BDUs at school

[Hawk200]

I guess things have changed. In times past, recruiters didn't wear utilities. I'm a little surprised to hear of the Navy and the Corps doing it, they used to be pretty strict on utilities off post.

I guess that casual clothing drift continues. Maybe in ten years it will be back to the formal stuff.

I still do not believe that trying to sell our program with BDU's is the right thing to do. If blues don't bring them in, I'd have to question the motivation.

[RiverAux]

Personally, I think BDUs are a better recruiting tool as they signify getting some real work done while blue are just dress-up clothes. 

[Hawk200]

Personally, I think BDUs are a better recruiting tool as they signify getting some real work done while blue are just dress-up clothes. 

It's my belief that they're not to signify getting work done, but a uniform to work in. Just my opinion. If I were a commander, I wouldn't authorize the practice. There are plenty of excuses, the most common being that cadets always get BDU's first. They shouldn't be, there's a free blue uniform program for them. If BDU's were to be representative, then they would be issued first.

Maybe there should be a National guideline on this, considering the various opinions. But then, they'd probably leave it up to the commander. Considering that National Personnel doesn't like cloth nametags on flightsuits, I'd be surprised to see them officially allowing BDUs to school.

Think of it this way: would you wear BDU's to church (if you attend)? School is just as formal a setting.

[JayT]

Personally, I think BDUs are a better recruiting tool as they signify getting some real work done while blue are just dress-up clothes. 

Maybe there should be a National guideline on this, considering the various opinions. But then, they'd probably leave it up to the commander. Considering that National Personnel doesn't like cloth nametags on flightsuits, I'd be surprised to see them officially allowing BDUs to school.

What do cloth nametags have to do with BDU's?

[Hawk200]

Personally, I think BDUs are a better recruiting tool as they signify getting some real work done while blue are just dress-up clothes. 

Maybe there should be a National guideline on this, considering the various opinions. But then, they'd probably leave it up to the commander. Considering that National Personnel doesn't like cloth nametags on flightsuits, I'd be surprised to see them officially allowing BDUs to school.

What do cloth nametags have to do with BDU's?

Never mind. It's not important.

[winterg]

^ Actually, I'm kind of curious about the point myself.  Not trying to be argumentative here, just wondering the connection between BDU's and cloth nametapes.

And as far as being representative of our organization, I don't see a difference between blues and BDU's.  Worn correctly with proper decorum they both accomplish the same thing; showing us to be part of an organization that derives many of it's values, customs, and traditions from a branch of the armed forces. 

We can pretend it is something else all we want but we are in fact instilling the traditions of warfighters into our youth.  I know times have changed and everything, and I hate saying the following phrase as it is used as a justification all too often  , but...... When I was a cadet, it was not such a negative PR issue to acknowledge that fact.

[es_g0d]

I think the poster was referring to cloth name TAGS as are worn on the flightsuit.  At least that's how I understood the subtlety!

Of course, virtually no one in the "real" Air Force wears leather name tags.  Some enterprising CAP members have caught on to this and purchased cloth ones.  I hope I don't need to quote chapter and verse from 39-1 for everyone to know that's simply out-of-there!  Leather only for CAP, for now.  As an aside, the only other folks that wear leather name tags on the flightsuit are the brand-brand-new undergraduate flying students.  USAFA cadets have a glossy plastic tag that's reminiscent of leather, or perhaps "pleather."

[JayT]

I understood he was talking about the cloth nametags for the bag, but I don't really see how that relates at all to NHQ authorizing BDU's for wear at school.

[Ned]

Think of it this way: would you wear BDU's to church (if you attend)? School is just as formal a setting.

Sir,

I'm thinking that either you are a church-goer that does not go to public secondary school or a public secondary school student that does not often attend church.

But based on my experience as a church-goer with a couple of children not so long out of public high school in California, one could never confuse a group of youth just leaving services with a group of students just leaving school.

IOW, I don't think the students perceive school as having the same formality as Sunday services.   

I honestly hope it is different where you live.

[jimmydeanno]

The last encampment that I attended I went to the base chapel for service on Sunday morning.  All of those in attendance were in blues.  The chaplain, well, he was in ACUs.  I wonder if he got the memo that you don't wear BDUs to church...

[Hawk200]

I guess I'm just an old breed, or I had a far more formal upbringing. The general concensus seems to be "Wear whatever you want, anything goes".

Then again, I don't hear many people saying "Yes, maam" or "No, sir" or "Excuse me" these days. It's "naw" and "yeah", and "get outta my way". People don't seem to know how to talk or interact with each other with any form of dignity anymore.

The days of your work wear staying at work, and being more presentable outside seem to be over.

[winterg]

The days of your work wear staying at work, and being more presentable outside seem to be over.

I think that happened a few decades ago! 

I still do not see the connection, though, between looking presentable, respectable, or what have you with cadets wearing the BDU to school. (approved and worn properly)

[Hawk200]

The days of your work wear staying at work, and being more presentable outside seem to be over.

I think that happened a few decades ago! 

I still do not see the connection, though, between looking presentable, respectable, or what have you with cadets wearing the BDU to school. (approved and worn properly)

That's the problem. You don't see. You just quoted the very reason, and you still don't see. It's a working uniform. It's not meant to be an "Look at me, I'm cool!" outfit, it's meant to be utilitarian and get dirty.

But as for the "approved" part, I do have input on that in my own unit. I won't have to worry about it, considering that I'll be the one approving (or rather, not).

[RiverAux]

I would propose that most members of the public who come in contact with a uniformed CAP member, are more than likely going to see them in BDUs.  Why?  Because that is the most common uniform worn by CAP members at airshows (which often have 100K+ people) is BDUs. 

One might say that those CAP members are "working" so the BDU is appropriate, and in some cases that is true, but those CAP members assigned to the recruiting display are rarely going to be doing anything that they couldn't do just as well in blues. 

So, if you're going to say it is inappropriate to wear blues to school, better be consistent about it.

[jimmydeanno]

I guess I'm just an old breed, or I had a far more formal upbringing. The general concensus seems to be "Wear whatever you want, anything goes".

Hawk200,

I understand your sentiment and in many ways agree with you.  In many ways the deformalization of society has been beneficial and in others it hasn't.

Growing up you didn't wear your Sunday clothes on Tuesday and you most certainly didn't wear your Tuesday clothes on Sunday.  I wore khakis and a polo shirt (business casual) to school everyday, despite the grunge trends of the 90's.

As for recruiting.  If I had the choice, I would have my cadets wear blues one day to school instead of BDUs.  I think that BDUs don't send the initial message that we want to convey.  I don't think that there is anything wrong with BDUs in general, but the initial public perception is different than I think I'd want.

EDIT: Forgot to finish.  However, if BDUs are what is going to get someone in the door so we can show them how awesome our program is, then so be it.  Most of the younger cadets don't like wearing blues, but once they get older, they see the light.

[Rotorhead]

The days of your work wear staying at work, and being more presentable outside seem to be over.

I think that happened a few decades ago! 

I still do not see the connection, though, between looking presentable, respectable, or what have you with cadets wearing the BDU to school. (approved and worn properly)

That's the problem. You don't see. You just quoted the very reason, and you still don't see. It's a working uniform. It's not meant to be an "Look at me, I'm cool!" outfit, it's meant to be utilitarian and get dirty.

Precisely.

[jeders]

I would propose that most members of the public who come in contact with a uniformed CAP member, are more than likely going to see them in BDUs.  Why?  Because that is the most common uniform worn by CAP members at airshows (which often have 100K+ people) is BDUs. 

One might say that those CAP members are "working" so the BDU is appropriate, and in some cases that is true, but those CAP members assigned to the recruiting display are rarely going to be doing anything that they couldn't do just as well in blues. 

So, if you're going to say it is inappropriate to wear blues to school, better be consistent about it.

I don't know about Hawk's squadron or your squadron, but in my squadron, recruiters wear blues to air shows. If we have people "working" the air show, then they can wear BDUs. But if you're at the recruiting booth, you're in blues.

As far as wearing uniforms to school, I agree that BDUs don't convey the right first message. Blues are generally a better uniform to wear for recruiting.

[RiverAux]

When it comes right down to it, certain potential cadets are going to be attracted to blues while others will be attracted to BDUs.  While I certainly believe that there are potential cadets who will be turned off by the blues, I don't think there are many that are going to be turned off by BDUs.  That is why I think that on balance, you get better bang for your buck with BDUs. 

But, I think this is better left off as a decision for the local commander and would strongly oppose any sort of blanket requirement to wear one or the other. 

[winterg]

I still do not see the connection, though, between looking presentable, respectable, or what have you with cadets wearing the BDU to school. (approved and worn properly)

That's the problem. You don't see. You just quoted the very reason, and you still don't see.

I do see the point you are trying to make, I guess the correct verbage would have been to say that I don't agree with your argument.  Fashions and perceptions change over time.  It's a fact Fact.  I'm not saying this is good or bad.  It just is.  Whose ideas of proper mode of dress should we adhere to?  I'd rather not wear spats and a scarf every time I leave the house to conform to the perception of respectability from years ago.

I'm all for wearing the proper attire for the correct occasion.  I wear a full tuxedo at least twice a month to Lodge.  I dress respectfully when I attend synagogue.  And no matter what CAP uniform we wear we will be judged by the public based on that individuals social views, political views, upbringing, family history, and a myriad of other factors that we can't change. 

My opinion is that it is not nearly as important what uniform we wear in public so much as it is how we wear it.

[majdomke]

On a lighter note... WIWAC, we wore our class B uniforms every year to school on December 1st or the Friday before if it fell on a weekend. Was an excellent recruiting source. I allowed my cadets to do the same this past year and it was well received.