Drill Team Startup

[Sgt.Pain]

I am thinking about starting up a drill team in my squadron, but I don't know to much about them. Except that they loo awesome doing cool drill movements that you don't normally do on the drill pad. Anybody have some suggestion? Like what are some simple drill patterns to start with? and how often do we need to practice? Also does the drill team commander give commands like a drill sgt. or does he just conduct it all and have the team memorize it?

[jimmydeanno]

Actually, all of the drill movements are what you do on the drill pad, normally. 

I think the first step is getting people excited about it.  Talk it up, gain interest, recruit members if you don't have enough, etc.

As for practice, to be competitive, you need to practice more often than not.  When I was a cadet, our drill team would practice every Saturday for about 6 hours for about 6 months and we never won region.  When I was organizing a cadet color guard, we'd practice twice per week for 3 hours - those cadets won the Region Competition.

The drill team commander does give commands.  The standard drill, they are given a card with commands to execute as quickly as possible.  The innovative drill, most teams go silent, but there are a few oral commands that are given for reporting, etc.

Your best bet would probably be to read through CAPM 52-4 (http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/M524_BA28735E30531.pdf) to get a feel for the competition.

[BillB]

Did the National Board drop the inovative portion of the competition?

[jimmydeanno]

Not yet.  But the innovative portion has to include real drill movements.  The days of the dancing, etc have been gone for years.  So, the cadets can do nifty formations, etc in the drill, but can't make up their own movements. 

[DBlair]

The days of the dancing, etc have been gone for years.

Ah, the memories. lol

[Майор Хаткевич]

The days of the dancing, etc have been gone for years.

Ah, the memories. lol

Kadet Kelly anyone? *shudders*

[DBlair]

If interested in starting a competition Drill Team, there are some important things that must be factored.

Firstly, does your unit have enough members? Keep in mind that it takes 13 Cadets (the same 13 Cadets each time) plus alternates, plus several members of support staff. Essentially, you'll need about 20 members to dedicate themselves to this team- and not neglect unit activities in the process. Cadets tend to get bored with all the work and training after a month or two. You need Cadets to show up to every practice so they know their place in the flight like second nature. Also, it is tough to practice innovative routines without everyone there.

Can your unit afford it? There is an incredible cost involved with having a drill team. This includes new uniforms, insignia, shoes, team PT uniforms, volleyball kneepads, competition registration, hotels, travel expense, and much more. To field a competitive team, expect to spend spend over $5k per each year your team competes- not including extra costs if you win and go to region and nationals. It is extremely expensive, and along with the high number of Cadets needed to field a team, is why many units often do not send drill teams to competition.

Before you start putting innovative routines together, start practicing just the standard drill moves to be sure each member can execute them with perfect precision and polish.

Also keep in mind that there are 7 events, and not all of them involve drill. You need to practice these other events as well and really be sharp with everything.


I'm not trying to discourage members from attempting to field a drill team, but people do need to know what they are in for if they attempt this.




(Former member of the famed NJ Dragon Drill Team back in the 1990s)

[Sgt.Pain]

If interested in starting a competition Drill Team, there are some important things that must be factored.

Firstly, does your unit have enough members? Keep in mind that it takes 13 Cadets (the same 13 Cadets each time) plus alternates, plus several members of support staff. Essentially, you'll need about 20 members to dedicate themselves to this team- and not neglect unit activities in the process. Cadets tend to get bored with all the work and training after a month or two. You need Cadets to show up to every practice so they know their place in the flight like second nature. Also, it is tough to practice innovative routines without everyone there.

Can your unit afford it? There is an incredible cost involved with having a drill team. This includes new uniforms, insignia, shoes, team PT uniforms, volleyball kneepads, competition registration, hotels, travel expense, and much more. To field a competitive team, expect to spend spend over $5k per each year your team competes- not including extra costs if you win and go to region and nationals. It is extremely expensive, and along with the high number of Cadets needed to field a team, is why many units often do not send drill teams to competition.

Before you start putting innovative routines together, start practicing just the standard drill moves to be sure each member can execute them with perfect precision and polish.

Also keep in mind that there are 7 events, and not all of them involve drill. You need to practice these other events as well and really be sharp with everything.


I'm not trying to discourage members from attempting to field a drill team, but people do need to know what they are in for if they attempt this.




(Former member of the famed NJ Dragon Drill Team back in the 1990s)

Thanks for these wise words Captain :-). I don't think I will be getting into the competitive side to drill teams. I just kind of wanted to have some fun doing cool drill patterns and such. Maybe eventually get into cometition. But its hard enough in my squadron to get anyone dedicated to anything other then the tuesday night meetings. As a side note though, what would you need volleyball kneepads for on a drill team??

[jimmydeanno]

If interested in starting a competition Drill Team, there are some important things that must be factored.

Firstly, does your unit have enough members? Keep in mind that it takes 13 Cadets (the same 13 Cadets each time) plus alternates, plus several members of support staff. Essentially, you'll need about 20 members to dedicate themselves to this team- and not neglect unit activities in the process. Cadets tend to get bored with all the work and training after a month or two. You need Cadets to show up to every practice so they know their place in the flight like second nature. Also, it is tough to practice innovative routines without everyone there.

Can your unit afford it? There is an incredible cost involved with having a drill team. This includes new uniforms, insignia, shoes, team PT uniforms, volleyball kneepads, competition registration, hotels, travel expense, and much more. To field a competitive team, expect to spend spend over $5k per each year your team competes- not including extra costs if you win and go to region and nationals. It is extremely expensive, and along with the high number of Cadets needed to field a team, is why many units often do not send drill teams to competition.

Before you start putting innovative routines together, start practicing just the standard drill moves to be sure each member can execute them with perfect precision and polish.

Also keep in mind that there are 7 events, and not all of them involve drill. You need to practice these other events as well and really be sharp with everything.


I'm not trying to discourage members from attempting to field a drill team, but people do need to know what they are in for if they attempt this.




(Former member of the famed NJ Dragon Drill Team back in the 1990s)

Thanks for these wise words Captain :-). I don't think I will be getting into the competitive side to drill teams. I just kind of wanted to have some fun doing cool drill patterns and such. Maybe eventually get into cometition. But its hard enough in my squadron to get anyone dedicated to anything other then the tuesday night meetings. As a side note though, what would you need volleyball kneepads for on a drill team??

One of the events of the competition is volleyball.  Knee pads are required safety items.

[jeders]

As a side note though, what would you need volleyball kneepads for on a drill team??

As he mentioned, there is more than just drill in the competition. There is PT, academic challenges, and even a volleyball competition.

Edit: jimmy beat me to it.

[DBlair]

Drill Team Events:

1) Inspection (In-depth uniform inspection)
2) Standard Drill (Standard commands/movements executed from a previously-unseen list of drill movements)
3) Innovative Drill (Memorized routine, executed almost entirely without commands)
4) Panel Quiz (Jeopardy-style quiz game)
5) Written Exam (100 Questions, testing Aerospace, Leadership, Current Events, CAP Knowledge, etc)
6) Volleyball (Indoor Volleyball)
7) Mile Run (Timed, 1 Mile Run)




Sidenote- As a unit, I'd suggest looking into developing a competition Color Guard instead- fewer members needed and much lower cost.

[HGjunkie]

Seems like a real expensive time consuming endeavor. An awesome, expensive time consuming endeavor. May have to look into fielding a squadron drill team.

[DBlair]

Seems like a real expensive time consuming endeavor. An awesome, expensive time consuming endeavor. May have to look into fielding a squadron drill team.

Since you are in my Group, you should know that starting this year (now that the recent Comp has passed) in Group 3, Drill Team will only be done as part of a Group Drill Team and Color Guards will be done by the units. Having a Drill Team at the Group-level is much more competitive as we can pull from ~25 units in our Group, selected the best Cadets for the team. Expect further information to be released soon.

[HGjunkie]

Forgot about the group Drill Team.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Seems like a real expensive time consuming endeavor. An awesome, expensive time consuming endeavor. May have to look into fielding a squadron drill team.

Since you are in my Group, you should know that starting this year (now that the recent Comp has passed) in Group 3, Drill Team will only be done as part of a Group Drill Team and Color Guards will be done by the units. Having a Drill Team at the Group-level is much more competitive as we can pull from ~25 units in our Group, selected the best Cadets for the team. Expect further information to be released soon.

Can units still choose to field a team to challenge the "official" group team?

[a2capt]

In the rare case that it could happen, that seems a bit exclusionary now, if a unit below the group level had enough, and the desire to do it's own and the group wouldn't allow it, and then only cherry pick it's people.

[Майор Хаткевич]

In the rare case that it could happen, that seems a bit exclusionary now, if a unit below the group level had enough, and the desire to do it's own and the group wouldn't allow it, and then only cherry pick it's people.

The thing that soured me on the whole event as a cadet was when one team would cannibalize the loosing one at wing in order to increase their chances of victory. Kinda makes the whole teamwork aspect go out the window.

[a2capt]

That is exactly where I was headed. It should be "the same" cadets, not a merging of cadets.  Otherwise it's really a group/wing only competition. When the politics tear up the intent. that just blows.

[Ron1319]

I'm ashamed at the content of this thread.  Drill team is about learning excellence in drill, not about the details of the competition.  Think big picture, people!  For reference, I was the Great Lakes Region team commander in 1997.  We worked for four years to beat Illinois at region competition to go to NCC and we were all very proud of our accomplishment.  I rejoined CAP recently and we were able to field an NCC team that did respectably well without having all of those problems!

To the OP (original poster), the nay saying is purely nuts and I can understand based on the contents of this thread why national is throwing their hands up in the air not understanding why more cadets do not get to participate in one of the greatest non-ES activities in the cadet program.  All of the reasons why you seem excited about it are exactly what excites me and why we took a team to NCC last year.  The talk of months of training and budget and all off topic entirely.  You need to encourage the cadets to prepare a great uniform, practice enough to go and have fun and enjoy the competition, and not sweat the details. 

I would be nothing short of astonished if any group were unwilling to make an allowance for a team to come and compete with fewer than the NCC required number of cadets.  We ran our group competition last year and we encouraged anyone to bring what they had and come learn about the competition.  We did not expect a brand new team to have an innovative routine.   At the CAWG "Cadet Programs Conference" last year, I ran into the same objections when I was trying to figure out if the rumors of us going uncontested at wing were true.  Alas, because of the same objections in this thread, there were multiple squadrons that were afraid to try.  They didn't know where to start when it came to an innovative routine.

My answer was simple.  Go out on the field, report in, report out, and go onto the next event.  Forget about innovative for the first year.  Work on the basic drill movements, academics and physical fitness.  You could still very easily walk away with a victory, especially with many levels of competition having so few teams competing.

The other possibility and the one that I would encourage the most would be to work with other squadrons in your group.  Not only would this be building STRONG bridges between squadrons and between cadet staffs, but it would also mean a more powerful team and better cadets.  We are doing exactly this (2nd practice on Dec 5th) and we're going to have cadets from 6 squadrons in the group and we're aiming for an all officer team at NCC this year.  This is a HUGE leap forward from the level of competition presented at NCC by CAWG in the past, and a huge stride forward for the group.  Is it the chicken or the egg?  A year ago when we joined the squadron there were no cadet officers and now we have 5.   There were few in the group and now we're looking at fielding a whole team of officers by next summer who are really excited about the competition.  I believe NCC is a catalyst, a rally point, and a way for the cadet officers in the group to start competition with one another.  As I wasn't about to let my friends get their Spaatz and not me.. I'm seeing that here as they're comparing their dates with each other for when they'll be able to take the exam.  It's not magic.  It's taken proper encouragement of the right key people and the right fostering of a competitive spirit. 

Now if only we can have as much success with ES in this area..  One problem at a time I suppose.  We're working on that one, too, though..  with 0 -> 15 General ES/UDF Trainee qualified cadets in the last year.

To specifically address the points above, we went to NCC with a total of about 10 6-hour practices.  We spent around $1000 (<$100/cadet) to have respectable uniforms (I can provide photos if needed).  National picks up much of the bill.  Granted, the cadets had to travel to a central location, but they were excited to do that.  We could have done it on less budget if needed.  This year we'll do a little more fund raising and step it up a bit more.  The cadets now understand the level of the competition.  That was for NCC.  Go get involved at a group, wing or region level competition.

I hope more people than just the OP read this and are encouraged to go make it happen.  I'll happily counsel anyone who would like more insight, but I'd prefer to do it in a public forum where others can benefit and become involved.  We have to watch it because NCC is expensive for CAP to put on and this type of exclusiveness or discouraging others to participate could cost us the event that I consider the absolute best of my cadet career.  And I was fairly active and attended a lot.

Ron

[Ron1319]

Sorry, I forgot to include one more point.  What has ALWAYS happened for us is that priority has been given to cadets who competed and performed well at the previous level of competition.  Many of them are unable to compete at the next level (schedule conflicts, family, etc) and the best replacements are found.  In the case where a cadet severely under performs at a competition, they are told up front that they are competing for spots and they can lose their spot at any time.  We have at least 17 cadets from our group who are competing to be on our team at wing competition.  The best cadets have the spots based on their performance at practices.  We're doing it how I think it should be done.

[Titan 25]

One thing you can do (as long as your wing commander will allow it) is find a place to practice around the center of your state and recruit cadets from other squadrons. That's what my team does since no squadron IN UTAH has the man-power to have a single-squadron team. It's called the 'Super Team' theory; holding tryouts statewide and accepting the cadets with the most dedication and character. For the recruiting to work, your team will need to offer something that everyone will want: organization. If you are organized and your team has good morals and a good vision (after getting the word out to everyone in the wing) you can expect an outstanding turnout. You will also need to set a high standard of good behavior, constant practice, and refrain from playing favorites. Every cadet will have an equal opportunity to be on the team. Do not look at skill, look at their level of willingness. With this, I'll tell you that it all comes from the dedication of the commander. If you can prove to people that you will be with them all the way, they will follow you all the way.

It's a very good idea, as long as you can enormously dedicate yourself.

One question... How far do you plan on going?

If your answer is wing:

-Get 13 cadets
-Make sure they all have uniforms
-Come up with a simple 5 minute innovative routine

If you answer is regions:

-START NOW (recruit members and start holding practices no matter how many people you have to start out with.)
-Practice like crazy. I don't know when your wing competition is but it's probably soon.
-During practices, spend HOURS on volleyball, drill, mile run, and knowledge
-Come up with an amazing innovative routine

If your answer is NCC:

-START NOW (recruit members and start holding practices no matter how many people you have to start out with.)
-Practice insanely, all the time, with intensity
-Hold practices EVERY WEEKEND or whenever you can do it. The more days of practice, the better. It will be up to you guys to get at least 30 hours of practice a week.
-Take that 5 minute innovative routine and spend almost half of your practices learning to execute it PERFECTLY (same with standard)
-Get your cadets practicing outside of DT practice (Make them run on their own every day, practice volleyball, and send them study material)
-For you guys to even compete in the mile, your team will need an average of 6:15. To win, 5:45-55.
-Bond as a team and learn not to argue because arguments and drama WILL pop up. Become a family and learn each others strengths and weaknesses and build off of them.
-Optional: Develop a unique drill style. Go to youtube and watch some of the NCC drills and see the many different styles.


SOME ADDITIONAL TIPS:

-Go through all of the study material (modules 1-6, Leadership for the 21st Century: Volume 1, NCC regs, PT regs, and current events) and make study packets with every bit of information you can find. Use these Q&A packets to study off of to get SUPER fast at panel quiz (so you know the answer before it is finished being read) and for the written exam.

-Don't just try to get 30 hours a week, try to get more if you can because it is going to take SO MUCH dedication to win.

-If you can, find someone who will volunteer to help your team as a volleyball coach. I know that it helped our team A LOT last year when we enlisted the help of an olympic volleyball coach. If you can find ANYONE who knows the proper procedure of volleyball play, get them to show up at every practice and help your team develop a game plan. It is going to be VERY difficult to get to the right level of teamwork to play at NCC. We practiced for 5 hours at every practice last year and still came in fourth in that event. But don't let that discourage you. You might be able to recruit some really good players and volleyball will be a breeze for your team.

-Ultimately, it's about becoming a team that can work together and building character and leadership. Always remember that and be patient with your cadets when things get tough. The stupidest little things can ruin a team to the point of people not willing to work with each other.

-There is so much more to know about NCC. If you want my help or the help of any of my fellow national champions, please send me a PM or an email. Preferably email for a fast reply.

[Ron1319]

I agree 100% with everything except the overemphasis of innovative.  It's fun, but it's one event out of seven.  From a return on investment standpoint, it's not smart to invest that high of a percentage of time IF you have less time to invest.  Our cadets won't be allotting 30 hrs/week between now and NCC.  Our innovative routine is targeted to be about 3-3 1/2 minutes and I believe execution weighs more heavily than filling the time.  If the goal is to go to wing comp, put together what you can for now.  If that's four moves and it lasts a minute or two, prove you can do it and smile about it!

[DakRadz]

Words

And with this, I forgo CAP Drill Team.

Seriously, that's pretty extreme... Other than wing, which I feel got the short end of the stick, as that certainly isn't a winning recipe.



What about CAP competing in AFJROTC drill comps? This just occurred to me... Think about- if nothing else, it's good practice. It could even be the sole form of competition, and that would definitely draw cadets (lots of trophies available- good for recruiting).

[Eclipse]

-Don't just try to get 30 hours a week, try to get more if you can because it is going to take SO MUCH dedication to win.

Ridiculous.

What we need to do is dial this back to the way it was (I am sure) originally intended - squadron based teams only with no one buying new uniforms, or paying volleyball coaches, and a limitation on the number of hours a week you can practice.

I would also make progression of drill team members mandatory while assigned to the team, as I have seen far too many cadets decide the rest of CAP is less important than NCC, or delay promotion because of being on the team.

[HGjunkie]

Geez, 30 hours a week?

That's 5 hours a day for 6 days out of the week. No way.

I do more than that in homework alone.

[Ron1319]

I watched the cadets verbally push each other to promote at practice on Sunday and the highest ranking cadet officers are in a race to see who can finish the program first.  You're going to have to trust my assessment that they are behind and that fire is very, very good for them.  In other words, with the right prodding, it's having exactly the desired effect.  I told them as much.

I'm a bit curious if the 30 hrs/week was a typo.  I used to spend 30 hrs/week on CAP but I was an intern working 40 hrs/week at IBM and CAP was pretty much the only other thing I did.  That was actually when I wasn't doing drill team, for the most part.

My cadets definitely do not have a spare 30 hrs/week.  They're going to have to be efficient.

[Eclipse]

20-30 hours a week is fairly common for many commanders and staff, especially if they are playing in the sandbox themselves, but 30 hours on one thing is not reasonable.

[Bluelakes 13]

When I was with a drill team we practiced every Sat & Sun about 8 hours each.  We did get 3rd place in NCC twice in a row.

I can't imagine how cadets can pull 30 hrs/week.  How do yo uget senior supervision doing that?

But then again, Utah did get 1st place in NCC two years in a row.   :clap:

[Spaceman3750]

The year I did color guard as a cadet we practiced every Saturday for 12 hours. We had a couple CG weekends down at Scott AFB with another squadron.

That said, as a squadron ESO I might spend many hours planning, preparing, or playing (depending on the week), but I don't think I've ever quite hit 30.

[Titan 25]

I agree 100% with everything except the overemphasis of innovative.  It's fun, but it's one event out of seven.  From a return on investment standpoint, it's not smart to invest that high of a percentage of time IF you have less time to invest.  Our cadets won't be allotting 30 hrs/week between now and NCC.  Our innovative routine is targeted to be about 3-3 1/2 minutes and I believe execution weighs more heavily than filling the time.  If the goal is to go to wing comp, put together what you can for now.  If that's four moves and it lasts a minute or two, prove you can do it and smile about it!

Well I'm just saying that that is what we did. It'll also be good to even things out and get an even amount of practice in each event. The reason we spent so much time on innovative and standard is because we wanted to kick butt in that event. It was a huge determining factor towards our win.

-Don't just try to get 30 hours a week, try to get more if you can because it is going to take SO MUCH dedication to win.

Ridiculous.

What we need to do is dial this back to the way it was (I am sure) originally intended - squadron based teams only with no one buying new uniforms, or paying volleyball coaches, and a limitation on the number of hours a week you can practice.

I would also make progression of drill team members mandatory while assigned to the team, as I have seen far too many cadets decide the rest of CAP is less important than NCC, or delay promotion because of being on the team.

It was never originally intended to be squadron teams. The wing commander reserves the right to choose any group of cadets he wants to go to regions whether there was a wing competition or not. There was absolutely no previous indication of it being squadron teams only (even though that seems to be the popular thing to do.) Super teams are purely the wing commander's decision and even heightens the competitiveness at NCC. Even with this, there are many who believe it should be squadronized. The thing is: school based squadrons such as the Puerto Rico will completely dominate as they have no shortage of perfect drill team cadets. 

On the Utah Wing drill team, we push our cadets to promote and go to squadron meetings. If they are not promoting or attending meetings regularly, they are not eligible to be on the team.

When I was with a drill team we practiced every Sat & Sun about 8 hours each.  We did get 3rd place in NCC twice in a row.

I can't imagine how cadets can pull 30 hrs/week.  How do yo uget senior supervision doing that?

But then again, Utah did get 1st place in NCC two years in a row.   :clap:

Sorry about that. I wasn't clear about that 30 hour thing. This is our practice schedule:

Saturdays 11am to 6pm. Occasional over-nighters running from Friday 6pm to Saturday 6pm. When the 2011 year starts, the majority of practices will be over night. We have some awesome senior members who realize the amazing opportunity that Utah has and come to every practice. It's tough, but they are able to; which allows us to win. 

The remaining hours come from the time we expect cadets to study and run outside of drill team. Can't let too much slip, though. 

******************************************************************************

Clarification: Don't worry about hitting the 30 hour mark. You can definitely win with the help of some amazing cadets and senior members. As long as your cadets are progressing well enough and know what drill team is truly about, that's all that matters. I'm only saying that the more practice you receive, the better.

[Bluelakes 13]

OK, that makes sense now.  Yes, during my clinics I urge the cadets to not wait till the team practice to... practice.  They should be running the mile at least 3 times per week, once at weekend practice, once before/after their unit meeting, and once more at school.  They should be studying the material everyday (if possible).  Put Call of Duty away for an hour at night and study a Dimensions module.  The looks I get for this are amazing!    But then again, they will need to study it to promote anyway, so why not now?

And I spend a good amount of time explaining what rank order scoring means.  There are 7 events in each of the competitions and they must all be practiced equally.   If you ace 6 out of the 7 events but get last place on one, versus another team that has 2nd place in all events, the latter team may win (ignoring the potential tie).

And STRATEGY is critical too, especially for Panel Quiz and Volleyball (and the two practicals for CG).  I've had teams win in Panel Quiz without answering a question.

[Ron1319]

Good thing I'm old enough to not have to put Starcraft II away to study. 

[Ron1319]

I just had a very interesting conversation with an ROTC cadet/college student who had been a member of CAP for 5 months in Utah.  The squadron that he was a member of changed their focus to drill team, and he said that meetings were no longer interesting, and he joined to get to fly and the squadron stopped planning o-flights.  His friends quit and he quit with them.

I think everyone should be aware of the pitfall and not let that happen.  It certainly doesn't have to.  I've never experienced that, and we were all just would never have and never will let that happen.

[Craftyx]

I would be interested in knowing who the cadet was, since Thunderbird Squadron which I was the squadron commander of during the last 3 years in Utah was the primary squadron with the most members on Drill team, but we never practiced at squadron meetings, every year we send approx 10 cadets to other National activities not including NCC, and we have had a cadet represent the squadron at CLA every year since it was founded with the exception of one. During this same 3 year time frame we sent approx 8 cadets to NESA, had several members ES qualified, so for this one person you met to complian that he was member for 5 months, and all that was done was drill team I would say is wholly not the case.

We also have built the squadron to now include several mission pilots, who do most of the oflights for the utah wing and have for the last couple of years, now with that said, if he joined in the winter, we dont do many o-flights during that time frame, due to the extreme weather in Utah, and this is the time frame Drill team trains on the weekends, we are aggresive recruiters, but I do realize that because you are asked many times if you want to join drill team, could translate in the mind of a young person to "hey thats all they do" Even though we have done kc-135 flights, ground team and es training, been the host of a group of Swedish Air cadets, that we invited and hosted ourselves not a part of IACE, we have members in the squadron from the EU and they extended the invitation and they came, we flew them around with the NOC's approval and hosted them for a whole week.

We also were squadron of Merit for the 3 years I was the commander, based off of the squadron of merit criteria, I dont know if you know what that is, or the report that is made available to commanders every year end, it shows recruiting, retention, number of cadets who attended thier first encampment, o-flights, and number of cadets who reach milestones. in my 3 years we had 2 Spaatz, 4 eaker, 6 earhart, several mitchells and wright brothers, we also exceeded those squadron averages national speaking of course.

In my opinion any young person who joins the program and only lasts 5 months, didnt really give the program a chance, especially considering we have retention rates in our squadron that exceed the national average. but thats just coming from me a squadron commander who spent all my time doing all of these things, some people are doer's while others sitting around waiting for others to do for them, you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink, eh?

but that is just my 2 cents, I dont spend much time on here, but wanted to at least respond to your post even if it is 6 months old.

Eric I. Weeks Capt CAP

[Bluelakes 13]

ERIC!  Nice to see you on here.  I had a talk with cadet Moss at NCC this year and I thought of you.  You probably know that RMR had a CG and DT from the same squadron.  Great group of cadets. I took a photo of them with Gen Carr and am going to write a few paragraphs for the Volunteer. Cadet Moss' quote was something like (dont have my notes handy), "we are here for the experience and we will be back next year because we want to become just like Utah!"

Classic.

[Eclipse]

Congrats on the success above.  Any cadet who quit 5 months in probably wasn't engaged enough to even understand the question, let alone answer it.

With a strong leader(s), a solid program, and good unit numbers, there should be no issue with cadets and
seniors being able to do whatever they want within CAP, that's the whole point.

The problem is when members and staff pick and choose their activities based on their personal choice and
inclinations to the detriment of the unit and the rest of the members.  Those are situations which are all too common nationwide, and something like DT can be a visible symptom of other issues.

Further to that, at the wing level or higher, there needs to be consistency of program, expectations, and awards.  We have far too many wings not running their own encampments, no effective leadership in the big-3
staff roles, and who excel by chance, not choice.

Everything we whine complain discuss here as challenge, NESA/HMRS/NBB attitudes, DT member arrogance and division or resources, inappropriate missions or other activity involvement, poor uniform wear, everything, is a product of poor leadership and the unwillingness to have direct, uncomfortable conversations
with a few bad actors who spoil it for every one else.

[321EOD]

ERIC!  Nice to see you on here.  I had a talk with cadet Moss at NCC this year and I thought of you.  You probably know that RMR had a CG and DT from the same squadron.  Great group of cadets. I took a photo of them with Gen Carr and am going to write a few paragraphs for the Volunteer. Cadet Moss' quote was something like (dont have my notes handy), "we are here for the experience and we will be back next year because we want to become just like Utah!"

Classic.

Hi James
It was great to meet you briefly at NCC - thank you for calling the RMR teams up for the photo shoot with Gen Carr - they were VERY proud of their achievements and I think Cadet Moss spoke for both teams about "becoming just like Utah"! Of course he meant to say "as successful as Utah" :-)

Thompson Valley Squadron has a proud history of competing against Utah at Regionals, with many cadets from both teams being FB friends! Eric Weeks is a legend and we thank both him and Arielle for their support and encouragement as we represented RMR this year. THAT's a true reflection on CAPs core values

Yes, this was our reconnaissance year at NCC - both our Color Guard and Drill Team were already planning our 2011/2012 training calendar on the plane!

Eric - I agree with your comments - we are still able to provide a very well rounded Cadet Program in our squadron - as well as preparing team/s for NCC

Let me know if you need any information about the teams for your article - I'd be glad to help.

Signed
one very proud DCC!

[RADIOMAN015]

The problem is when members and staff pick and choose their activities based on their personal choice and
inclinations to the detriment of the unit and the rest of the members.  Those are situations which are all too common nationwide, and something like DT can be a visible symptom of other issues.

Last time I looked everyone (especially senior members) are volunteers in CAP who can decide what they want to do and when they want to do it.    I don't think you gain anything when you (try to) force an adult member to do something they really don't have an interest in.   It's readily apparent to the cadets when this is happening as well as to other senior members.

IF you don't have the right mix of staff with appropriate interests, than one has to go out and recruit the talent with those interests.       
RM



     

[Eclipse]

The problem is when members and staff pick and choose their activities based on their personal choice and
inclinations to the detriment of the unit and the rest of the members.  Those are situations which are all too common nationwide, and something like DT can be a visible symptom of other issues.

Last time I looked everyone (especially senior members) are volunteers in CAP who can decide what they want to do and when they want to do it.    I don't think you gain anything when you (try to) force an adult member to do something they really don't have an interest in.   It's readily apparent to the cadets when this is happening as well as to other senior members.

IF you don't have the right mix of staff with appropriate interests, than one has to go out and recruit the talent with those interests.       
RM

When you accept the role of commander, you have to abdicate your personal interests in favor of what is best for the unit and organization.