If you are too fat for the blues then you are too fat for BDU's!

[RVT]

Seriously? What do you think Senior members are supposed to be doing?  Just aircrew and staff jobs?

I'm saying there is no duty in California that its the best uniform choice for, now that it is effectively out as a ground SAR outfit.  Might be if I was in a cadet or composite unit - but I'm not.

[TCMajor]

Short Field,
        After more than 22-years on active duty in the Army, I can tell you that the General is definitely out of the normal grid for height/weight standards.  What is not known is if there is a medical reason for this.  That is the only way that a soldier/airman can be out of tolerance for an extended period of time.  I can also tell you that, as you stated, height/weight standards and performance on physical readiness test are often mutually exclusive.  I have, on more than one occasion, seen a soldier almost max the PRT but bust H/W and then bust body fat.  Bottom line:  Present a professional appearance in uniform(gets you through first impressions stage), then do your job better than anyone on mission(solidifies the positive impression that was first made).  Uniforms are important, but no one has any use for PX soldiers that just want to look good, but can't do mission to save their butt.  You can and should do both successfully.  It is the mark of a true professional.

[MSgt Van]

This isn't limited to CAP. I had a word with my Liason regarding the appearance of a reserve Capt that visited our unit. Overweight, stuffed into a too-small flight suit (no, he wasn't flying), and cheap KMart (no offense) brown hiking boots.  Unacceptable.

[Eclipse]

Seriously? What do you think Senior members are supposed to be doing?  Just aircrew and staff jobs?

I'm saying there is no duty in California that its the best uniform choice for, now that it is effectively out as a ground SAR outfit.  Might be if I was in a cadet or composite unit - but I'm not.

Why would being in a cadet or composite unit change anything?

[Short Field]

I can also tell you that, as you stated, height/weight standards and performance on physical readiness test are often mutually exclusive.  I have, on more than one occasion, seen a soldier almost max the PRT but bust H/W and then bust body fat.  Bottom line:  Present a professional appearance in uniform(gets you through first impressions stage), then do your job better than anyone on mission(solidifies the positive impression that was first made). 

Based on my 28 years of AF active duty with over half that time spend assigned with other services, I can tell you that H/W and body fat are not a cure for the larger guts people get as they age.  The main concern for a lot of Army and Navy officers was to get their necks to the next 1/2 inch in order to meet the body fat standard. We also don't want to talk about the people who come into the service with a skinny built and minimum muscles and then gain 40 lbs in the gut but still meet the H/W standard despite looking pregnant.   But that is secondary to this discussion.

GaryJSO, the USAF doe not current use H/W or body fat to determine if a person is within standards except for initial training and the accession programs.  If he passes the Air Force Fitness Program test (aerobic (running), body-composition, push-ups, and crunches), then he is within standards.  The only people with opinions that count seem to not have a problem with the General.

[SarDragon]

Seriously? What do you think Senior members are supposed to be doing?  Just aircrew and staff jobs?

I'm saying there is no duty in California that its the best uniform choice for, now that it is effectively out as a ground SAR outfit.  Might be if I was in a cadet or composite unit - but I'm not.

If all your unit does is fly, then that might be true. I wear BDUs any time I'm going to be doing "dirty" tasks, usually comm related stuff.

[Eclipse]

If all your unit does is fly, then that might be true.

If all your unit does is "fly", you're doing it wrong.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

If all your unit does is fly, then that might be true.

If all your unit does is "fly", you're doing it wrong.

:clap: :clap:

[PHall]

If all your unit does is fly, then that might be true.

If all your unit does is "fly", you're doing it wrong.

Flying IS all that unit does.

[Eclipse]

If all your unit does is fly, then that might be true.

If all your unit does is "fly", you're doing it wrong.

Flying IS all that unit does.

Please see above...

[SarDragon]

OK, hypothetical situation here.

Senior squadron. Better than 50% regularly participating. 25% FAA pilots. 10 % CAP pilots. Most non-pilots are MO/MP rated or trainee.

Typical non-meeting participation includes AFM participation, SAREX participation, Cadet O-flights, CD missions. The unit has active in-unit and external AE programs.

What else should the unit be doing besides flying? Inquiring minds really want to know.

[Eclipse]

Mission base staff training, especially in less fun areas like logistics and support.

GT and UDF training.

Professional development to make them better members and help carry some of the weight of the rest of the wing.

SLS/CLC/TLC/UCC/OBC/AEPSM and then serving as staff for those after completing them personally.

Wing conference planning.

Encampment staffing, community relations, blah, blah, blah.

[TCMajor]

well, this thread took an interesting turn.  Back to point.

The only people with opinions that count seem to not have a problem with the General.

Very true, at his level he pretty much only answers to the political suits.  Its up to the CSM to fix him.  Once again the NCOs have to carry the standard..   Eclipse, were you a combat controller?  I started out as a Combat Engineer (sapper), then went to Transportation Corps.  We did a ton of work with AF, and the Navy of course. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The only people with opinions that count seem to not have a problem with the General.

Or else they don't voice those opinions...could have career repercussions, yes?

[Short Field]

The only people with opinions that count seem to not have a problem with the General.

Or else they don't voice those opinions...could have career repercussions, yes?

The General is only beholden to and serves at the pleasure of the CSAF, SAF, SECDEF, and POTUS.  I don't believe any of them have any concerns about career repercussions in removing the General. 

[Hawk200]

The only people with opinions that count seem to not have a problem with the General.

Or else they don't voice those opinions...could have career repercussions, yes?

The General is only beholden to and serves at the pleasure of the CSAF, SAF, SECDEF, and POTUS.  I don't believe any of them have any concerns about career repercussions in removing the General.

He wasn't talking about the general or the various secretaries.

[Short Field]

Then their opinions didn't count.... So why was Cyborg quoting me?  And they both still miss the point that they do not know if the General was out of regs.  All they know is they don't like how he looks in a uniform based on standard that does not exist in the USAF.

[SABRE17]

so i have a small question

i am the supply NCO at my unit, my unit is graced with having (almost literally) a tractor-trailer full of BDU's, recently a new senior member asked me to equip him, he is... large. i havent issued the uniform yet but what should i do?

A) i cant issue these because you are over weight standards
B) issue them and say this might be legal idk?
C) issue them and turn a blind eye


also what about cadets, how do i go about explaining this to them, i dont want anyone to quit or get angry "you called my son fat" phone calls or get repremanded but im a firm believer in making CAP look good in military eyes.

[arajca]

Seniors - Talk to your chain of command.
Cadets - H/W standards do not apply to cadets under 18. 18 and up, they do.

[Hawk200]

So why was Cyborg quoting me?

Read the post just above Cyborg's.

And they both still miss the point that they do not know if the General was out of regs.  All they know is they don't like how he looks in a uniform based on standard that does not exist in the USAF.

There are standards, but the general's results to measure with those standards are most likely not available to this board.