new cadet meds Reg....

[NCRblues]

http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/R160_002_3D0E53BA5F1A5.pdf

just thought i would post it...

[Dad2-4]

My first thought is...YAY!! Relieves SM staff of direct responsibilty. But care must be given to ensure parents clearly understand the reg before activities, especially encampments or other overnight events, and that instructions/permissions are included in application forms.

[cap235629]

My first thought is...YAY!! Relieves SM staff of direct responsibilty. But care must be given to ensure parents clearly understand the reg before activities, especially encampments or other overnight events, and that instructions/permissions are included in application forms.

I think giving parents a copy of this regulation with the encampment or other activity appplication should suffice.

[Major Lord]

Sweet mother of Buddha, they think this kind of thinking will help? First, if a Cadet attends a Squadron meeting without first presenting written permission to CAP to allow the child to be in possession of a valid, lawful, and licit prescription drug, they (everyone!)  is in violation of the policy.

In one breath, Seniors are advised that assuming control of possession or distribution may be done at that Senior's own risk- in other sections, foreknowledge that this will happen, including passive monitoring or actively inventorying the Cadets medications is clearly understood. This is a much more ambiguous policy than the drafters intended (Please god, tell me we have better lawyers than this representing our organization) The policy is unclear, unrealistic ( Lets' 2B a cadet for sharing his Vitamin C Glucose candy) and attempts to control the situation without accepting any of the actual responsibility. It won't stand up. 

For those people who have a lawful duty to act, it does nothing, except to try and focus any potential liability on the Senior. It states that the Wings will issue classification of how and when, and to whom this applies. Assuming that they do this properly, ( Our Wing thinks you need a Class B drivers' license to drive a Van!) an imprudent assumption to make, we will have 57 different policies varying on which side of a line your feet happen to be on.

Imagine going into court and having to explain to a judge that you as USAF-AUX "Medical Officer" watched a badger have a melt down from forgetting to takes 4 days of Ritalin  but CAP rules would not permit you to adopt medical control of a minor in your care.

Do you really think that sending home notification to mom and dad pinned to Johnny's shirt is going to be accepted as full disclosure and acceptance?

Dear Mom and Dad,

Please sign below indicating which drugs your kid takes ( we promise not to tell the Air Force when they try to Enlist or Commission) Please note that signing this form means that only people who have can articulate a legal duty to act will do so (unless they have Joined the Wisconsin Reps in Illinois and can't be found)  but the rest of non-medical people will try our level best to call 911 if we recognize one of thousands of possible medical problems that may arise from failing to take , or overdosing, from, my lawfully prescribed medication, clear instructions for use of which are printed on the front label. Further, That you hold CAP harmless against any and all actions and damages arising from actions or failings, or those of its members.

Enigo Montoya, MAJGEN USAFAUX
Joo killed my father;prepare to die!

Cadet Programs people will be the most at risk, next to the Corp itself.  Good luck with that, I will try to sit in on your trial.

Major Lord

[NCRblues]

Sweet mother of Buddha, they think this kind of thinking will help? First, if a Cadet attends a Squadron meeting without first presenting written permission to CAP to allow the child to be in possession of a valid, lawful, and licit prescription drug, they (everyone!)  is in violation of the policy.

In one breath, Seniors are advised that assuming control of possession or distribution may be done at that Senior's own risk- in other sections, foreknowledge that this will happen, including passive monitoring or actively inventorying the Cadets medications is clearly understood. This is a much more ambiguous policy than the drafters intended (Please god, tell me we have better lawyers than this representing our organization) The policy is unclear, unrealistic ( Lets' 2B a cadet for sharing his Vitamin C Glucose candy) and attempts to control the situation without accepting any of the actual responsibility. It won't stand up. 

For those people who have a lawful duty to act, it does nothing, except to try and focus any potential liability on the Senior. It states that the Wings will issue classification of how and when, and to whom this applies. Assuming that they do this properly, ( Our Wing thinks you need a Class B drivers' license to drive a Van!) an imprudent assumption to make, we will have 57 different policies varying on which side of a line your feet happen to be on.

Imagine going into court and having to explain to a judge that you as USAF-AUX "Medical Officer" watched a badger have a melt down from forgetting to takes 4 days of Ritalin  but CAP rules would not permit you to adopt medical control of a minor in your care.

Do you really think that sending home notification to mom and dad pinned to Johnny's shirt is going to be accepted as full disclosure and acceptance?

Dear Mom and Dad,

Please sign below indicating which drugs your kid takes ( we promise not to tell the Air Force when they try to Enlist or Commission) Please note that signing this form means that only people who have can articulate a legal duty to act will do so (unless they have Joined the Wisconsin Reps in Illinois and can't be found)  but the rest of non-medical people will try our level best to call 911 if we recognize one of thousands of possible medical problems that may arise from failing to take , or overdosing, from, my lawfully prescribed medication, clear instructions for use of which are printed on the front label. Further, That you hold CAP harmless against any and all actions and damages arising from actions or failings, or those of its members.

Enigo Montoya, MAJGEN USAFAUX
Joo killed my father;prepare to die!

Cadet Programs people will be the most at risk, next to the Corp itself.  Good luck with that, I will try to sit in on your trial.

Major Lord

i did not think of it this way, but you made me think. It is very open ended for a "legal regulation".

I was also shocked that this went out so close to this years NCSA's, this means that those wings that are holding NCSA's basically must have there supplement done and reviewed by national before the kids can show up there. This puts an amazing amount of pressure on wing kings/queens and staff, and also on NCSA directors, medical officers, TAC, well anyone involved really.

[RiverAux]

Wow, is that confusing.  Glad I don't have to actually figure out what it means. 

[jks19714]

I think that we have found the whereabouts of the legal team who wrote the "don't ask, don't tell" regulations.

[Ned]

Sweet mother of Buddha, they think this kind of thinking will help?

Yes, "they" do.  This regulations is way overdue and provides needed guidance to folks actually administering the CP in the field.

First, if a Cadet attends a Squadron meeting without first presenting written permission to CAP to allow the child to be in possession of a valid, lawful, and licit prescription drug, they (everyone!)  is in violation of the policy.

Of course not, and no more realistic than proclaiming that the encampment cook violates the CPP when a cadet flight sergeant hazes another cadet.

For the first time, the responsibility for possession and administration of cadet medications is where it belongs - with the cadet who needs the medication and has been dealing with the health problem since well before the activity.  And not with some well-intentioned but unqualified senior member.

In one breath, Seniors are advised that assuming control of possession or distribution may be done at that Senior's own risk- in other sections, foreknowledge that this will happen, including passive monitoring or actively inventorying the Cadets medications is clearly understood. This is a much more ambiguous policy than the drafters intended (Please god, tell me we have better lawyers than this representing our organization)

Of course any regulation could be written more clearly, and this one is the product of a lot of experienced hands.  It was originally drafted by Dr. Kay McLaughlin, a Spaatz cadet and physician.  (And the National Health Services Officer.)  It went through a lot of drafts in committee, and then the lawyers had their crack at it.  It represents a solid, commonsense solution to a difficult problem.

The policy is unclear, unrealistic ( Lets' 2B a cadet for sharing his Vitamin C Glucose candy) and attempts to control the situation without accepting any of the actual responsibility. It won't stand up. 

Stand up to what?  Spreading hyperbole in place of reasoned discussion is not helpful.

For those people who have a lawful duty to act, it does nothing, except to try and focus any potential liability on the Senior.

Really?  There is no change here whatsover.  If you had a legal duty to act before the regulation was published, you still have a legal duty to act after the regulation was published.  Nothing in the regulation changes that.  As it turns out, CAP is not generally liable for legally-required actions taken by members that were not in the course and scope of their CAP duties.  If we didn't mandate an action, train or certify a member to perform it, then we really aren't a party to it.

It states that the Wings will issue classification of how and when, and to whom this applies. Assuming that they do this properly, ( Our Wing thinks you need a Class B drivers' license to drive a Van!) an imprudent assumption to make, we will have 57 different policies varying on which side of a line your feet happen to be on.

Nonsense.  Supplements are only required where state laws are more restrictive.  That appears to be a fairly small minority of wings.  But even if you are 100% correct, we will have 57 different policies precisely because we needed to have 57 different policies as required by local law.  Sounds like a Good Thing to Know.

Imagine going into court and having to explain to a judge that you as USAF-AUX "Medical Officer" watched a badger have a melt down from forgetting to takes 4 days of Ritalin  but CAP rules would not permit you to adopt medical control of a minor in your care.

OK, I've got a pretty good imagination.  Now what?  What was your point?

Any member of CAP confronted with a medical emergency can and should take action - even if that emergency is prompted by an over or under-dose of prescribed medications.  Restated, everyone can call "911" when necessary.

Cadet Programs people will be the most at risk, next to the Corp itself.  Good luck with that, I will try to sit in on your trial.

Major Lord

You're welcome to sit in on any of my trials.  Drop by anytime.  I've usually got one going on.

Ned Lee
Former Legal Officer

[NCRblues]

Ned, got a question for you.

I have been looking through the NB past meeting minuets, and i cant seem to find when the NB voted on this...

So, did they?

Or, do they have to?

and if they did not, can the national commander just make up a regulation?

Maybe i just cant find it...

[coudano]

waiting patiently for medical discrimination of applicants

"ew johnny has drugs, that's a giant hastle... pick someone else"

[Eclipse]

My encampment Health and Safety staff reviewed it and feel it does not change anything from our ops normal
(though we have been operating under these guidelines since early 2010).

There's plenty in there to make hay about in a coffee shop, not much change to status quo.

IMHO the only people that are going to have trouble with this are the ones still running triage units that have "Cadet Medical Officers", etc.
But they already have other issues of fundamental program compliance, anyway, so this isn't going to be the most important thing on the pile.

We will use ORM to be as safe as possible, take steps to avoid the hazing trap, and keep Sean Kingston's number handy for the rare need.

[NCRblues]

My encampment Health and Safety staff reviewed it and feel it does not change anything from our ops normal
(though we have been operating under these guidelines since early 2010).

There's plenty in there to make hay about in a coffee shop, not much change to status quo.

IMHO the only people that are going to have trouble with this are the ones still running triage units that have "Cadet Medical Officers", etc.
But they already have other issues of fundamental program compliance, anyway, so this isn't going to be the most important thing on the pile.

We will use ORM to be as safe as possible, take steps to avoid the hazing trap, and keep Sean Kingston's number handy for the rare need.

So, i am just guessing, Illinois does not have to come up with a wing supplement then?

[Eclipse]

So, i am just guessing, Illinois does not have to come up with a wing supplement then?

Not that I am aware of - things seem pretty clear in there.

[Ned]

Ned, got a question for you.

I have been looking through the NB past meeting minuets, and i cant seem to find when the NB voted on this...

I am away from my notes, but IIRC it was an NEC thing, not a NB thing.

I can be more specific when I get home from DC.

[Eclipse]

The 2009 National Board approved the policy effective 1 JAN 2010 (which is, of course, how all encampments operated last year, right?).

I assume the regulation is just the administrative process of that approval.

[EMT-83]

Back in December, I posed the question in another thread about any reported problems in the year since the ICL went into effect.

Not one response.

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=11917.msg218631#msg218631

[FARRIER]

     Clear to me. Way I read it is, its primarily the kids responsibility or his parents, if they need to attend the activity. Anything outside the prescribed meds, get the parents permission. If the kid is unable to handle it, as said before, parent attends or the kid doesn't attend.

     I had a nephew, when he was 15, who was in that situation, attend a week long Bible Camp. My Mom (his grandmother) went along to make sure he took his meds, because we knew he wasn't responsible enough to keep track himself. We worked the organizers of the Bible Camp ahead of time. The only issue was the cost I had to cover for both him and his grandmother.

Respectfully,

[sarmed1]

Acceptable practice vs trying to circumvent the reg?

Medication
All prescription and over-the-counter medication MUST be retained in their original bottle with dosing instructions and hand carried to in-processing.  Your cadet will go over their medication and medical needs with the Medical Officer prior to being allowed into the ENC area.

Medication will be kept in the Medical Operations Building which is open and staffed 24/7.  Just as in school or at home, each cadet is expected to be responsible for staying on their normal medication dosage routine.  Any cadet who needs to have an EPI pen should either bring two or bring their prescription so that if they need to use it, another pen can be issued.

National Headquarters Civil Air Patrol has recently changed the way that cadet medication is handled at all CAP activities requiring changes in policy, procedure, and paperwork.  More information will be posted as it becomes available.  All parents and cadet attending the school should reference CAPR 52-16: Cadet Program Management and CAPR 160-2: Handling Cadet Medications.

Any questions or concerns about anything related to medication or medical needs should be addressed with the Medical Officer prior to the start of ENC. To contact them, please visit the contact page.

Ok so I found this an a wings enacmpment page; So I looked again; and yes it does say cadets areresponsible for storing their own medications, it does not say that activities CAN'T store them in a centralized location (ie collect them).  If the medical operations builidng is open 24/7 and in theory a cadet is actually allowed to go there at anytime to get medication (prescrption or OTC) is this within the law of the reg? Personally I see it as someones gray area/way around the reg for HSO's/commanders that arent 100% comfortable with cadets handling their own meds....

thoughts?

mk

[Spaceman3750]

Acceptable practice vs trying to circumvent the reg?

Medication
All prescription and over-the-counter medication MUST be retained in their original bottle with dosing instructions and hand carried to in-processing.  Your cadet will go over their medication and medical needs with the Medical Officer prior to being allowed into the ENC area.

Medication will be kept in the Medical Operations Building which is open and staffed 24/7.  Just as in school or at home, each cadet is expected to be responsible for staying on their normal medication dosage routine.  Any cadet who needs to have an EPI pen should either bring two or bring their prescription so that if they need to use it, another pen can be issued.

National Headquarters Civil Air Patrol has recently changed the way that cadet medication is handled at all CAP activities requiring changes in policy, procedure, and paperwork.  More information will be posted as it becomes available.  All parents and cadet attending the school should reference CAPR 52-16: Cadet Program Management and CAPR 160-2: Handling Cadet Medications.

Any questions or concerns about anything related to medication or medical needs should be addressed with the Medical Officer prior to the start of ENC. To contact them, please visit the contact page.

... arent 100% comfortable with cadets handling their own meds....

thoughts?

mk

It's been said before and said again - if a cadet can't deal with his own medications why are they there? By the time you're in middle school (or above) you should be able to know when to take your meds and then follow through with that.

[Eclipse]

Yes, you should, but the fact remains that many cadets can't, won't, or "other".  For those who ask how the kids can get through school fine but
need us one week of the year - the schools have full involvement with any meds the kids take, monitor the situation, and have more leeway in intervention and treatment when there is an issue.  They are also not away from home and parents for a week at a time.  If Johnny forgets his meds,
it isn't 12 hours round trip to get them, and mom or dad will notice he's not "right" by dinner.

We've had cadets with injectables that required special storage fail to mention this at all, nor accommodate the sharps, and others who lose track of their meds and not mention it for a full day.

This is discussed in TLC - for kids at cadet age, long term planning is 3 weeks, couple that mentality with a new environment and maybe being away from home for the first time, and you see why the adults need to, at least, have a verifiable way to insure the cadets are managing things properly.

And neither of the above includes cadets who refuse to take their meds, share them, or who have a "dramatic personal life" which may include parents fighting about whether their kids should even take the meds, and not telling us on purpose.

We also have the pendulum which swings from "helicopter" to "disinterested" - the Helicopters are micro managing their kids to the point where their every need and want is accommodated for them, including meds, and the kids never think about it because mom is there 3 times daily with pill and water, and then the "disinterested" who don't even understand what their kids are taking, let alone care to be involved.  Both types have a right to
be an encampment, and need someone to make sure they are safe.

To the above, it is in direct violation of the reg that says that CAP will no longer store meds, and that wing needs to knock it off immediately, and during that conversation, explain why they have a "Medical Operations Building" at all.  The new 52-16 makes it clear that there is no gray area in regards to
storage, CAP can check them, track them, and make even bar participation if they don't do as their parents directed on the 31, but we can't store them anymore.