First Sergeant Diamonds

[AvroArrow]

alright. Thanks, guys

But... what is KB

[AlphaSigOU]

alright. Thanks, guys

But... what is KB

KnowledgeBase.

[SarDragon]

alright. Thanks, guys

But... what is KB

The Knowledgebase.

[Cecil DP]

so... what's the point of the diamond if no one can wear it...

First Sergeant is a "Position" not a grade. Therefore a cadet who is not a MAster Sergeant or above can be appointed to the position and allowed to wear the diamond.

[IceNine]

^ First Sergeant is a Position, that requires certain Grade to be appointed.

The quote is above so I  need not repost it

[DC]

It is a common held belief that a cadet's rank does not limit them to certain positions. In most cases this is true, but 52-16 is very clear, the position is limited to Cadet Senior NCOs.

There is no argument against 52-16 unless you can find a regulation that says otherwise, dated more recently than the latest version of 52-16.

Personally I disagree with this, but you cannot argue with a crystal clear regualtion. Next time 52-16 is up for review (probably next month, they haven't changed anything in a few weeks.  ) it can be brought up.

But, if you don't have a cadet of suitable grade to fill the position, you probably don't need it.

[hatentx]

It is a common held belief that a cadet's rank does not limit them to certain positions. In most cases this is true, but 52-16 is very clear, the position is limited to Cadet Senior NCOs.

There is no argument against 52-16 unless you can find a regulation that says otherwise, dated more recently than the latest version of 52-16.

Personally I disagree with this, but you cannot argue with a crystal clear regualtion. Next time 52-16 is up for review (probably next month, they haven't changed anything in a few weeks.  ) it can be brought up.

But, if you don't have a cadet of suitable grade to fill the position, you probably don't need it.

Possible but I know in my SQD our Cadet 1SG is a Chief and working on her Mitchell.  Now if she were to be promoted and the next NCO rank we have is a C/Tech then he would "fill" that position although not having the diamond or the title.  We would still have the need for one but would just be more officer heavy than we were.  What would be the remedy for this situation.  Would or c/ Tech  be considers a SEA (Sr. Enlisted Adviser) being that the 1SG is not allowed due to his grade?

[IceNine]

So have the current First Sergeant continue their duties until there is a suitable SNCO

[hatentx]

So she as a cadet officer would have to do a cadet enlisted Job when she could be placed other places and further her cadet PD?

[JayT]

Or just don't have a First Sergeant.

It shouldn't be that important of a position that it's absolutely critical to have.

[hatentx]

In my SQD we actually work the hell out of the 1SG.  She gets in and gets everything going. Conducts Uniform Inspections, responsible for training of basic drill and military C&C.  She is also responsible for making sure the cadets are given the heads up on uniforms for the meetings and upcoming events.  That may be a bit of my fault coming from AD and expecting the 1SG to be responsible for most of that and when something is not to standard I let her know so it can be fixed.  It may just be out SQD though and not as important of a job in others.

[JayT]

In my SQD we actually work the hell out of the 1SG.  She gets in and gets everything going. Conducts Uniform Inspections, responsible for training of basic drill and military C&C.  She is also responsible for making sure the cadets are given the heads up on uniforms for the meetings and upcoming events.  That may be a bit of my fault coming from AD and expecting the 1SG to be responsible for most of that and when something is not to standard I let her know so it can be fixed.  It may just be out SQD though and not as important of a job in others.

The biggest problem is see with a lot of squadrons and activties is that the First Sergeant is treated as the most important cadet at the activity, above the other staff (IE, Flight Sergeants and Flight Commanders)

I agree that that a First Sergeant should be worked, but he/she really isn't in the Chain of Command, so I think we do our cadets a disservice by teaching them incorrectly that they are.

[hatentx]

As the SR NCO of the SQD she would be responsible for all the training and such when it comes to that.  She is responsible for making sure that her subordinates are doing correctly.  She is in the proses of training a new Flight SGT so she is over his shoulder most of the time.  She also insures that her NCO Support is correct that way they are doing correct as well.  In the RM it would work almost the same way.  The 1SG may not be the most important position in the SQD but the 1SG should be important when it comes to training and issue of the cadet enlisted.  We try to mimic the RM as much as possible in that aspect. 

Again that may be some of my doing as I go to her when I see things that are needing attention other than the simple things I can do an on the spot correction.  If she was not around I would go to the flight SGT but being that he is VERY NEW and just made cadet tech he has enough on his plate thus far. 

[arajca]

What about going through the chain of command? My practice, supported by the sqdn commander is to inform the cadet commander and let the cadet chain deal with it, unless it's a minor issue i.e. ribbons backwards, etc. If it's a major issue and cannot wait, we deal with it, then inform the cadet commander.

[hatentx]

Our Cadet commander is AWOL... okay not really but he has been gone due to summer schedule and visitation and such.  The other cadet Officer has been out ES officer up until when ever I can get back into the swing of things.  He is also the only SET we had so he is more often than not teaching something to someone.  So to the 1SG so that the Cadets are handling everything.  I see it as the 1SG responsibilities to ensure training as the Cadet Commander would deal with the running of the Cadet program. 

You know I see your point and I am going to have to ask the DCC how she wants everything to run.  I havent seen her for a while either between both of our schedules.

[JayT]

Our Cadet commander is AWOL... okay not really but he has been gone due to summer schedule and visitation and such.  The other cadet Officer has been out ES officer up until when ever I can get back into the swing of things.  He is also the only SET we had so he is more often than not teaching something to someone.  So to the 1SG so that the Cadets are handling everything.  I see it as the 1SG responsibilities to ensure training as the Cadet Commander would deal with the running of the Cadet program. 

You know I see your point and I am going to have to ask the DCC how she wants everything to run.  I havent seen her for a while either between both of our schedules.

So then make the First Sergeant the C/CC....

[hatentx]

Yeah well now that school is starting again the c/ Maj is back and the c/ 1LT (the SET) is around as well.  Who knows by time I get back with my school and field problems there will be brand new cadets anyways with my luck.  Just when I started to learn there names. lol

[DC]

Why not just get the C/TSgt to promote? Maybe convince the C/CMSgt to hold off on the Mitchell for a month or two, and train the C/TSgt into the position, then promote them both, and give the new C/MSgt the diamonds.

If, for whatever reason the C/TSgt cannot promote, them make them the Cadet Deputy Commander, and have them do the 1stSgt job.

[lordmonar]

Why not just get the C/TSgt to promote? Maybe convince the C/CMSgt to hold off on the Mitchell for a month or two, and train the C/TSgt into the position, then promote them both, and give the new C/MSgt the diamonds.

If, for whatever reason the C/TSgt cannot promote, them make them the Cadet Deputy Commander, and have them do the 1stSgt job.

Good idea on the first one....absolutly not on the second on.

Here's and idea....let's just ignore 52-16 on this particular issue.

If you need a first sergeant apoint someon to the job regardless of rank.......if you got the diamons let them wear them (dispite 39-1).

I know it is a radical idea......but sometiems we just have to say ...this reg is stupid and move on.

Flame on!

[hatentx]

Waiting for the Uniform Nazi's...........


I dont see it as a huge deal if the c/TSGT holds the position and doenst wear the Diamond.  I think I was just  feeling froggy the other night and wanted something to entertain me.  lol  Sorry