Just a Suggestion ... to solicit some discussion

Started by Chaplaindon, May 26, 2006, 01:44:19 PM

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Becks

Quote from: afgeo4 on May 30, 2006, 03:00:46 AM
Ok, someone please explain to me how the khaki utility uniform would serve SAR teams better than the navy blue current distinctive utility or the bdu?

The khaki was proposed for the mission base personnel, not the actual SAR team in the field.

BBATW

NIN

Quote from: Becks on May 30, 2006, 08:20:41 PM
The khaki was proposed for the mission base personnel, not the actual SAR team in the field.

Wow, that's awesome!  I mean, ANOTHER uniform!  That's EXACTLY what is needed!  While they're at it, why not make it more distinctive: add a beret!

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
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ZigZag911

Here's my idea:

1) some version of the khaki (long sleeve/short sleeve, epaulets  on shirt, with dress coat available) as senior dress uniform...for all seniors (no more USAF -- it would reduce a lot of tension between CAP and our parent service if our adult members stopped looking like the regular Air Force, sort of, after a fashion)

2) blue BDUs for all

3) one color flight suit, whatever we can get in Nomex that the Air Force doesn't use

4) cadets dress combinations continue to be USAF-style; at worst, they are mistaken for AFJROTC

Phase this in at same time as/in place of ABU (2011 or later, i thought I saw)

shorning

Here's a strange idea:  put the mission base staff in BDUs or the field uniforms.  That being said, there is no reason you can't look presentable in a utility uniform while working mission base.  If you're worried about "dressing up" to work mission base then you've lost focus on the mission. 

ZigZag911


Chaplaindon

Sorry about my silence, I was "lurking" out-of-town using my Palm Pilot and was unable to reply.

IMHO we need to make our personnel UNIFORM. That will mean either that the USAF "gives" on it's H/W standards or CAP adopts --at least a SM-- uniform that everyone can and then MUST wear. Since I doubt our "cousins" in the USAF are going to budge on anything that appears to benefit anyone in CAP beyond the age of recruitment (if then), CAP needs to do the moving and for the sake of operational efficiency get rid of the "rainbow" of uniform colors, styles, and markings and adopt UNIFORMITY in its uniforms. CAP's current use of the word "uniform" in any sentence describing the apparel worn by our personnel is essentially an oxymoron.

Getting rid of the USAF uniforms would doubtless anger some in our SM ranks, although I suspect that the people most angered are those most likely to be "playing air force" and not being altruistic community and national servants. Some would "squawk," others hopefully would seen the benefits of looking like a team. Who knows, if we began looking like a team (instead of a bunch of would-be debutantes trying to avoid wearing the same gown to the ball) we just MIGHT begin to act like a team.

IMHO, the blue service dress which is IGNORANTLY specified explicitly by several wings for wear at inapropriate times (cf: mission staff at a SAREX/EVAL) is not an easy uniform to wear, keep clean, or travel with ... especially to remote sites. The khaki uniform was thus proposed as a simplification of all of the non-USAF uniforms. It is easy care. It is attractive and professional. It is historic recalling an earlier period in both CAP and the USAF/USAAF, etc. It is distinctive from the USAF uniforms so as to prevent someone from mistakenly saluting one of us (the HORROR of such a thought ... ).

BTW, I cannot find ANY regulation REQUIRING a CAP SM to salute ANYONE, anytime. It is a suggested courtesy, only. Two "sides" COULD and CAN "play" the non-saluting "game," if need be. Sorry, back to the point ...

The "new-1505's" would replace the grays (can you say ugly -- and even harder to manage and travel with than the blues), the blue/whites (for less FORMAL events), and the polo shirt (which I think MAY be useful in hot weather flying --and soraing) but looks shabby, especially after a few washings. The 1505's would become the "professional working/service" uniform. NOT for wear in the field ... tromping through the mud on a GT, or changing the oil on the 172, but in "mission" (we have 3, you recall ...) work (e.g. classes, squadron meetings, EOC staffing, mission staff, etc.).

This would NOT be the ADDITION of another "color-band" in our uniform "rainbow" but a sensible simplification of uniforms (and the "spectrum") for the sake of the efficiency wrought by uniformity.

I would also ditch the DARK BLUE BBU in favor of a cooler -- and easier to spot from the air-- khaki BDU (perhaps with a blaze orange crew neck t-shirt and baseball cap and/or "boonie" for distinction and visibility).

Again, ditch the USAF uniforms and the uniform "fashion" hodge-podge and SIMPLIFY and DE-USAF-i-fy.

As for the berets, leave those to the Army and the Girl Scouts.

Frankly, I believe that many of the uniform wear problems could be solved in large measure by simpler rules and fewer confusing choices.

An add'l $0.02 worth.
Rev. Don Brown, Ch., Lt Col, CAP (Ret.)
Former Deputy Director for CISM at CAP/HQ
Gill Robb Wilson Award # 1660
ACS-Chaplain, VFC, IPFC, DSO, NSO, USCG Auxiliary
AUXOP

mikeylikey

First, CAP PAMPHLET 151 (E).  It goes into saluting.  You are right, it is a suggested courtesy, but so are the military customs regarding saluting. In the customs and courtesies pamphlets and guides of the military branches, saluting is laid out just like CAP's suggestion is, as a suggestion.  However, it is a Custom, and customs tend to be the basis of society.  I surely do not want to look like the idiot military officer and not return the salute of CAP person.  You will find this "customary" of almost every officer in a similar situation.  Anyway, sorry way off course! 

I have to disagree with the need to get rid of the AF uniform.  It is a privilege, one of a very few that the AF has agreed to betstow on the organization.  That is entirely a different topic though.  History was discussed in the previous reply, throughout CAP's history the organization has worn a slightly varied uniform of the current uniform worn by either the Army or Air Force depending on time period.  Going back to Khaki should not be considered "historical" as it is not following in the tradition of over 60 years of existence.  There was not a single time that CAP did not wear a modified variant of the Air Force uniform, other than the short periods when the AF decided to change uniforms and CAP had to play catch up. 

Honestly, no other organization cares what the CAP person is wearing.  All they care about is if they are competant and successful at their job.  Would you care if the FEMA or DHS person was wearing a T-shirt and shorts when they gave you food or water after you just survived a hurricane?  Uniformity has it's place in the Military.  It even has a small presence in CAP, but don't forget we are a civilian organization, and have had a long history of being able to choose what we are going to wear from a wide range of choices. 

Sorry to shoot down any ideas, but lets take what we have, work with it, and focus on becoming better professionals, not better dressed professionals.  I do not think we have seen the last significant changes to the uniforms from National, so I would not be surprised if they announce something very similar to what Chaplaindon has proposed!
What's up monkeys?

Jerry

Quote from: BillB on May 26, 2006, 07:02:59 PM
The 1960's khaki 1505 uniform required little if any ironing. And it was worn with blue flight cap, blue belt and black shoes.  Basically it was a summer weight uniform and thus the current USAF blue windbreaker could be worn with it without it looking 100% like an USAF uniform. The uniform has either skirt or pants for females.
The first khaki uniform for CAP was authorized right after CAP was organized, so CAP being in a khaki uniform takes us back to our roots.

Great idea! :clap:

I think the 1505 was a sharp uniform and would certainly be distinct and unique to CAP and solve a lot of the multi-uniform hodge podge we have now!  I remember as a cadet at encampment having them starched and creased to the nines--so much so at parades/reviews, we had to stand in a chair in order to put them on.  And it took a LOT of wriggling to get in them! ;D

But I definitely think the khaki idea should be sent forward and let us  do away with such a large number of uniforms. It's getting so us old heads can't keep up with all of them, and tend NOT to wear one at all just so as not to get scolded about something wrong! ;D


Jerry

SarDragon

Quote from: Al Sayre on May 26, 2006, 05:16:11 PM
AlphaSigOU is right about the two types.  IIRC, on board ship, the Officers and Chiefs wore the CNT, and the doubleknit polyester uniforms (a material I generally hate with a passion) were worn ashore and in shore duty billets where "looking good" was a priority.  The CNT has to be ironed and starched to look good, but IMHO it is a much more comfortable uniform.

CNT is NOT authorized for shipboard wear, and hasn't been since before I retired in 1989. They are part synthetic and a fire hazard. Wash khakis are the UOD underway.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

BillB

Mikey... You're wrong, CAP wore the exact uniform as the USAAF and USAF from 1942 to the late 1960's And it was basically a khaki uniform. (other styles included the 505 and 1505 which were khaki based) The only difference between a CAP uniform and USAAF or USAF was the insignia, Wings, shoulder patch and cutouts and breast patch. There was a period from 1942 late 1943 that CAP did wear the standard USAAF uniform with red epaulets and red sleeve braid on the service coat. So CAP has a long history of wearing khaki uniforms.
Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104