Married Cadets

[Eclipse]

They.

Are.

Cadets.

Therefore "children", "adolescents", or "students" (depending on your take of the word), and the majority of industrialized nations
still regard it to be wholly inappropriate for people who fit those descriptions to be married or parents (despite the best efforts of Maury Povich).

We may not be able to regulate outside behavior, but that doesn't mean we have to condone it by accommodating the very bad life choices we are trying to help our cadets avoid.

When you choose to have a child (including the very adult choice to engage in the behavior that produces children) or be married, you are overtly deciding that you no longer wish to be treated as a child yourself, including access to various opportunities open only to those who have chosen to remain as a child.

[RobertAmphibian]

When you choose to have a child (including the very adult choice to engage in the behavior that produces children) or be married, you are overtly deciding that you no longer wish to be treated as a child yourself, including access to various opportunities open only to those who have chosen to remain as a child.

I think that buying a vehicle, housing or holding a full time job are adult behaviors. Do you think any cadet who lives independently should be sent to SM status as well?

[DakRadz]

When you choose to have a child (including the very adult choice to engage in the behavior that produces children) or be married, you are overtly deciding that you no longer wish to be treated as a child yourself, including access to various opportunities open only to those who have chosen to remain as a child.

I think that buying a vehicle, housing or holding a full time job are adult behaviors. Do you think any cadet who lives independently should be sent to SM status as well?

I would say those are mature behaviors, rather. And anyone who is mature enough to have a child between 18-21 (or younger) is very well capable of becoming a SM without whining.

It's more perception than anything. As a cadet, adult behaviors (children, smoking, drinking, etc.) are a no-no because we are still in the ranks of the children/young adults.

As a SM, you are certainly viewed as an adult by cadets- and when/if I see a SM with a child (duh.....) or in public with a cigarette, I see it as an adult making an adult decision. If I saw a cadet of mine (legally, 18-19+ yrs) doing that... I would still be upset for any number of reasons.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Agree on all, and further to this, the majority of cadets getting married are likely due to making poor life choices and an unplanned pregnancy, which is no example to be setting or allowing in CAP, which by nature is supposed to be helping cadets avoid these mistakes.

I was engaged at 18 as a cadet. Now I'm 20, a SM and still engaged *we're waiting until a certain date/after college/health insurance issue*.

I honestly don't think it's an issue, as I doubt any of my fellow cadets even knew of the relationship. What is an engagement? A commitment to marry a person? To be exclusive? What about a relationship? A commitment to stay loyal to each other? With the potential to lead to an engagement? What's marriage? A commitment to stay loyal to each other, hopefully for the rest of your life? All three in my opinion are just different levels of commitment, with engagement/marriage being closer together than "just" a relationship. If you're mature to be in a relationship, you can be mature enough to deal with any level of commitment and keeping it out of your cadet life.

That would be great.  A female C/MSgt and her husband, C/LTC Smith attend encampment, or any other CAP activity together and  they want to sleep together, as they should if they are married.   To many issues CAP isnt equipped to deal with even for dealing with two cadets who may be completely squared away.  Regardless of how rare it may be.

Keep it the way it is. 

That would be great. A female Capt and her husband, LtCol Smith attend encampment, or anyother CAP activity together and  they want to sleep together, as theyshould if they are married.   To many issues CAP isnt equipped to dealwith even for dealing with two senior members who may be completely squaredaway.  Regardless of how common it may be.

Keep it the way it is. 

If I saw a cadet of mine (legally, 18-19+ yrs) doing that... I would still be upset for any number of reasons.

Why? If they are not in uniform/representing CAP, they are adults behaving like adults. Would it impact a younger cadet seeing them? Maybe. Just like it would impact them seeing their DCC or Unit Commander doing the same.

When you choose to have a child (including the very adult choice to engage in the behavior that produces children) or be married, you are overtly deciding that you no longer wish to be treated as a child yourself, including access to various opportunities open only to those who have chosen to remain as a child.

That's what happens when people get older. It's natural, it's recorded in history, and programed in genetics. Define "adult" behaviors. Is purchasing a $500 item an adult behavior? Paying for your own phone service? Car/Gas? What about moving out at 17/18?

[Eclipse]

^ Without going nuts on requoting.

A marriage is more than a "commitment", a marriage is a legally binding civil contract.

As to tobacco use, I could care less their age, since CAP says "cadets" are prohibited from use or possession.

[Stonewall]

It's all very simple.

Getting married at such a young age is a bad decision so we punish them by making them senior members.

I'd say if two CAP members were under 21 and choose to get married, they should be given a temporary leave of absence until they prove they can survive the 7 year itch before being allowed to work with cadets.  That's all we want to do is demonstrate to a cadet that it's a good idea to get married at such a young age.

[Майор Хаткевич]

^ Without going nuts on requoting.

A marriage is more than a "commitment", a marriage is a legally binding civil contract.

As to tobacco use, I could care less their age, since CAP says "cadets" are prohibited from use or possession.

1-3. Supervision & Cadet Protection Policies.
CAPR 52-16 1 OCTOBER 2006 7
h. Tobacco Products, Alcoholic Beverages & Illegal Drugs.
(1) CAP cadets, regardless of age, will not possess, chew, or consume tobacco products, nor will they possess or consume alcoholic beverages or illegal drugs, in any form, while participating in any CAP activity.

It's all very simple.

Getting married at such a young age is a bad decision so we punish them by making them senior members.

I'd say if two CAP members were under 21 and choose to get married,they should be given a temporary leave of absence until they prove theycan survive the 7 year itch before being allowed to work with cadets. That's all we want to do is demonstrate to a cadet that it's a goodidea to get married at such a young age.

Average Age at time of first marriage:
1950: Males 22.8/Females 20.3
2007: Males 27.7/Females 26.0

According to divorcerate.org, The majority of divorces happen in the groups of 20-24 and 25-29 (at least on the male side, but the majority of CAP members are male).

People get married later now, by a good 5-6 years on average, but seem to get divorced more often in that range.

[Flying Pig]

When you married its time to set your "cadet life" on the back burner.  I would never support having married cadets. Thats coming from a married guy.

[AirAux]

So, what happens if two same sex cadets over 18 decide to move in together as life partners, or married, depending on the state?  Same rules or different rules? 

[davidsinn]

So, what happens if two same sex cadets over 18 decide to move in together as life partners, or married, depending on the state?  Same rules or different rules?

Depends on if it's a legal marriage or not. The regs say married.

[MSG Mac]

People 18 and over are already legally adults with all the benefits, responsibilities, and consequences that come with adulthood. Since CAP allows these 18-20+365 day old adults to remain cadets until the day before their 21st birthday, they should be aware that there are some cases that require they transistion to Senior Member. For those who marry before they're 18, marriage makes them emancipated adults, with all those same responsibilities and consequences including subsequent transistion to SM.

[capme]

After just reading the whole thread "Married Cadets" the burning question I have is why allow 18-20 year old cadets in the first place?

At the age of 18 individuals are considered adults, they can purchase and use tobacco products, marry, enter the Armed Forces, enter into a legal-binding contract, etc.

If the rule concerning married cadets stems from adult actions = adult consequences, why allow cadets over the age of 18?

[Flying Pig]

I dont have a problem with cadets over 18.  Especially when you have a cadets in college or in ROTC and they are still contributing to the program, trying to finish up their Spaatz or something like that.  Now, if I had a 19-20 yr old cadet MSgt I would probably sit them down and have a long discussion with them.  In reality though, there are no 21 year old cadets because at age 20 and 364 days they become Senior Members.

What I do have an issue with, and this stems from the marriage thread, is cadets who are clearly taking the leap into adulthood, ie married and starting a family, joining active duty.  Cadets who enlist in the Reserves or the Guard I think still have a good place in the cadet program. But it can be odd to have a cadet who is over 18, in the military reserves, who is still treated like a minor at activities.  Even though you may have an AIr Force Reserve, A1C/ C/LTC who is 20 years old, they still cant actually be "responsible" for anything in CAP.  You could actually end up with a scenario where an 18 yr old FO who lives at home with mom and dad is in charge over a 21 yr old Air Guard Senior Airman/C/Capt who has already moved out and on his own.  Weird.  Oh stop the madness!

[BillB]

Why should a 18-20 year old cadet be barred from continuing in the cadet program just because they are legally adults? The answer is the old Officer Training Program of the 60's where on reaching the age of 18 the cadet could turn to the OTC program. The failure of the old program was two fild.\:
First it didn't allow the OTC member to continue in the cadet program to achieve the Spaatz.
Second it was voluntary so most cadets didn't go to OTC membership, rather they stayed cadets to continue on to the Spaatz.
If a new program which combined the advantages of both cadet and senior membership were "re-invented" which would allow OTC to continue cadet training, while at the same time taking the responsibilities of senior membership this would solve all problems of the 18-20 year old group. Such a program would me manditory where upon the 18th birthday the cadet transferred to OTC status. Allowing the OTC member to continue taking tests for achievements and milestones, and also training for senior member duties would provide a trained group upon their 21st birthday.

[capme]

Oh I totally disagree with this approach.  Part of the maturity process, transitioning from 'childhood" to 'adulthood', is making choices.  Giving the option to have the best of both worlds is not teaching our cadets to make choices.

[Cool Mace]

Why should a 18-20 year old cadet be barred from continuing in the cadet program just because they are legally adults? The answer is the old Officer Training Program of the 60's where on reaching the age of 18 the cadet could turn to the OTC program. The failure of the old program was two fild.\:
First it didn't allow the OTC member to continue in the cadet program to achieve the Spaatz.
Second it was voluntary so most cadets didn't go to OTC membership, rather they stayed cadets to continue on to the Spaatz.
If a new program which combined the advantages of both cadet and senior membership were "re-invented" which would allow OTC to continue cadet training, while at the same time taking the responsibilities of senior membership this would solve all problems of the 18-20 year old group. Such a program would me manditory where upon the 18th birthday the cadet transferred to OTC status. Allowing the OTC member to continue taking tests for achievements and milestones, and also training for senior member duties would provide a trained group upon their 21st birthday.

I've talked to a few people about this(cadet and SM) who think this would be the way to go. After you turn 18 you transfer to SM but can stay a "cadet" to get your Spaatz untill you're 21. When you're at an activity you are treated as a SM but still hold whatever cadet rank you are. Cuts out the legal issue there.

Why go this way? CPPT. There is no diference between a cadet who is 18, 19 or 20 years old and a SM who is 40. When it comes down to it, the cadet has the same rights(outside of CAP anyway) as the SM does. Every cadet I've talked to over 18 thinks this would be the smartest thing to do.

Just my 2 cents.

[BillB]

Capt. Gaddis
When you get down to it, what choices do CAP cadets have? The program as written doesn't allow the cadet many choices. By instituting an OTC program, the OTC members as just as many choices as either a cadet or senior member would have. The OTC program is a transition program for 18-20 year olds to senior membership. Would would still allow continuing to complete achievemnts and milestones, while allowing the OTC member to choice professional development tracks and training. If anything the OTC member has more choices that they would as a cadet only.

[capme]

Yes Bill, I understand what you are saying.  I am saying choose - either be a cadet and work toward milestones and achievements (Spaatz) or become a SM/Flight Officer and work on professional development training and specialty track progression.  One or the other.  Why add more gray area (confusion open to individual CC interpretation) into the already convoluted mix?

[Stonewall]

I was 18 my senior year of high school.  Between 11th and 12th I entered into the Delayed Entry Program (DEP) for the Army.  So for my entire senior year I had already sworn into the military (I know, I wasn't "in" the Army) and was 18 years old.  I would have been highly pissed had I been forced out of the cadet program and not allowed to achieve the Mitchell.

[MIKE]

Merged.