Wings for aircrews...

[BuckeyeDEJ]

The idea for a badge for UDF probably isn't too far behind either.

Why? Really. Why? Don't we already have too many trivial badges and ribbons?

Scanners, based on existing scanner criteria, should not get wings. If scanners have ARCHER or SDIS specialization, I have NO PROBLEM issuing aircrew member wings. But it's the value of technology training and specialization that makes a scanner wingable.

Being a scanner is to aircrews what earning UDF is to a ground team. It's the first step. If we want to add value to scanners, let's give 'em tracks for ARCHER and SDIS, and make those technologies more readily available to rank-and-file CAP aviators.

Does that make sense?

[Eclipse]

Being a scanner is to aircrews what earning UDF is to a ground team.

Exactly, a full, respected rating, important in the framework of CAP, and not necessarily a first step to anything.

[SJFedor]

Pilot drives the plane.
Observers run the mission.
Scanners do the heavy lifting or looking and/or absorbing the light they see and bringing it back to show others.

Mostly true. Except that, in a visual search, the observer is fully responsible for being the eyes out the right side of the aircraft. Some MO's forget that and are too busy playing with things in the cockpit, when their primary responsibility is that of a visual search.

I have no issue with an MO setting up the GPS for the search, getting radios and all configured, but once we hit that IP lining up with the search, they stop what they're doing and get their eyes outside.

Honestly, why don't we just get rid of the MS qualification altogether and just mesh MS and MO together to make one big qualification? And rename MO to something like SAR/DR Aircrew or something like that.

Hold on, lemme get my nomex on....

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Being a scanner is to aircrews what earning UDF is to a ground team.

Exactly, a full, respected rating, important in the framework of CAP, and not necessarily a first step to anything.

Isn't UDF the first step into ground team? Or did I miss something along the way? Heck, I don't even remember when UDF was formulated. Everyone was "ground team."

If we do scanner wings for just achieving "scanner," then there should be a UDF badge, I guess. But I don't see a need for EITHER.

[lordmonar]

Let's face it....by definition a Scanner is just a trainee position.  It is no really inteneded for someone to get an MS rating and then just stay there forever (yes people do....and they do a good job....but it was not intended for that).

Give

me

a

break

Please go ahead and cite this as anything but GOB opinion, belittling non-pilots...

I'm not a pilot...and I am not belittling anyone.....but if it was considered a "career" specialty...then it would already have wings.

[lordmonar]

^ You are correct.  However, I was thinking about lumping everyone not a pilot into the "aircrew" category.  Archer, SDIS etc, etc, etc etc. 

Are those not just fancy observers?

They are just add-on technologies for the MO specialties.

[SJFedor]

Yeah, and for some reason I thought MO was a pre-req for ARCHER qualification anyway. For the NESA ARCHER TRAC operator school it's a pre-req to not only have MO, but to have at least 25 training or actual sorties as an MO.

[SilverEagle2]

They want you to be at least MS for ARCHER. That is what I was when I went to class.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

They want you to be at least MS for ARCHER. That is what I was when I went to class.

And an MS with ARCHER should be a rated aircrew member. An MS without special training should not.

[lordmonar]

Well then how about this then.....

Do away with the observer rating as is.....make the scanner the basic aircrew rateing and just hang a bunch of add-ons to it.

MS (basic qualification)
MS-O (right seat qualified)
MS-A (Archer)
MS-S (SDIS)
MS-P (Photo)

If you get them all you would be an MS-OASP or some such.

You get your wings when you finish your basic MS qualifications.

[Eclipse]

Isn't UDF the first step into ground team?

No, if you look at the SQTR you will see it is a rating unto itself, combing parts of GT and GTL curriculum because the 2-man teams need to operate autonomously in urban environments.

It is not mini-, or pre-, GT.

Its UDF.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Isn't UDF the first step into ground team?

No, if you look at the SQTR you will see it is a rating unto itself, combing parts of GT and GTL curriculum because the 2-man teams need to operate autonomously in urban environments.

It is not mini-, or pre-, GT.

Its UDF.

Roger that. When I was doing the ground-pounding, there was no UDF rating. There were GTMs and GTLs, and there weren't three levels of GTMs.

I guess if you are UDF, maybe you should wear the GT badge, since you're doing a combination of GTM and GTL tasks. Unless that's the way it is already. UDF team members are ground team members of a different feather. Right?

[IceNine]

UDF is for Ramp checks, inner city searches, and they shouldn't get much off the pavement. 

It is primarily designed for electronic searches.

[Eclipse]

I guess if you are UDF, maybe you should wear the GT badge, since you're doing a combination of GTM and GTL tasks. Unless that's the way it is already. UDF team members are ground team members of a different feather. Right?

No - GTM is a different animal, and includes more emphasis on survival and working away from urban resources, while alot of times they are sent to do urban searches, they carry the gear to allow them to survive overnight at a minimum if necessary.

UDF teams stay on hard pavement and by design should not be far from a telephone and a Denny's.

I fully recognize that UDF is not the same animal and not as "hard core" as GT in terms of skillz, but its also not just a precursor to GT,

[MIKE]

CAP Talk... More drifting than a Tokyo speedway.