BDUs at school

[hatentx]

While in this situation it turned out alright (wearing bdus to school) I know that in my High School we were not allowed to wear them.  Even the JROTC couldn't wear them.  It was grounds for suspension.  Something to do with gangs and the such.  So I am glad this was not the situation. 

I think part of the relaxed travel standards is because of the troops traveling back and forth to Iraq and such is in the utility uniform and the thought " Well this is what I wore before"  I recall in AIT having to wear Class As home for Christmas and after Graduation.  Then they threaded us that they had DSGTs everywhere and that they would know who we were and if we got caught it was out rank.  haha being a dumb private I believed them.

Maybe to be a member on CAPTALK we need to have sensitivity training?  I know my feelings have been hurt once maybe and I am sure I can hurt some as well.  I forget I am not dealing with my soldiers who I can call choice names and treat them like soldiers, plus a forum like this gives people "internet guts"

[TEAM SURGE]

Alright eveyone, stand down.

Just for your information, our Brahma Cadet Flight that meets at Memorial Middle School in Kingsville, Texas regularly wears their uniform to school.  Tuesday is blues and Thursday is BDUs.  They sometimes post the colors in the mornings and are visible.

We have after school meetings right afterschool as well as during "Lunch" and will again during the Advisory/Activity Period when Standardized Testing ends.

We have maintained a good relationship with the campus and the world did not end.  In fact, many times the opposite has occured.  The cadets have distinguished themselves as leaders and feel very connected through CAP.  

I d not believe in unauthorized disorganized uniform wear, but there are occasions where and when (spacetime?) it is appropriate.  

Also, just because a cadet is new doesn't mean they are some sort of "imbecile."  

This sort of thing is why I no longer recommend my members (cadet and senior)visit CAPTALK or CADETSTUFF.   There is no gentle guiding hand here from many of us, only the abrupt "slap in the face."  I have had several new people PM me about such feelings.

They came here for answers and, instead, got their zeal to serve tarnished.  People please, if you have such comments to make do it in PM.  The One-ups-manship is distasteful and very unbecoming.  

This is why I have been debating on closing my account on here since the day I signed up for it.

When I joined CAP I was confused on whether I was allowed to wear my uniform to school or not. I am sure many of us were. Although I never did attempt to wear mine to school, lighten up.

I personnally I think this sight is over governed by people who have no lives outside of CAP. So to say that is just my oppinion so I don't want 50 PM telling me that I should just close mine or that I am being "offensive" to anybody.

[es_g0d]

While in this situation it turned out alright (wearing bdus to school) I know that in my High School we were not allowed to wear them.  Even the JROTC couldn't wear them.  It was grounds for suspension.  Something to do with gangs and the such.

Wow, I'd love to have a talk with the administration of that school district.  A proper military uniform has something (ANYTHING?) to do with gangs?  Ugh!  Sometimes its the educators who need education.

[Hawk200]

While in this situation it turned out alright (wearing bdus to school) I know that in my High School we were not allowed to wear them.  Even the JROTC couldn't wear them.  It was grounds for suspension.  Something to do with gangs and the such.

Wow, I'd love to have a talk with the administration of that school district.  A proper military uniform has something (ANYTHING?) to do with gangs?  Ugh!  Sometimes its the educators who need education.

I've actually run into people that beleive that the military is nothing more than a bunch of gangs. It's wierd to me, but there are people that believe it.

Kinda proves to me that they've never been military. If they had, they'd know it's far too political to be a gang. 

[Sleepwalker]

   As a Squadon Commander, I sometimes like to joke about our Cadets that

"Our 'Gang' colors are woodland camo, and our 'Gang Sign' is the salute"

   I also have had Cadets ask me to wear their uniforms to school.  I agreed on three conditions: 1. that all the CAP Cadets who attend the school wear their uniforms on the same day (about five of them) 2. that they check with the school administrators first, and it is OK with them (it was) 3. that they alternate between the Blues and BDUs. 
   We have had a very good response from this, and I think it has been a great PR and recruiting tool.  My advice and opinion?  Don't get too caught up in the 'its not in the regs' argument.  So what if the Cadet feels great pride in wearing the uniform to school, and the positive attention it gets - what's wrong with that?     
     

[Hawk200]

   As a Squadon Commander, I sometimes like to joke about our Cadets that

"Our 'Gang' colors are woodland camo, and our 'Gang Sign' is the salute"

I'd stop joking about that. All it takes is one person to hear it that doesn't know you're joking, and then it's all over the papers that CAP Cadets are a gang. There are people stupid enough to believe everything they read or hear.

   I also have had Cadets ask me to wear their uniforms to school.  I agreed on three conditions: 1. that all the CAP Cadets who attend the school wear their uniforms on the same day (about five of them) 2. that they check with the school administrators first, and it is OK with them (it was) 3. that they alternate between the Blues and BDUs. 
   We have had a very good response from this, and I think it has been a great PR and recruiting tool.  My advice and opinion?  Don't get too caught up in the 'its not in the regs' argument.  So what if the Cadet feels great pride in wearing the uniform to school, and the positive attention it gets - what's wrong with that?     

I get a little nervous when people don't want to get "too" caught up in the regs. We have them for a reason.

Personally, I've seen a lot of very negative attention at times when uniforms were worn to school. More often than not, cadets in BDU's were the problem. The BDU is not an appropriate uniform for school. For CAP, the BDU is an "in house" utility uniform. At our meetings, it's fine. On a mission, it's fine. Wearing it to school is not. Blues are the uniform for public appearance.

Pride is a double edged sword. It can be a bad thing. We shouldn't be teaching pride, we should be teaching confidence. And you don't get that from a uniform.

[tarheel gumby]

 This is a different time now than in the 80's WIWAC. It was a good recruiting tool then. I just don't know now with soo much overreaction in the school systems (from the administrators). I say use caution and always get your Squadron commander's permisson + the School's before hand.

[Stonewall]

I wore my CAP uniform to school at least 2 or 3 times.  I think I remember it being a national effort to get cadets to wear uniforms on CAP's birthday, which I did once.

Other times I wore it on "career day" when the military recruiters came in to set up their booths; we set up ours.

[JoeTomasone]

Don't get too caught up in the 'its not in the regs' argument.     

Wow.   Just..... Wow.   

[Sleepwalker]

Everything I have ever have posted on this website gets attacked - even when it is meant to be motivational.  This is my last post.  I am never posting this site again, I am sorry to say, and I will recomend to any  members who ask that they avoid this forum because I love working in CAP but all I get reading everyone's 'hit pieces' against each other is demotived.

 
Thank you RiverAux, Major Carralles, Caphistorian, Stonewall, Rougue Leader and the many others who gave rational, inciteful advice  - and when you disagreed, did so with respect.  Good bye. 

P.S.>All I meant by  "...it's not in the regs" is that I don't  'make up' regs that aren't there.   I am known as a stickler for following the regs.

[RogueLeader]

Seriously,  it's one thing to be "Darn the regs, I'm going to do whatever I want!" and it's quite another to make a judicious choice to allow BDU's at school.  The regs do NOT say exactly where it is appropriate, and not in a case by case basis.  The commander made his choice by authorizing it.  Deal with it.  Don't get your drawers in a bunch because he saw the situation than you would.

It's not like they were worn to a KKK meeting, or a Neo-Nazi rally.


yeah, yeah.  Godwins Law I know. I lose.

[Hawk200]

P.S.>All I meant by  "...it's not in the regs" is that I don't  'make up' regs that aren't there.   I am known as a stickler for following the regs.

Your statement was "Don't get too caught up in the 'its not in the regs' argument." A lot of people use that type of statement to justify all kinds of things, usually to their own benefit.

I can agree with "don't make up regs". That's an unfortunate problem, too. People also do that to their own benefit.

We all have to be careful about how what we say (or type) will be received. There are things that are funny to some people, not to others. I'm not saying that people should be humorless, just avoid jokes that could be taken the wrong way. Gang jokes are one of those things. We have to be careful.

Other things require an appropriateness. Which uniforms to wear to school is one of these things. BDUs and flightsuits aren't meant for that kind of thing. Look at military recruiters. How many times have you ever seen a recruiter in their office in anything other than blues (or equivalent for other branches)? Not many. The utility uniform isn't meant for that.

Showing off BDUs is not really a good recruiting method. Let cadets wear blues to school, and have them invite others to meetings. Those potentials will see the BDUs eventually, but that uniform shouldn't be a selling point. We don't need to be putting forth the impression that we're "playing Army". I think it turns off parents too.  We have to consider such things if we wish to grow.

[PHall]

[major snippage]

This sort of thing is why I no longer recommend my members (cadet and senior)visit CAPTALK or CADETSTUFF.   There is no gentle guiding hand here from many of us, only the abrupt "slap in the face."  I have had several new people PM me about such feelings.

They came here for answers and, instead, got their zeal to serve tarnished.  People please, if you have such comments to make do it in PM.  The One-ups-manship is distasteful and very unbecoming.  

Hey Joe, if CAPTalk and CadetStuff are so evil, then why are YOU still posting on them?

I thought that Commanders were supposed to lead by example.

Do as I say and not as I do is NOT a good example.

[Major Carrales]

[major snippage]

This sort of thing is why I no longer recommend my members (cadet and senior)visit CAPTALK or CADETSTUFF.   There is no gentle guiding hand here from many of us, only the abrupt "slap in the face."  I have had several new people PM me about such feelings.

They came here for answers and, instead, got their zeal to serve tarnished.  People please, if you have such comments to make do it in PM.  The One-ups-manship is distasteful and very unbecoming.  

Hey Joe, if CAPTalk and CadetStuff are so evil, then why are YOU still posting on them?

I thought that Commanders were supposed to lead by example.

Do as I say and not as I do is NOT a good example.

In all communities there are people who must try to maintain "higher" standards.  To leave this forum, for me, because I am offended by some post or by the tenor of the discussion lacks integrity.

As a Public Affairs Officer and squadron commander I cannot sit idly by and allow people to violate the CAP core values.  Especially when modertaion of this forum is so strict on making sure things are in the correct catergory and locking topic drift, but so lacks on calling people for "dogpiling" or "body slamming" a newbie (Cadet or Senior).

I was very pleased that so many others "called" people on the relatively harsh treatment of some of the newbies (and most of it in PM).  It is a sign that people are "getting it" and changing.  The Official moderators cannot read every post, that is why it is up to us to defend and shape the discussions.

You, Sir, should be one of those providing that moderation...not calling me into question for trying to do so.

[winterg]

Look at military recruiters. How many times have you ever seen a recruiter in their office in anything other than blues (or equivalent for other branches)? Not many. The utility uniform isn't meant for that.

Showing off BDUs is not really a good recruiting method. Let cadets wear blues to school, and have them invite others to meetings. Those potentials will see the BDUs eventually, but that uniform shouldn't be a selling point. We don't need to be putting forth the impression that we're "playing Army". I think it turns off parents too.  We have to consider such things if we wish to grow.

The recruiting station was right next to the bar I worked at before I moved to Milwaukee last month.  I saw recruiters in dress uniforms maybe once a week.  Almost always in utilities.  I know because they usually had their lunch in the bar and then drinks afterwards.  Also in uniform.  And, no. I am NOT using this as a justification, just an observation.  Recruiters routinely wear utilities these days.

And I am curious as to why you believe that BDU's ate not a good recruiting method.  Not counting the fact that they look horrible covered in hideously colored patches! lol When we had recruiting booths we always had some in dress and some in utility uniforms to show off the different uniforms.

[Major Carrales]

[major snippage]

This sort of thing is why I no longer recommend my members (cadet and senior)visit CAPTALK or CADETSTUFF.   There is no gentle guiding hand here from many of us, only the abrupt "slap in the face."  I have had several new people PM me about such feelings.

They came here for answers and, instead, got their zeal to serve tarnished.  People please, if you have such comments to make do it in PM.  The One-ups-manship is distasteful and very unbecoming.  

Hey Joe, if CAPTalk and CadetStuff are so evil, then why are YOU still posting on them?

I thought that Commanders were supposed to lead by example.

Do as I say and not as I do is NOT a good example.

I don't restrict them from posting or reading forums, I just no longer prosylatize it to them as I once did.

[RogueLeader]

Look at military recruiters. How many times have you ever seen a recruiter in their office in anything other than blues (or equivalent for other branches)? Not many. The utility uniform isn't meant for that.

All of the Army recruiters that I have ever seen/dealt with were in ACU's.  The AF recruiters were in ABU/BDU/polo's.  The ONLY recruiters I saw in non-utlity uniforms was the Navy or Marines.

To me BDU's/ACU's/ABU's/etc. say to me: we go out and DO stuff.  We don't just sit around and look pretty.  We aren't afraid to get our hands dirty in our tasks.  Blues have their purpose, and the shouldd be worn in equal or better numbers during recruting for a better image; we do, however, need to show that that image is not the only image to see.

[Rotorhead]

To me BDU's/ACU's/ABU's/etc. say to me: we go out and DO stuff. 

That's what they say to YOU.

But to many civilians, they say, "We play war," whether you like it or not.

And parents do not necessarily want their 12- or 13-year-old involved in an organization that "plays war."

[RiverAux]

But to many civilians, they say, "We play war," whether you like it or not.

That is always going to be in the eye of the beholder and there is nothing you can do about that.

Example:
1.  Wear the blues with your ribbons -- "look at that guy with all those ribbons.  Who does he think he is?  Patton?"

2.  Wear the BDUs -- "Who does that guy think he is?  Rambo?". 

You can't win with those who are going to think that way, so don't worry about them.

[hatentx]

At my High School there was a gang that wore BDUs as their gang colors and such thus was the reason for the ban on BDUs for what ever reason.  A little over kill possible but it was the decision that was made.

Most Army recruiters I see now were only ACUs being that it is new(er) and makes them stand out.  I am sure when the Army Blue Class As are in full force that will be the new recruiter uniform.