National Board Uniform Changes 2013

[Critical AOA]

Still no explanation as to why wearing camouflage makes any sense.  Did we ever decide who we were hiding from?

No explanation was needed for most members.  Didn't realize there were any members that were confused about our relationship with the U.S. Air Force.

Oh, that would explain the blue golf shirt.

[NIN]

I wasnt around when the pickle suit transition occurred. I was active duty and already had many BDUs and just changed some for CAP. Any chance the Air Force will provide this uniform for the cadets? Without help someone is going to pay.... I think this question will add a few more pages to this!

I know for a fact that at least one ANG wing has been chomping at the bit to give its "excess" ABUs (the turn ins that are still serviceable) to CAP, but of course, couldn't.

We thought the same thing back in 1991: "How are cadets gonna afford BDUs?" (and honestly, the cost difference between fatigues & BDUs was pretty big back then)

Amazingly, people ran right the hell out and got BDUs like *fast*.

I know for a fact that you can get ABUs in great shape on eBay for fairly cheap.  The only thing I've bought new was  the hat ($9).  I got 3 pairs of trousers for $30 and the shirt for $14.

[Hawk200]

The ABU request will cover the entire ABU kit, including all outerwear and accessories, except boots and t-shirts. Per Susie Parker.

I missed something: Which T-shirts are being proposed?

[Archer]

You figure the black boots are just gonna be a phase-in allowable thing or is it just the way it's gonna be until the end of time(our next uniform transition)?

[RogueLeader]

The ABU request will cover the entire ABU kit, including all outerwear and accessories, except boots and t-shirts. Per Susie Parker.

I missed something: Which T-shirts are being proposed?

Same as now, Brown or Black.  I'd say brown.  It's my preference anyways.

YMMV

[kd8gua]

I am about the only person here who is against the switch to navy blue tapes. The switch to those tapes is for ALL field uniforms. I do not feel like shelling out big bucks to buy all new name tapes and insignia for all of my field uniforms. Plus, there is an actual, historical, connection of the ultramarine blue to the Air Force: 1. They wore the same color tapes until 1980 and 2. The USAF colors are ultramarine blue, gold, and white.

Also, I much prefer wing patches to the overseas patch. I just hope that we don't replace the flag with the overseas patch. The last I heard and saw, the reverse flag was going to be phased out and all activity patches currently worn on the left pocket were going to return to the right sleeve. And, to add fuel to the fire, pursuant to CAPR 900-2, the CAP roundel was retired. Seeing as though the overseas patch is the roundel, are we now to believe that we will be forced into a uniform item that is no longer authorized by a different regulation?

I also saw that there was no phase out date for the BDUs, but rather the BDUs would be reclassified as CAP Distinctive, and allowed to be worn in the same manner as the BBDUs (except I want to say grooming standards would still apply, but not weight??), so military badges would need to be removed by a specific date.

Or, DOD could just not authorize CAP to wear ABUs, and we could keep the ultramarine tapes and lose the flag patch authorized by HWSRN.

[NCRblues]

I am about the only person here who is against the switch to navy blue tapes. The switch to those tapes is for ALL field uniforms. I do not feel like shelling out big bucks to buy all new name tapes and insignia for all of my field uniforms. Plus, there is an actual, historical, connection of the ultramarine blue to the Air Force: 1. They wore the same color tapes until 1980 and 2. The USAF colors are ultramarine blue, gold, and white.

Also, I much prefer wing patches to the overseas patch. I just hope that we don't replace the flag with the overseas patch. The last I heard and saw, the reverse flag was going to be phased out and all activity patches currently worn on the left pocket were going to return to the right sleeve. And, to add fuel to the fire, pursuant to CAPR 900-2, the CAP roundel was retired. Seeing as though the overseas patch is the roundel, are we now to believe that we will be forced into a uniform item that is no longer authorized by a different regulation?

I also saw that there was no phase out date for the BDUs, but rather the BDUs would be reclassified as CAP Distinctive, and allowed to be worn in the same manner as the BBDUs (except I want to say grooming standards would still apply, but not weight??), so military badges would need to be removed by a specific date.

Or, DOD could just not authorize CAP to wear ABUs, and we could keep the ultramarine tapes and lose the flag patch authorized by HWSRN.

I'm sorry, where are you getting your information?

I have seen nothing nor heard even a rumor that BDUs would be kept in any fashion...

Just like the pickle suit, it would go away at the end of the phase out date...

[RogueLeader]

Also, I much prefer wing patches to the overseas patch.

It's my guess that they just used the Overseas Patch to show placement on the uniform.  I would seriously doubt that they are abandoning Wing patches for the Overseas Patch.

As all unit overseas are attached directly to NHQ, the Overseas Patch IS their Wing Patch.

As for the colors being Air Force colors; they still are, but they have no place (IMHO) on a utility uniform.

I would prefer to go by AF standards on ABU's: nametape, branch tape, grade, and up to two specialty badges (ie GBD and MO wings.)  Again, less is more, and JMHO.

[vento]

Does anybody know if the ABU is proposed for ALL members? If not, is the BBDU the corporate version or will there be a BABU?  :angel:

[SierraOneThree]

I hope they allow us the wear of the ripstop uniforms, too. Provided they're AF legal ones. I know they have them, they were issuing them to troops in Iraq.

Ripstop ABUs (colloquially termed RABUs) are now available for sale online and in AFB uniform shops.

The rainbow is too much. What would be great is if they would take all the PD badges (safety, ES, comm, etc) and turn them into a specialty/qualification badge to be worn on the left breast, like GT and aircrew ratings. There are essentially 4 or 5 of those right now, so it's easily expandable.

[vento]

I hope they allow us the wear of the ripstop uniforms, too. Provided they're AF legal ones. I know they have them, they were issuing them to troops in Iraq.

Ripstop ABUs (colloquially termed RABUs) are now available for sale online and in AFB uniform shops.

Yeap, the ripstop version (actually many versions) available at www.bdu.com and many other sources.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Also, I much prefer wing patches to the overseas patch.

It's my guess that they just used the Overseas Patch to show placement on the uniform.  I would seriously doubt that they are abandoning Wing patches for the Overseas Patch.

As all unit overseas are attached directly to NHQ, the Overseas Patch IS their Wing Patch.

As for the colors being Air Force colors; they still are, but they have no place (IMHO) on a utility uniform.

I would prefer to go by AF standards on ABU's: nametape, branch tape, grade, and up to two specialty badges (ie GBD and MO wings.)  Again, less is more, and JMHO.

Its on the right shoulder - where we currently wear the flag, not left shoulder. If we are to wear anything there, I prefer the patch to the flag.

[RogueLeader]

Its on the right shoulder - where we currently wear the flag, not left shoulder. If we are to wear anything there, I prefer the patch to the flag.

Right.  If we had to wear patches on our shoulders; I would keep our wing patches on the left, and Special Activity patches on the right shoulder.

[A.Member]

Still no explanation as to why wearing camouflage makes any sense.  Did we ever decide who we were hiding from?

No explanation was needed for most members.  Didn't realize there were any members that were confused about our relationship with the U.S. Air Force.

Oh, that would explain the blue golf shirt.

Yeah, the one with the CAP Seal with the words "United States Air Force Auxiliary"?  If you aren't able to reconcile this simple notion, then you're well beyond any explanation that can be offered up here.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Its on the right shoulder - where we currently wear the flag, not left shoulder. If we are to wear anything there, I prefer the patch to the flag.

Right.  If we had to wear patches on our shoulders; I would keep our wing patches on the left, and Special Activity patches on the right shoulder.

I quite like having my NCSA patch on the left breast pocket. YMMV

[SierraOneThree]

The other option (and one I would prefer) would be to do away with all unit, specialty, and activity patches altogether. Wear nametapes, insignia, and qualification badges and that's it.

[Майор Хаткевич]

The other option (and one I would prefer) would be to do away with all unit, specialty, and activity patches altogether. Wear nametapes, insignia, and qualification badges and that's it.

That's still an options, but I think MOST folks will be against killing off unit patches/NCSA patches.

[SierraOneThree]

Well, only about 10 have to be convinced, and they generally don't wear BDUs anyway.

[SarDragon]

The CAP emblem was retired. The tri-prop and triangle "roundel" design remains a part of the seal, logo, and command emblem. I just looked through some olde versions of 900-2, and there's no reference anywhere to a roundel, so I think that issue is moot.

[NIN]

I am about the only person here who is against the switch to navy blue tapes. The switch to those tapes is for ALL field uniforms. I do not feel like shelling out big bucks to buy all new name tapes and insignia for all of my field uniforms. Plus, there is an actual, historical, connection of the ultramarine blue to the Air Force: 1. They wore the same color tapes until 1980 and 2. The USAF colors are ultramarine blue, gold, and white.

There is a phase in period to account for the switch.  If you have fairly new nametapes and/or uniforms, don't switch until necessary.

CAP tends to use longer phaseout periods (3-4 years) to allow members to get the most use out of recently purchased uniforms (and for Vanguard's stocks to be winnowed down thru attrition rather than buy-back) .  You don't have to switch your BBDUs (if thats what you wear) the day the change becomes effective.

Also, I much prefer wing patches to the overseas patch. I just hope that we don't replace the flag with the overseas patch. The last I heard and saw, the reverse flag was going to be phased out and all activity patches currently worn on the left pocket were going to return to the right sleeve. And, to add fuel to the fire, pursuant to CAPR 900-2, the CAP roundel was retired. Seeing as though the overseas patch is the roundel, are we now to believe that we will be forced into a uniform item that is no longer authorized by a different regulation?

That photo was the first time I saw that patch on that uniform. Nothing I've heard from people in the know mentioned that patch so either a) its a fairly recent change/addition; or b) it was just thrown on the graphic for illustrative purposes.

BTW, thats not a roundel. Thats the "Civil Air Patrol Emblem"  I guess they got rid of that while I was retired and I didn't notice. Drat. I need to fix up the squadron website now, cuz I used a "retired" element.  (thanks for pointing that out, BTW. Learn something new every day!)

I also saw that there was no phase out date for the BDUs, but rather the BDUs would be reclassified as CAP Distinctive, and allowed to be worn in the same manner as the BBDUs (except I want to say grooming standards would still apply, but not weight??), so military badges would need to be removed by a specific date.

Where did you see that?  Thats not something I've heard in the works at all.  Was it part of the briefing package at the Command Council?

Or, DOD could just not authorize CAP to wear ABUs, and we could keep the ultramarine tapes and lose the flag patch authorized by HWSRN.

Honestly, I doubt that will happen.  JROTC is wearing ABUs right now (they fall under the Holm Center but are actually considered a part of the USAF for those purposes), and all it will take for CAP to be authorized is a brief "exception to policy" letter. If the Air Staff requests an exception to policy for CAP from the Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for Logistics and Materiel Readiness Assistant Secretary of Defense for Logistics and Materiel Readiness (apparently they've changed the title in the interim), they'll get it in short order.