Boonies anyone?

[BillB]

I think Kach should be barred from posting. Do you realize the expense he has caused members of CAP Talk for new keyboards, plus Windex for the monitor screens. Members have to change keyboards almost as fast as National changes uniform regulations.

[Al Sayre]

He is a definite danger to our electronic equipment...

[RogueLeader]

^^^ The same to you two too. :angel:^^^^

[SARMedTech]

39-1 forbids the boonie cap, but 60-1 requires one in the survival kit.

Cite, please...

A quick search does not find the word "survival" or "boonie" anywhere in 60-1

I couldnt find it there either.

[SARMedTech]

I do seem to remember the Chief of the CAP Health Service trying to push through authorization for wear of the boonie hat for sun protection. It didn't get very far. Someone on here (or on the Portal) countered that the regular BDU cap with liberal use of sunblock provides more protection than a boonie hat.

Absolute bull cookies. The accepted medical findings for about 25 years now have been that sun screen and a hat that throws shade over the whole neck and face is your best option. The ball cap does nothing for the back or sides of your neck. Give me a few months...  by God, I WILL get my boonie authorized.

[PHall]

Give me a few months...I will get my boonie authorized.

Good luck on that. You're only the latest of a long line of folks that have tried, in vain, to get the Boonie authorized.
But hey, more power to ya. You'll need it.

You'll excuse me if I don't hold my breath waiting for that approval.

[DeputyDog]

I do seem to remember the Chief of the CAP Health Service trying to push through authorization for wear of the boonie hat for sun protection. It didn't get very far. Someone on here (or on the Portal) countered that the regular BDU cap with liberal use of sunblock provides more protection than a boonie hat.

Absolute bull cookies. The accepted medical findings for about 25 years now have been that sun screen and a hat that throws shade over the whole neck and face is your best option. The ball cap does nothing for the back or sides of your neck. Give me a few months...  by God, I WILL get my boonie authorized.

Okay.....so if the Chief of the CAP Health Service couldn't get the authorization past the Air Force with that reasoning, you can get it done?

Good luck.

[SARMedTech]

I do seem to remember the Chief of the CAP Health Service trying to push through authorization for wear of the boonie hat for sun protection. It didn't get very far. Someone on here (or on the Portal) countered that the regular BDU cap with liberal use of sunblock provides more protection than a boonie hat.

Absolute bull cookies. The accepted medical findings for about 25 years now have been that sun screen and a hat that throws shade over the whole neck and face is your best option. The ball cap does nothing for the back or sides of your neck. Give me a few months...  by God, I WILL get my boonie authorized.

Okay.....so if the Chief of the CAP Health Service couldn't get the authorization past the Air Force with that reasoning, you can get it done?

Good luck.

Do you go to parks and stick pins in childrens balloons and steal their lollipops?  I guess you couldnt see my tongue in my cheek in my posting.

[DeputyDog]

Do you go to parks and stick pins in childrens balloons and steal their lollipops?

Yes I do. That is why I am no longer a cadet programs officer.

I guess you couldnt see my tongue in my cheek in my posting.

I guess I couldn't either. "Tongue in Cheek" posting is better shown by using:      or  . Not: 

[SARMedTech]

Do you go to parks and stick pins in childrens balloons and steal their lollipops?

Yes I do. That is why I am no longer a cadet programs officer.

I guess you couldnt see my tongue in my cheek in my posting.

I guess I couldn't either. "Tongue in Cheek" posting is better shown by using:      or  . Not: 

Thank you for the advice. I meant no offense to you.

[Stonewall]

I held off and just read the Boonie thread, but I thought I'd throw my own $.02 in, you know, for what it's worth.  Which is actually less than $.02.

I'll start by saying I've owned at least one boonie since I popped out of my mom with my first pair of jungle boots.  I still have at least 6 or 7 stashed somewhere in the house along with one hanging in my locker at my ANG unit and one in my E&E kit in my POV.  I believe boonies are useful and effective means of camouflage.  They break up the outline much better than a standard issue patrool cap.

Contrary to popular belief, I am not totally against people wearing boonies in the field.  But only in the field.  I am a stickler for uniform regulations, even though I don't always agree with them.  I think that's part of being a good leader; you don't always have to agree with the orders you are given or the regs that guide you, but you follow them and set a good example.

The problem is most CAPers I run into, are using "the field" as an excuse to look high speed.  You know, sporting the Gunny Highway or Hooah SEAL look.  They'll argue it to the death, but it's kind of like berets for a lot of people, THEY NEED THEM and will never give in to admiting that they really are a useless piece of headgear.  The difference is, boonies are not useless.  They do block the sun from hitting your ears, but I'd also argue that it doesn't block too much of your neck unless you're a "no-neck".  My personal preference (and this is personal, so don't take offense), is NOT wearing any headgear in the field while on a search.  First, I hate wearing hats.  Second, I can see and hear more.  A regular hat partially blocks the view of what's above you.  A boonie partially blocks that as well as being close to your ears so that everything that scrapes along your hat makes a noise close to your ear thus distracting you from hearing what may be a clue.  Argue it if you want, I won't argue back.  This is based on my experience and my ultra sensitive ears.

Folks in CAP often can't define right from wrong.  Not in the legal/illegal sense, but with the small stuff like taking off a boonie hat when returing from the field or mission base.  You don't wear a boonie into the store, McDonalds or the squadron meeting just because it's "ES training night" in the classroom.  On numerous occasions, in my 20 years of service, I've seen folks show up to missions with boonies and that's the only hat they bring.  Their excuse:  "It's my field hat".  Great, but Micky Dee's is not in the field and we happen to be at the Micky Dee's two feet from the main gate of Andrews AFB.  Or we're training at Quantico MCB and dude decides he wants to get his haircut so he sports his boonie at the MCX.  Yes, that happened.  So my solution to prevent these things from happening, is to not give anyone the option of wearing the boonie.  Call me a hard a** or uniform nazi, but hey, that's just how I roll. 

We can argue that we're not in the "real military" all day.  But in the "real military", you'd be hard pressed to find a Soldier, Sailor, Airman or Marine that would grab their boonie and wear it anywhere but in the field. 

Here is a picture of some members from another wing who were invited to my squadron's FTX in November.  Notice one is wearing a watch cap and another a boonie.  Boonie caps are considered a hot weather hat.  Being in a densely wooded area in winter, I think there was little use for the boonie.  But again, he HAD_TO_HAVE_HIS_BOONIE cuz he was in the field and that's his field hat.  Yes, this was at Prince William Park, right outside the gate of Quantico MCB.

[floridacyclist]

For that matter, is that watch cap even authorized? Or those gaiters? How about a pair of mukluks? Should we pull 341s on someone for wearing extreme cold-wether gear that's not listed in 39-1 if it really is extreme cold weather? Lots of uniform items get worn and nobody seems to care as long as it's useful.

PS Maybe a blaze orange boonie isn't such a bad idea...it would be very useful in the field not just for shade, but visibility as well and would look stupid enough that folks would never wear them unless there was a real need to.

[Stonewall]

I absolutely agree with you.  I found the things those guys are wearing to be a little extreme and for the most part, unnecessary.  I used this picture in a uniform class as an example of "what not to wear".

Here goes my opinion again, but with the watch cap and gore-tex, before they were officially authorized, I'd call you a fool for not having one when the conditions called for it.  But like the boonie, I better not catch you wearing a watch cap outside of the FOB or the field (aka in the public's eye).

[c172drv]

I have to agree with Kirt.  He and I both ran large ground teams up in Northern VA although in different wings.  The proper use of a boonie hat is in the field only.  I've kept on in my gear for a long time.  I'd break it out in the field and only a few times on an airport when doing flight line duty.  I've always enforced wearing the proper gear for the conditions.  That would include the Gortex way before it was officially authorized or civilian gear as needed to stay warm or dry.  I knew many of us did and we made adjustments to make sure actual military components know we were CAP and not regular military while wearing the gortex.  Kirt's old squadron was and probably still is very tight.  It helped that they met on base too.  We always have to be cognizant of what is appropriate. 

     Uniforms are one of those touch things in this organization.  I think that, as seniors officers, we have to set an example.  Unfortunately we let everyone down too often.  I know there are a few changes to uniforms that I'd like.  Some are practical and some are purely aesthetic.  One of these changes would be to authorize the wear of the boonie officially for field use only.  It certainly isn't the only answer to proper field wear to protect from the sun but it can be an intregal component of a system.  We ofter worry more about image than function.  I know I'm prone to ironing all life out of my uniforms and ensuring the proper crease is there but in the field, I tuck the pants into the boots to help keep the critters out, I pull down the sleeves and I'll even flip up the collar on the shirt to keep my neck from becoming as red and looking like I've been to the NASCAR race that I really can't afford to go to.  But, back at base, I roll up the sleeves, flip the collar down, blouse up the pants again ( or at least hide that they are tucked in) and hide the boonie back it the my pack.

     Part of professionalism is the image.  As an airline pilot I always try to have my stuff and my uniform in shape.  Nothing makes people wonder more about things than seeing an unkempt FO or Captain stroll up with stuff hanging out of their bags and the hat dangling from the side of their head with a 5 o'clock shadow at 9am.  Same goes for the image we project as being professionals when we show up to do a job, wether it be an airshow, teach a class or trying to find some 2 year old who wandered off into the woods behind the house.  If you look the part you usually act the part and people will believe in you until you show them otherwise.

OK, thought this would be a short soap box speech but it wasn't.  Stepping down now.

John Jester


BTW  Hey Kirt, how's it going down in the sunshine state?

[SARMedTech]

You know, I believe that is the most rational discussion of the wear of gear I have heard. I mean in general its like EMS. Sometimes we get a REALLY messy call. I mean one that tears you up appearance wise. But before we run another call, we clean up, change uniforms if necessary, wipe the inside of the rig down with bleach, make up the cot with clean sheets, pillow cases and blankets, empty the trash and if necessary wash the rig. Theres no way around it: on some calls you are just gonna get "ate up." But the next person that is looking to you to help them in an emergency wants to see a pressed shirt and trousers, clean boots and a clean EMT. And theres also stuff that we use and do outside of the view of the public because they just dont need (or in some cases want) to see it (even though they are rubber necking because they think they want to see it). Someone ejected from a car comes to mind. If you dont have to look at that scene and get hip deep in it, you do not want to. Also, for our victim, whether they have survived or not, we do our utmost to protect their dignity as a human being, so we will grab every sheet off the truck if necessary and get a bunch of fire fighters and LEOs out there to make a human curtain around our patient/victim. Im a hard nose when it comes to my patients, especially in motor vehicle accidents that are extremely bad. If the media shows up, and wants to take shots of the wrecked cars, etc...fine. But I NEVER allow them pull the famous trick of filming the pool of blood. Its not dignified, theres no need for it and if the family of that person sees that it could be very traumatic for them. Doesnt happen on my crew.

So it is with the boonie. I think its a valuable and necessary part of the job. Its a hot weather cover/possibly rain cover but I totally agree that it (or any other cover) has no business indoors or in sight of the public. I also agree with those that have said that some CAPers wants to wear it to look high speed. Tough I guess. I would just like to see it authorized as necessary, the CO or GTL or whoever can order it as UOD wear as they see fit, but other wise it stays folded in your pack or your pocket. Theres a reason why they are meant to be crushed up. Its so you can stuff them away when they arent mean to be used. I think there are those among us who may have seen the Navy Seal Team documentaries one too many times...perhaps the team pictured in that photo. Thanks for the input guys. I joke about the boonie all the time but I really agree exactly with what you are saying.

[Stonewall]

or trying to find some 2 year old who wandered off into the woods behind the house. 

You talking about the Karynne Sheldon, the one in PWFP area?  I remember that one well.  Got the page in History class in college and walked right out of class and didn't come back for a few days.

BTW  Hey Kirt, how's it going down in the sunshine state?

I'm smoked, spent Sat, Sun and Tue surfing.  I love my 5 on 4 off schedule and having part of my patrol area on 2 miles of beach front.  All doing very well but I just couldn't pull myself to get back involved with CAP.  I've tried twice but keep getting disappointed, mostly due to cadets of today.

Thanks for the input on the boonies.  I'm not the best one to explain even my own opinion. 

[arajca]

The only problem with "For Field Use Only" uniform items is too many CAP members don't comprehend what that means. This applies to seniors and cadets.

While this is most likely a training and supervision issue, most commanders either don't comprehend "For Field Use Only" or don't have the time to babysit all their members.

Aside from that, Big Blue came down hard on CAP using boonies. So, for the present and near future, boonies are verbotten.

[SARMedTech]

So I understand Mama Blue not wanting to see us in boonies. I read that 5x5. But isnt it possible to say to cadets and officers "Boonies are a field cover ONLY. You may wear them for SARs and SARexs  in non-urban settings only. You will not wear that cover in sight of the public, under any circumstances at any time. Does everyone comprehend that?"  I mean I understand that the covers are forbidden to us, but are there cadets and officers that are so thick that they cannot comprehend and comply with a direct order?

[SarDragon]

I mean I understand that the covers are forbidden to us, but are there cadets and officers that are so thick that they cannot comprehend and comply with a direct order?

Yes.

[arajca]

How many times have we seen uniforms worn incorrectly?

Hint: I quit counting.