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USAF blues

Started by PWK-GT, July 13, 2005, 03:53:58 AM

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PWK-GT

Anybody know of a place that STOCKS the AF blue trousers?? I ordered twice from CRAPMART, and keep getting trousers that don't fit properly. Even by their sizing......."You need a size 36"--VOILA! Size 36 doesn't fit! "We're sorry, you really need a size 38" VOILA! 38 doesn't fit :-\. After 2 different refunds, and 4 weeks of waiting......I tried The Hock. But alas, they are apparently waiting for peace to be declared in the Middle East before they have any common sizes in stock :'(. Backordered with no idea when they'll ever get them.......3 more weeks wasted. Now I need them in the next 4 weeks for a Wing meeting. >:( As a newer SM, I normally use the BDU's-as that's what our Sqdn uses normally.
Any ideas??
BTW-- My Group ES officer told me to never pay the $175 for the USAF flight suit (NOMEX), as they can be found (even used) for much cheaper. He neglected to mention where I can find them. Until I hear back from him, any ideas there??
"Is it Friday yet"


arajca

I recommend Googling for "AF Blue uniform trousers" and see what comes up. I have found all kinds of items like that - although you will probably find many interesting diversions. ;D

shorning

Quote from: griggs5113 on July 13, 2005, 03:53:58 AM
Anybody know of a place that STOCKS the AF blue trousers??

Air Force, Air Force Reserve, and Air National Guard bases usually have a store where they sell uniforms.  There are even a couple in Illinois.

Pace

eBay, eBay, eBay!!!  If they ain't got it, you don't need it!
Lt Col, CAP

PWK-GT

I have tried all the obvious ones ::)..........ebay ain't got em, nearest BX is 4 hrs away, and Googling turned up nothing.
Still looking..........
"Is it Friday yet"


Bluelakes 13

Keep an eye on Ebay daily.  Things pop up every week.

In the past 6 months I have purchased TWO service jackets, 2 flight suites, 1 lt wt jacket, 1 sweater, 1 trousers, and enough patches/ribbons/badges to overfill my closet.  And all for less that half Capmart/Hock costs. (Jackets were $30!!!)

2Lt. James Kalemis
Deputy Commander Seniors, IL-263
PAO, Group 14

profdan

CAPM 39-1 lists AAFES (Army and Air Force Exchange Service) as an option.

"CAP members may order by phone, using a credit card, from the AAFES catalog; however, the member must first contact AAFES customer service and provide a copy of their CAP membership card in order to be entered into the AAFES system. Only uniform items may be ordered from the catalog."

"AAFES Customer Service can be reached by calling 1-800-527-2345."

I just ordered my blues from CAPMart; so, I'm interested in comparing my experiences with yours.

Westernslope

Is the problem that you can't find the proper size from CAPMart and you are trying to find a place where you can try them on to find the proper size?  If this is the case, ordering on line will not help until you know what size is needed. 

I can never get a size that fit me properly, from AAFES or CAPMart - one size was too small and the next size too large.  I finally purchased larger sizes and had them tailored to fit me.

Major_Chuck

This is why I don't shop for clothes off the internet.  The cut for military clothing is smaller than what is worn in the civilian world.  Don't know why but even uniform items I've gotten from all the sources they run smaller.

Hock Shop purchases from CAPMart so if you are trying to avoid the quality of the goods sold through CAPMart you're not going to be able to do it.

My suggestion, make the 4 hour trip, plan a day around it, and physically go to a clothing sales store and try on the uniform items before you buy them.

-CC
Chuck Cranford
SGT, TNCO VA OCS
Virginia Army National Guard

PWK-GT

Quote from: jkalemis on July 13, 2005, 02:51:13 PM
Keep an eye on Ebay daily.  Things pop up every week.

In the past 6 months I have purchased TWO service jackets, 2 flight suites, 1 lt wt jacket, 1 sweater, 1 trousers, and enough patches/ribbons/badges to overfill my closet.  And all for less that half Capmart/Hock costs. (Jackets were $30)

All those clothes for the guy wearing shorts in a C-172??? :D Just kidding, LT-- but I do read the Blog daily! ;D
Advice taken, but now the clock has really wound down to where I might have to drive to get them. Good to know about the Hock buying them from CRAPMART........I'll just cancel the order.
"Is it Friday yet"


Xeno

Well, the local military surplus store here carries AF Blues on occassion so if you have one near you I'd check there as well. If not then you might just have to make a four hour trip, unfortunately.

As for flight suits, RangerJoes sell sells milspec AF flight suits that are very fairly priced, the catch is... they aren't NOMEX.
http://www.rangerjoes.com/product_info.php?cPath=52_240&products_id=1048


If you don't really care about the material then check 'em out. Otherwise, ebay is great when you can find them on there, also check the good 'ol military surplus stores around your area.


Good luck to you Sir.
C/1st Lt. Josh Sims
C/CC SWR-AR-095

121.5 -- If you crash, we will dash...

SarDragon

Quote from: Xeno on July 14, 2005, 04:39:22 AM
Well, the local military surplus store here carries AF Blues on occassion so if you have one near you I'd check there as well. If not then you might just have to make a four hour trip, unfortunately.

As for flight suits, RangerJoes sell sells milspec AF flight suits that are very fairly priced, the catch is... they aren't NOMEX.
http://www.rangerjoes.com/product_info.php?cPath=52_240&products_id=1048
[image redacted]

If you don't really care about the material then check 'em out. Otherwise, ebay is great when you can find them on there, also check the good 'ol military surplus stores around your area.


Good luck to you Sir.

If it ain't Nomex, it ain't a flight suit, only a wanna-be. The tag should say something like "Coveralls, Flyer, Men, Fire-resistant", and have an NSN and a contract number.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Bluelakes 13

Quote from: griggs5113 on July 14, 2005, 02:48:03 AM
Quote from: jkalemis on July 13, 2005, 02:51:13 PM
Keep an eye on Ebay daily.  Things pop up every week.

All those clothes for the guy wearing shorts in a C-172??? :D Just kidding, LT-- but I do read the Blog daily! ;D
Advice taken, but now the clock has really wound down to where I might have to drive to get them. Good to know about the Hock buying them from CRAPMART........I'll just cancel the order.

LOL, isn't shorts and a NESA shirt THE uniform for flying????

PWK-GT

Quote from: jkalemis on July 14, 2005, 02:47:36 PM
Quote from: griggs5113 on July 14, 2005, 02:48:03 AM
Quote from: jkalemis on July 13, 2005, 02:51:13 PM
Keep an eye on Ebay daily.  Things pop up every week.

All those clothes for the guy wearing shorts in a C-172??? :D Just kidding, LT-- but I do read the Blog daily! ;D
Advice taken, but now the clock has really wound down to where I might have to drive to get them. Good to know about the Hock buying them from CRAPMART........I'll just cancel the order.

LOL, isn't shorts and a NESA shirt THE uniform for flying????

Well, if not, it certainly SHOULD be!!! :D Thanks for the input LT--I actually got a decent line on a complete 1620 uniform for a real good price...here's hoping! Gotta check out their Nomex supply before the Commander's Call.....gonna fly down for that one I think.
"Is it Friday yet"


Lamh Dearg

You should try Trader John's in S. Elgin, IL: http://www.tjosurplus.com/index.htm Trader John's typically has USAF surplus blue shirts, some in v. good condition for as low as $5. You may also be able to pick up other uniform parts there as well. If you happen to be out that way, it's worth a visit. 

If you feel like a trip up north of Chicago, you could also go to Naval Station Great Lakes and visit the Navy Exchange on the Training Center side (not the Boot Camp side of the base). The NavEx has USAF shirts and the wool/polyester blend pants (not the polyester pants). They also have enlisted service dress jackets - note they are the "enlisted" style (with epaulets) not the officer service dress jacket so don't buy one of those there - your options for an officer style service dress jacket as well as the lightweight jacket are AAFES or Scott AFB.  They also have various uniform shoe options, porometric, etc. (Note if you go to NAVSTA GL you will have to get a base access pass at the main gate - typically not a big deal though and by the way, yes, we are allowed to buy there)

shorning

Quote from: Lamh Dearg on July 16, 2005, 02:32:36 AMThey also have enlisted service dress jackets - note they are the "enlisted" style (with epaulets) not the officer service dress jacket so don't buy one of those there

Emphasis mine. 

Enlisted service coats don't have epaulets since stripes are worn on the sleeve.  Officer's service coats do since officers need somewhere to pin the insignia.

profdan

My USAF blues arrived yesterday from CAPMart. Everything I ordered was shipped, and the uniform items fit.

My first experience with CAPMart has been positive.

Dan

MIKE

Quote from: shorning on July 16, 2005, 03:44:35 AM
Quote from: Lamh Dearg on July 16, 2005, 02:32:36 AMThey also have enlisted service dress jackets - note they are the "enlisted" style (with epaulets) not the officer service dress jacket so don't buy one of those there

Emphasis mine. 

Enlisted service coats don't have epaulets since stripes are worn on the sleeve.  Officer's service coats do since officers need somewhere to pin the insignia.

Yes, that would be true if it was in reference to the new style Service Dress, but not so when referring to the old style Service Dress which remains authorized for cadets.
Mike Johnston

Lamh Dearg

"Enlisted service coats don't have epaulets since stripes are worn on the sleeve.  Officer's service coats do since officers need somewhere to pin the insignia."

You're absolutely right - I don't know what I was thinking, or not as the case may be - duh!! Thank you for correcting my silly error!

Just so that my post is now clear, Great Lakes, IL has enlisted-style service dress jackets but as rightly pointed out they are without epaulets. They don't have officer-style jackets. We had one member make that mistake already purchasing the wrong jacket.....

Major_Chuck

Here is an option that you might want to look at if you are stuck with some enlisted service coats.

A squadron in Northern Virginia was able to procure some enlisted jackets and took them to a seamstress who made took the material from one jacket and made epaulets and attached them.  Once added along with the braid on the jacket you can't tell the difference.

BTW:  Cost new of a Officers coat is something like $147 versus $88 for enlisted. 

Just an option you may want to look at.
Chuck Cranford
SGT, TNCO VA OCS
Virginia Army National Guard

MIKE

Quote from: Major_Chuck on July 16, 2005, 03:45:29 PM
BTW:  Cost new of a Officers coat is something like $147 versus $88 for enlisted.

Or 25 bucks used from the Hanscom AFB thrift store... 2 bucks extra for matching trousers.  ;D
Mike Johnston

Pylon

Quote from: MIKE on July 16, 2005, 04:31:09 PM
Quote from: Major_Chuck on July 16, 2005, 03:45:29 PM
BTW:  Cost new of a Officers coat is something like $147 versus $88 for enlisted.

Or 25 bucks used from the Hanscom AFB thrift store... 2 bucks extra for matching trousers.  ;D

Will the Hanscom AFB Thrift Shop take phone orders and ship?   :o

I've been trying to find a reasonably-priced officer's coat forever now.  eBay seems flooded with enlisted and old-style coats, but the officer's coat is a rare item and never in my size.   ::)
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

MIKE

Quote from: Pylon on July 16, 2005, 05:24:36 PM
Quote from: MIKE on July 16, 2005, 04:31:09 PM
Quote from: Major_Chuck on July 16, 2005, 03:45:29 PM
BTW:  Cost new of a Officers coat is something like $147 versus $88 for enlisted.

Or 25 bucks used from the Hanscom AFB thrift store... 2 bucks extra for matching trousers.  ;D

Will the Hanscom AFB Thrift Shop take phone orders and ship?   :o

I've been trying to find a reasonably-priced officer's coat forever now.  eBay seems flooded with enlisted and old-style coats, but the officer's coat is a rare item and never in my size.   ::)

I'll look for the number and PM you, but I don't know if they will take phone orders... A former SM NCO from my old unit found the coat for me, it even came with 1st Lt bars still attached... I found the trousers on my first trip... My last trip I picked up an overcoat... They had a lot of overcoats last time but not many Service Dress coats, so it's hit or miss.
Mike Johnston

Capt Mack

Another place you can get CAP and Air Force uniforms is at Uniforms and Military Equipment Old Lincoln County, Alamagordo, NM.  It is owned and ran by a member of the New Mexico CAP Wing.  He always has a good supply of uniforms and equipment.

http://olcnet.com/index.htm



Kenneth McEntyre
Capt, CAP
Springville Comp. Sq. AL126
Alabama Wing

shorning

Quote from: MIKE on July 16, 2005, 02:54:28 PM
Quote from: shorning on July 16, 2005, 03:44:35 AM
Quote from: Lamh Dearg on July 16, 2005, 02:32:36 AMThey also have enlisted service dress jackets - note they are the "enlisted" style (with epaulets) not the officer service dress jacket so don't buy one of those there

Emphasis mine. 

Enlisted service coats don't have epaulets since stripes are worn on the sleeve.  Officer's service coats do since officers need somewhere to pin the insignia.

Yes, that would be true if it was in reference to the new style Service Dress, but not so when referring to the old style Service Dress which remains authorized for cadets.

Irrelevant.  The old style service coat wasn't "officer or enlisted".  One coat for both.  Therefore, I surmised he was referring to the new service coat, since they are different.  And...I dare you to find an old-style service coat for sale in AAFES or a NEX.

PWK-GT

Well..thanks to all the replies. It seems old eBay was a winner finally!
This weekend I got:
Nomex flight suit, flight jacket, pullover, light weight jacket, 6 pairs of pants, 4 shirts, and a non-nomex flight suit all for the whopping price of $65. I have also located a place that has the new style Class A tunics for $20...............
YMMV ;D
"Is it Friday yet"


Pylon

Quote from: griggs5113
I have also located a place that has the new style Class A tunics for $20...............
YMMV ;D

Oh, do share! 

BTW, I've only ever heard of German and British uniform coats referred to as "tunics," but YMMV.  :)
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

PWK-GT

I can give out the name and number re: the really cheap blue Class A jackets--and woodland BDU's-- if anybody wants it. These are good condition used issue items w/ correct contract numbers (for the purists)Their website is still not up and running yet. PM or email me (griggs5113@juno.com) and I'll pass it along. I should mention that they are currently out of the officer version jackets at the moment. :'(

As to the whole 'tunic' thing--we used that term YEARS ago because too many yahoos thought a 'jacket' was their M-65. I guess old habits die hard.
YMMV--I like that phrase!
"Is it Friday yet"


SarDragon

Quote from: griggs5113 on August 04, 2005, 04:10:39 AM
I can give out the name and number re: the really cheap blue Class A jackets--and woodland BDU's-- if anybody wants it. These are good condition used issue items w/ correct contract numbers (for the purists)Their website is still not up and running yet. PM or email me (griggs5113@juno.com) and I'll pass it along. I should mention that they are currently out of the officer version jackets at the moment. :'(

As to the whole 'tunic' thing--we used that term YEARS ago because too many yahoos thought a 'jacket' was their M-65. I guess old habits die hard.
YMMV--I like that phrase!
BTW, the term "Class A" is an Army thing, not a USAF/CAP thing. That has not been a correct and proper designation for any CAP uniform since at least the 1970s, and probably earlier. Using that terminoology today serves only to perpetuate a long standing error and confuse new folks who will have nowhere to look when they wish to find a definition.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

PWK-GT

Well, it may not be a USAF-CAP thing, but we certainly refer to them still in the Army as Class A's...........Anyone that's been in for a little bit, anyhow. :-*
I also know at least 3 different suppliers (including the one in question) who refer to them as Class A's as well. And in keeping with what I was mentioning to the masses about said company.........I chose to use their terminology as well.
I'm not too worried about anyone that takes whatever they hear/read in an online forum as Gospel.....they have bigger problems than my colloquialisms. ;D
"Is it Friday yet"


SarDragon

#30
That's exactly my point. We are no longer associated with the Army and haven't been for 58 years. Continuing to perpetuate the use of incorrect terminology is a disservice to new members. They are learning things wrong. Not good. "That's the way we've always done it" is rarely a good reason for doing things all by itself.

Regarding outside use of that terminology, if we don't affect the change from within first, it will never happen. A simple letter to a company explaining current policy might be all that's needed. Most of these folks just sell clothing and have little direct association with CAP.

As for the taking a forum post as Gospel, younger folks will do that - "I saw a senior member call them Class As on CAP Talk, so it must be ok." Let's do it right as an example for them.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

PWK-GT

Quote from: SarDragon on August 05, 2005, 05:56:21 AM
"I saw a senior member call them Class As on CAP Talk, so it must be ok."

I have to disagree with you respectfully on this point. I beleive we are not doing ANYONE a service if we do not recognize the real problems that exist. I reiterate---Anyone using a forum, and NOT their own leadership at hand for what is Gospel, has a bigger problem. Why are they NOT getting the straight info from their chain of command? ???  To me, that kind of situation is FAR more serious than any chit-chat in a non-official web posting. Maybe you have experienced more helpless people than I have. :-\
YMMV.
"Is it Friday yet"


SarDragon

Quote from: griggs5113 on August 06, 2005, 03:52:00 AM
I have to disagree with you respectfully on this point.
Good. That encourages dialogue.

Quote from: griggs5113 on August 06, 2005, 03:52:00 AMI beleive we are not doing ANYONE a service if we do not recognize the real problems that exist. I reiterate---Anyone using a forum, and NOT their own leadership at hand for what is Gospel, has a bigger problem.

Agreed. But let's not make it even bigger.

Quote from: griggs5113 on August 06, 2005, 03:52:00 AMWhy are they NOT getting the straight info from their chain of command? ???
 

Now we're getting to the big picture. To answer your Q, I don't have any all-encompassing answers. One probable answer is that the leadership doesn't know any better themselves. Another, more sad, is that they don't care enough to promulgate the straight info. As for my first reason, they may be victims of exactly what I'm trying to encourage folks to change - the perpetuation of bad info based on nothing more than "that's how I learned it, so it must be right", without regard for what might be really right. Hence my encouragement for change from within. If you know what's right, pass it on to those don't know. If they resist, there's not much you can do, but at least you've tried.

Quote from: griggs5113 on August 06, 2005, 03:52:00 AMTo me, that kind of situation is FAR more serious than any chit-chat in a non-official web posting. Maybe you have experienced more helpless people than I have. :-\  YMMV.

It is more serious, but we can start somewhere, and hope that more and more folks bear the standard for "doing it right".

People come to these fora because they aren't getting adequate guidance at their local units. I think we have some obligation to give them the assistance they seek, and at the same time, to refrain from passing on incorrect information. That, to me, is the the basic purpose here. Aside from the pure fun aspects of CAP Talk, and CS,  I post so I can share my knowledge and experience with others, and in turn, learn from these very same people.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

BillB

One reason many questions are asked, is they CAN'T get answers from the chain. Most questions asked appear to be from cadets. Most questions could be answered by knowledgable senior members that cared about their cadets. But this area seems to be lacking in CAP. I know of one unit where "misinformation" is given out regularly because the Commander wants to run everything, but he is totally unaware of current regulations. (he previously served as a Squadron Commander 15 years ago)
The DCC is new to the cadet program, and goes along with the Commander's decisions even when wrong.
Examples of the Commanders errors.
He appointed himself as Testing Officer thru MIMS
He taught an ES class even though he lacks TTT or SET certificate.
He taught a Moral Leadership class that lasted all of 5 minutes. (he does have a degree, thus able to teach ML)
Cadets have not had an ES class that meets the AE portion
In almost a year he has not held any cadet activity outside of meeting nights.
There has been no recruiting program or fund raising program.
At a Color Guard practice, he drove away leaving 3 cadets (2 male, 1 female) with no Senior supervision.
Cadets in his unit can't get correct answers to questions that come up on various aspects of the cadet program simply because no Senior knows the answers or is willing to find the correct answers. It's gotten to the point that cadets want to break away and start their own cadet squadron.
While this may be an wxtrene example of reasons whay cadets ask questions in forums, I doubt this type unit can't be found in every Wing. The lack of senior support of the cadet program. Add to this the normal "politics" of CAP and the general lack of knowledge of current regulations and programs that exist in many Squadrons, and it's understandable why cadets, and seniors often post questions that can't be answered in their home units.

Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104

Buzz

Quote from: griggs5113 on July 13, 2005, 03:53:58 AM
Anybody know of a place that STOCKS the AF blue trousers??


Yep.  AFEES.  Why mess around?  Just go to the nearest AFB or ARB clothing store and try on to find your fit.  Once you know what size, then you can order by mail if you need to. 

Regarding the high price of super suits, yes, you can buy them cheaper at surplus shops or on ebay.  The problem with buying used super suits is that they rarely get rid of them because they are too good to keep.  I've lost track of the number of open rear seams I've seen on guys' flight suits, because they wear out from sitting.   If you buy used instead of new, you will spend as much OR MORE, because the used ones won't last.

You can write off CAP uniforms from your taxes, and you will wear them for years if you buy new.