enough, then change the whole color of the field uniform.  However, the clash between the ultramarine blue and green of the BDU makes no sense.  3)  Authorize a "Boonie Cap" for the BDU.  In areas with a lot of sun (like Florida and Arizona) the additional protection received from the Boonie Cap is a safety issue.  4)  Retain the Jungle Boot option.  Here in Florida if you are in the field you are likely to get your feed wet.  The drains in the Jungle Boot allow the water to drain out.  (However, it remains to be seen what the hot weather version of the ABU boot will be.)
Flight Suite: 1) If the USAF will not allow a change to the weight standard for the Service Dress Uniform request it again for the Flight Suite.  The Nomex in the Flight Suite is a safety feature.  I would hate to think that a member was injured because he could not afford the option of a $265 blue Nomex Flight Suite and therefore was in a cotton flight suit or a polo shirt.  This would be a very high price to pay for the USAF's vanity.

Corporate Uniforms:
Corporate Service Dress Uniform: 1) Allow neatly trimmed beards and mustaches with the TPU. 2) Phase out the white/gray corporate uniform combination in favor of the TPU.  This should not be a problem if we allow beards and mustaches with the TPU. 3) Authorize the USAF Service Coat as the Corporate Service Coat for the TPU.  Since it would be worn over the White Aviator Shirt with the distinctive CAP gray (or blue) Epaulet Sleeve it should look sufficiently different  from the USAF uniform to avoid mistaking those members who don't meet the AF weight or facial hair requirements as AF Officers.  This will make the arguments about the sleeve trim moot, and simplify the change to the HAP uniform. 4) Authorize the USAF Light Weight Jacket (blue) with the TPU for the same reason, and phase out the Black Army Jacket.  5) Conform all badges, rank, name plates and ribbons between the TPU and the USAF Service Dress Uniform. 
BBDU: Phase out the BBDU in favor of the BDU.  As the USAF is going to the ABU for their uniform who or how the BDU is worn should no longer be a concern to the AF. 
Blue Nomex Flight Suit: Phase it out in favor of the Sage Green due to the lower cost/safety issue discussed above.
Blue Cotton Flight Suite: Phase it out.
Polo Shirt:  1) Eliminate the white silk screen version.  It looks cheep and at an $8 savings it is not worth it.  2) Suggest that the non-personalized polo shirt is for the use of Squadrons to supply to new members until they can order their own personalized Polo Shirt.  3) Encourage members to order the personalized version.  4) Authorize a gray BDU (tactical) style pant with boots for use in the field with the Polo Shirt.

Scott Stradley, Maj, CAP

[Phillip]

OK, here are the 2 proposed submissions for the ABU.

One: ABU with full color (Navy blue to be submitted)
Two: ABU with white on sage green background (OD being used here but sage matches the dark green of the ABU well.)

The White/Sage insignia really looks better than I thought it would, so I'd vote for that to be submitted to the USAF. 

[arajca]

So, is there a plan to have two colors of tapes/insignia backgrounds - green for the abu, navy for the bbdu?

As for those who say get rid of the bbdu, why? The AF is going to the ABU, so why should I have to buy a new uniform that that AF is abandoning?

I will recommend adopting the old USN beard standard for the corporate service uniforms.