Ground team uniform

[isuhawkeye]

I've gotten a few PM's on this topic, and I thank the contributers. 

So Far only Colorado, and California have admitted to these uniforms.  Anyone Else?

[RiverAux]

Who needs an approved supplement to do anything anymore?  We already know about a region that has ordered aditional ES qualificaiton requirements to be met without a nationally-approved supplement as specifically required by 60-3. 

Wing Kings still reign supreme!

[isuhawkeye]

I'm not sure what you are talking about, but this is a discussion on Ground team uniforms. 

Did you have something to contribute?

[RiverAux]

It was in reference to an apparent lack of supplements approving uniforms that were being worn...

[_]

Does anyone have additional photos of the CAWG GT uniform?  I'd like to see more of how it looks in use.

[SarDragon]

That's all I have handy. It's pretty simple - BBDU pants, and an orange shirt, with the specified insignia/patches. It's pretty well described in the supplement.

[_]

Yeah I've read through that.  I just like to see how it looks when people put it into practice. 

[SarDragon]

OK, here's another one. The names have been obliterated.

[Dragoon]

What always kills me about this kind of BS is that first they claim it's for safety...

..and then they let people keep wearing the old "unsafe" bdu if they don't want to buy the new suit.

Guys, if it's truly for safety, it needs to be MANDATORY, regardless of the price or inconvenience.

If it's not for safety...you don't need to be doing it at all.

[Major Lord]

What always kills me about this kind of BS is that first they claim it's for safety...

..and then they let people keep wearing the old "unsafe" bdu if they don't want to buy the new suit.

Guys, if it's truly for safety, it needs to be MANDATORY, regardless of the price or inconvenience.

If it's not for safety...you don't need to be doing it at all.

I can't remember how often I have heard the phrase "Safety is our mission" or various iterations of this thought. I always thought our primary mission on a Ground Team was to act in defense of the lives of others, a mission to which, a certain amount of risk is attendant. There is nothing safe about going out in the woods, generally in bad weather and without a lot of pre-prep and planning time. Safety is not our mission: Our MISSION is our mission! Risk management is part of our culture, one we frankly are not very good at. We violate uniform regulations in the name of safety, but will field 100 y/o ground team members with bad hearts and bad backs. Risk mitigation should be undertaken from prudence, and not knee-jerk over-reactions to non-existant risks. I suspect that our CAWG great-pumpkin ground team uniform is more of an attempt to look like the NASAR qualified and trained Sheriff's SAR teams than a bona-fide attempt at risk management.

Major Lord

[Hawk200]

I suspect that our CAWG great-pumpkin ground team uniform is more of an attempt to look like the NASAR qualified and trained Sheriff's SAR teams than a bona-fide attempt at risk management.

I was wondering if I was the only person that thought that.

I don't know if Cal Wing still does it, but back during the North Ridge quake relief, an "authorized" uniform of an orange T-shirt with the BDU's a la Hawk Mountain used to be allowed. Don't know if it still is or not, just haven't gotten around to looking.

[_]

It looks like a couple people in the photo are part of a sheriff's department team by the look of the patch on their right shoulder.  As was pointed out the sheriff department team all wear a uniform of an orange shirt and bdu type pants.  It's not always a bad thing to work towards falling in line with an organization of civilian teams that are the primary resource and most likely do the job better than us.  Our uniform differentiates us in a major way from civilian teams, especially in CA where the civilian teams all wear the same basic uniform.  The one team, one fight ethos in SAR extends to our inclusion in the rest of the SAR community.  In a place where the whole rest of the SAR community agrees that an idea is a good one we should seriously look at adopting it like CAWG has done in this case.

[Dragoon]

That makes some sense - but again it only works if it is REQUIRED not optional

As long as some guys wear the special suit and others just wear BDUs, the effect of "looking like everyone else" takes a huge hit.

And, of course, we'll never mandate special suits due to cost.  The same reason we don't mandate field jackets with BDUs, and allow any civilian overgarment with corporate utilities. 

[SarDragon]

I suspect that our CAWG great-pumpkin ground team uniform is more of an attempt to look like the NASAR qualified and trained Sheriff's SAR teams than a bona-fide attempt at risk management.

I was wondering if I was the only person that thought that.

I don't know if Cal Wing still does it, but back during the North Ridge quake relief, an "authorized" uniform of an orange T-shirt with the BDU's a la Hawk Mountain used to be allowed. Don't know if it still is or not, just haven't gotten around to looking.

What you see in the supplement is what you get. Please keep in mind that the pictures are older than the supplement, so there are differences. This was pointed out in my original post.

It looks like a couple people in the photo are part of a sheriff's department team by the look of the patch on their right shoulder.  As was pointed out the sheriff department team all wear a uniform of an orange shirt and bdu type pants.  It's not always a bad thing to work towards falling in line with an organization of civilian teams that are the primary resource and most likely do the job better than us.  Our uniform differentiates us in a major way from civilian teams, especially in CA where the civilian teams all wear the same basic uniform.  The one team, one fight ethos in SAR extends to our inclusion in the rest of the SAR community.  In a place where the whole rest of the SAR community agrees that an idea is a good one we should seriously look at adopting it like CAWG has done in this case.

As for the patches, the ones on the right shoulder are, IIRC, OES or SARTECH items. None of these folks are LE, they are all CAP.

[_]

They aren't the standard SARTECH patches.  I know the majority of sheriff SAR team members are volunteers.  The patch has a sheriff's star on it so I assumed they were just cross trained.

[JayT]

That makes some sense - but again it only works if it is REQUIRED not optional

As long as some guys wear the special suit and others just wear BDUs, the effect of "looking like everyone else" takes a huge hit.

And, of course, we'll never mandate special suits due to cost.  The same reason we don't mandate field jackets with BDUs, and allow any civilian overgarment with corporate utilities. 

We *do* mandate field jackets with BDUs, unit commanders don't enforce it.

[sardak]

The yellow and blue patches with the star are California OES Search and Rescue patches which the supplement allows.

Orange shirts aren't mandatory and ground team members are allowed to wear BDUs for the same reasons CAP lets aircrews fly in polyester golf shirts and slacks with low quarter shoes instead of mandating nomex flightsuits and boots.

Sheriff's and other SAR teams don't all wear orange.  Many wear green and gray (or similar colors) and some have no specific uniform.

Mike

[PHall]

They aren't the standard SARTECH patches.  I know the majority of sheriff SAR team members are volunteers.  The patch has a sheriff's star on it so I assumed they were just cross trained.

Search and Rescue falls under the Law Enforcement Section of the California Office of Emergency Services.
Which is why the patch has the star on it.

[Dragoon]

We *do* mandate field jackets with BDUs, unit commanders don't enforce it.

Which is the practical equivalent of not mandating it at all.

Tag spacing - MIKE

[JayT]

So rather then a useless 'uniform,' have those members put their money back into the program to buy cadets field jackets. We're all in this together.