State Adjutant General Awards KSWG a Ribbon

[JohnKachenmeister]

I suppose some states could appoint an unqualified officer as the TAG, but I have never heard of any doing so.  I think it is a law that the TAG must be a federally recognized LTC as a minimum, and eligible for promotion to COL.  A state can (and MD did, evidently) add a star on the Governor's authority, but that means that the MD TAG is still a federally-recognized MG.

[Cecil DP]

I suppose some states could appoint an unqualified officer as the TAG, but I have never heard of any doing so.  I think it is a law that the TAG must be a federally recognized LTC as a minimum, and eligible for promotion to COL.  A state can (and MD did, evidently) add a star on the Governor's authority, but that means that the MD TAG is still a federally-recognized MG.

Excerpt from the SC statutes
SECTION 25-1-320. Adjutant General; election and term; chief of staff; salary. [SC ST SEC 25-1-320]

There shall be an Adjutant General elected by the qualified electors of this State at the same time and in the same manner and for the same term of office as other State officials. His rank shall be that of major-general. He shall hold office until his successor is elected and qualifies. He shall be ex officio chief of staff. He shall receive such annual salary as may be provided by the General Assembly.

In other words anyone can run and be the AG in South Carolina.

[DNall]

^ It's the same uniform. He'd just have to ditch the third star if called to federal active duty for over 180 days (may be 120, I don't recall off hand). There are no different qualifications between one & four stars, it's about slots, congressional confirmation, and retirement.

That award by the way is a federal civilian award generally given to civil service employees. It may be worn on a military uniform if awarded for civilian service while also serving in the military. It may not be worn if you got it then later joined the military. It's worn after all military awards.

[ddelaney103]

That award by the way is a federal civilian award generally given to civil service employees. It may be worn on a military uniform if awarded for civilian service while also serving in the military. It may not be worn if you got it then later joined the military. It's worn after all military awards.

In the AF it has to be awarded for military service to wear it on the uniorm.  The rule is mainly for Airmen working at civilian agencies such as CIA and NASA.  DA would be expected to pony up a ArComm or AAM.

[DNall]

Okay, point being if you are not in the military in addition to CAP, then you can't wear fed civilian awards on the CAP uniform, because they would not be authorized on the AF uniform.

If you are in the guard or something in addition to CAP then I guess you could debate if CAP service could be defined at mil service for the purpose of that wear rule. I don't know the answer to that. I'm sure you could get it added to your 2-1 & 214 so you could wear it though.

Speaking of ARCOM, I got one of those about to get approved, and I'm kinda happy about it, even though I won't be around to get it.

[Hawk200]

Speaking of ARCOM, I got one of those about to get approved, and I'm kinda happy about it, even though I won't be around to get it.

School? Or sandbox?  .

The Air Force only required the Good Conduct medal to be formally awarded, but all other medals didn't have that requirement. I don't remember if there was anything similar for the Army. Haven't had time to look it up.

[DNall]

school. AOCS in AL all summer. Rucker next, then sandbox. All in pretty quick succession. Pretty much just 2.5 years on active duty.

[mikeylikey]

Speaking of ARCOM, I got one of those about to get approved, and I'm kinda happy about it, even though I won't be around to get it.

Congrats......

Anyway, I think this whole issue is silly.  CAP needs to allow any and all Awards from State, Federal, tribal and foreign organizations.  We need to recognize our people and that is a simple way of doing it.  As far as debating why we can't wear something, lets focus on who to [censored] at so that we can wear it. 

[DNall]

Thanks 

It does get silly fast, but the rules themselves are pretty simple. If you transfered over from another service to AD AF, could you wear it on AF uniform or not. If not, then it can't be worn on CAP uniform. Simple as that.

Couple exceptions are other service aviation badges. Pilot wings from another service would convert to AF pilot wings, but that can't happen in CAP, so they are specifically auth on CAP. Likewise, marksman badges & the like would convert to AF ribbon, which can't happen for CAP, but the badges are not auth. Some weird CAP rules about other service badges as well - CIB, CAB, CMB, etc that would not be auth on AF uniform, but are allowed in CAP under a grandfather from the old AF reg that got expanded with the new Army badges.

I'm sure I can add a few more layers of complicated for ya if you're really interested. Obviously this is something that needs some work. I'm not sure if wide open everything is the way to go. AF prob needs to be consulted in some capacity on this.

[mikeylikey]

^ See this is the problem we have.  Half the CAP group wants to "play AF", while the other half want to "Play Corporate".  Corporate side says, sure wear whatever on your Corporate uniform, AF sides says, "lets follow USAF lead".  Even then, the AF side of the house still does not follow AF lead.

Face it, CAP is not the AF.  We are so off from being AF it is not funny.  Me personally, I would love to see USAF take over CAP full-time, replace the governing bodies and appoint a USAF General to lead us. I would love to be the USAF Auxiliary, Full-Time.  I would love to see the Corporation disappear. 

To tell a CAP member that they can not wear an award presented to them by the National Guard, is insane.  None of us (except some of us.....) are on AD when we put a CAP uniform on.  We are given no rights by USAF that regular Officers are given.  CAP (and I say this again) is no more military than the Boy Scouts.  There is no UCMJ, and we all pay to serve. 

There is a group that wants everyone to think we are semi-military.  With that, we should follow the military lead.  OK.....lets follow the lead.  So CAP members can wear any and all ribbons, badges and awards presented by any National Guard, but must remove them if on an AFAM longer than 30 days.  That makes sense right?!?!  Thats how the NG works......you wear your state awards, but must remove them when going on AD for training or extended duty?  Am I so far off base here.  Heck.....

[JoeTomasone]

What is amusing here is the contrast to the thread arguing that we shouldn't wear all of our ribbons because there are too many.   

[davedove]

I've never understood why the AF says it has to have been earned for military service.  The Army only requires that it have been awarded by a federal level agency.

But then, I've always felt that all the services should have the same requirements and restrictions, instead of each one doing it's own thing.

[JayT]

^ See this is the problem we have.  Half the CAP group wants to "play AF", while the other half want to "Play Corporate".  Corporate side says, sure wear whatever on your Corporate uniform, AF sides says, "lets follow USAF lead".  Even then, the AF side of the house still does not follow AF lead.

Face it, CAP is not the AF.  We are so off from being AF it is not funny.  Me personally, I would love to see USAF take over CAP full-time, replace the governing bodies and appoint a USAF General to lead us. I would love to be the USAF Auxiliary, Full-Time.  I would love to see the Corporation disappear. 

To tell a CAP member that they can not wear an award presented to them by the National Guard, is insane.  None of us (except some of us.....) are on AD when we put a CAP uniform on.  We are given no rights by USAF that regular Officers are given.  CAP (and I say this again) is no more military than the Boy Scouts.  There is no UCMJ, and we all pay to serve. 

There is a group that wants everyone to think we are semi-military.  With that, we should follow the military lead.  OK.....lets follow the lead.  So CAP members can wear any and all ribbons, badges and awards presented by any National Guard, but must remove them if on an AFAM longer than 30 days.  That makes sense right?!?!  Thats how the NG works......you wear your state awards, but must remove them when going on AD for training or extended duty?  Am I so far off base here.  Heck.....

There's not two, distinct camps in CAP. There might be two, distinct camps on CAPTalk, but I don't believe this forum is a good representation of our membership.

Yes, there are members who want to 'play' Air Force. They want to be awarded Air Force medals for CAP duties that are completely different. There are guys who want to be able to attend Air Force courses, and have BX access, and want to work directly with Air Force units and pretend to be RM officers.

Yes, there are guys who want to ditch the CP and military style uniforms, and wear nothing but the polo shirt, and pretend that they're some sort of super Search and Rescue Agency that answers to no one, not esepcially those military folks with their saluting and pressed shirts.

However, I'd be willing to say almost everyone in this program is inbetween.

We're not the unpaid Air Force Reserve. We're not the Air National Guard. We're a civilian organization that is part of the Air Force, and preforms missions for both the military and civilian agencies.

Would ditching the corporation and making us part of the Air Force with a GO in charge really change anything? I don't think so. The world is a lot different then it was the last time that happened. There's also a number of law and battle that would have to be changed and fought to get that way.

Are ribbons and badges really *that* important?

[JC004]

...
Are ribbons and badges really *that* important?

[Hawk200]

Would ditching the corporation and making us part of the Air Force with a GO in charge really change anything? I don't think so. The world is a lot different then it was the last time that happened. There's also a number of law and battle that would have to be changed and fought to get that way.

That's the way it used to be. And there was probably far more compliance than we have now.

Just got back from an airshow. Didn't have any real issues other than a cadet that I had to address about cutting his hair, and a senior in the CSU lite wearing CAP cutouts pinned to his blue epaulets. It was kind of nice, not having to worry about how we were representing CAP.

Are ribbons and badges really *that* important?

The ribbons and badges themselves? No, they are not. There's a saying (don't know who said it): "A man won't give you his life, but he will sell it to you for a little piece of fabric". It's about recognition that you won't otherwise receive. For our members it's even more important. It's one of the few ways that you show recognition to a select few that know what it means. Even Civil Air Patrol is a brotherhood of sorts (yes, the ladies of CAP are included).

Ribbons are recognition of accomplishments or a history. Badges are about skills. One reason as to why many would like to see a reduction is because there are a great many CAP awards, and to some they don't carry the same weight as a military decoration. Some feel we have far too many, and it cheapens them all. When's the last time that you saw a CAP member with a dec that had to be rather extensively written to get approved? If you've seen one, then when was the time before that? How many decs do we have that any person could be wearing 10, 12, 15 or even 20 by just biding time?

[JayT]

Would ditching the corporation and making us part of the Air Force with a GO in charge really change anything? I don't think so. The world is a lot different then it was the last time that happened. There's also a number of law and battle that would have to be changed and fought to get that way.

That's the way it used to be. And there was probably far more compliance than we have now.

Just got back from an airshow. Didn't have any real issues other than a cadet that I had to address about cutting his hair, and a senior in the CSU lite wearing CAP cutouts pinned to his blue epaulets. It was kind of nice, not having to worry about how we were representing CAP.

Are ribbons and badges really *that* important?

The ribbons and badges themselves? No, they are not. There's a saying (don't know who said it): "A man won't give you his life, but he will sell it to you for a little piece of fabric". It's about recognition that you won't otherwise receive. For our members it's even more important. It's one of the few ways that you show recognition to a select few that know what it means. Even Civil Air Patrol is a brotherhood of sorts (yes, the ladies of CAP are included).

Ribbons are recognition of accomplishments or a history. Badges are about skills. One reason as to why many would like to see a reduction is because there are a great many CAP awards, and to some they don't carry the same weight as a military decoration. Some feel we have far too many, and it cheapens them all. When's the last time that you saw a CAP member with a dec that had to be rather extensively written to get approved? If you've seen one, then when was the time before that? How many decs do we have that any person could be wearing 10, 12, 15 or even 20 by just biding time?

I think what we really need is more regular military mentoring at the Wing, Group, and Squadron level. I don't mean "Hey, I'm a member of CAP and I just happen to be a recruiter in the ANG..........by the way, have you considered dropping out of college to enlist?" (Really happened to me.) I mean an organized program of military personnal, briefed in CAP and CAP regulations, who drop in a few times a year to CAP units.

On ribbons, I do believe we have to many, but I don't think that supplementing them with ANG/NG or SG or Civilian awards is the solution.

[Hawk200]

... I mean an organized program of military personnal, briefed in CAP and CAP regulations, who drop in a few times a year to CAP units.

Personally, I don't see why we can't make them permanent. A few times a year is enough time for bad habits to form when they aren't there.

On ribbons, I do believe we have to many, but I don't think that supplementing them with ANG/NG or SG or Civilian awards is the solution.

I don't think it's really a case of supplementing, it's just removing odd ball clauses that don't really need to be there in the first place. You can wear a few ROTC ribbons which are awarded from a lower organizational level, but state/Federal/civilian decs are ruled out. Why? ROTC award wear is completely temporary. But it's allowed. It just doesn't make sense.

As far as I'm concerned, if you earned it, wear it. I don't care what it is. "In writing by competent military authority" with the addition of "or civil service equivalent" would be just fine for me. I hate telling people that since it's not Air Force, they can't wear it. Especially if the dec they have takes a lot more for the recognition.

At present, CAP rules for decs are almost as bad as the rules for Fizzbin. (A virtual cigar to anyone who gets it!)

[JayT]

... I mean an organized program of military personnal, briefed in CAP and CAP regulations, who drop in a few times a year to CAP units.

Personally, I don't see why we can't make them permanent. A few times a year is enough time for bad habits to form when they aren't there.

On ribbons, I do believe we have to many, but I don't think that supplementing them with ANG/NG or SG or Civilian awards is the solution.

I don't think it's really a case of supplementing, it's just removing odd ball clauses that don't really need to be there in the first place. You can wear a few ROTC ribbons which are awarded from a lower organizational level, but state/Federal/civilian decs are ruled out. Why? ROTC award wear is completely temporary. But it's allowed. It just doesn't make sense.

As far as I'm concerned, if you earned it, wear it. I don't care what it is. "In writing by competent military authority" with the addition of "or civil service equivalent" would be just fine for me. I hate telling people that since it's not Air Force, they can't wear it. Especially if the dec they have takes a lot more for the recognition.

At present, CAP rules for decs are almost as bad as the rules for Fizzbin. (A virtual cigar to anyone who gets it!)

I just have a fear that there's not enough active duty personnal to have people 'permantly' assgined to CAP. I think for now, the best thing would be people.........with some objectivity.

[JayT]

But, back on topic quickly.

I just fear that if we start opening up to everyone's awards, then we're gonna start looking like a bunch of third word generals.

I think we should follow AF rules. But if we start allowing state awards, what next? Local city awards? County awards? Boy Scout awards?

[mikeylikey]

I think we should follow AF rules.

Dang dude.....wearing NG and State Awards would be following AF rules.  The AF says NG members can wear them, just not on AD (for extended periods or training). 

Don't forget NG wears the AF uniform, with regulatory supplements geared toward them. 

CAP should be no different.  Why do WE have to follow AD AF?  Where is it written that what they do we do?