Can somebody identify the DF unit used by this cadet?
Looks like a Seimac ProFIND SAR DF.
http://www.cap-es.net/ES%20Electric%20Technology/DF%20Unit%20Gallery.htm (http://www.cap-es.net/ES%20Electric%20Technology/DF%20Unit%20Gallery.htm)
Yes, that's the ProFIND SAR box. Someone around here had one for a while.
Wonder when we'll get this .. ;)
(http://www.ircos.ru/img/csa_1.jpg)http://www.ircos.ru/en/rsk_csa.html (http://www.ircos.ru/en/rsk_csa.html)
Something about that makes me wonder if you're going to get a headache.
Thanks!
Quote from: a2capt on March 07, 2014, 07:19:19 AM
Wonder when we'll get this .. ;)
(http://www.ircos.ru/img/csa_1.jpg)http://www.ircos.ru/en/rsk_csa.html (http://www.ircos.ru/en/rsk_csa.html)
Something about that makes me wonder if you're going to get a headache.
"in Soviet Russia, you not find direction, direction find you!"
(on a lighter note, a guy who I knew who had the totally WRONG idea about SAR joined CAP back in the early 1990s, around the time we had several SAR missions in Michigan that resulted in absolutely no find, and occurred during a period of absolutely horrid weather that had ground teams poking around in lots of ground fog with zero air cover. This guy bought an old Suburban to use as a SAR team vehicle, and he bought a marine radar unit to mount on top with the reasoning that "we should be able to spot metal in the woods with this.." I applaud the original thinking, but as a GTL, there was *no* way I was going to show up to a mission base with a radar unit attached to the top of the vehicle. We'd get laughed out of town)
Quote from: rugger1869 on March 07, 2014, 07:09:49 AM
Looks like a Seimac ProFIND SAR DF.
AKA the "NoFIND"... ;D
We call it the cheese block, & it's almost as useful... I did a comparison test between it and a Little Lper, the cheese block was off by about 30 degrees at less than 100 yards. (and yes I know how to use them both)
Quote from: JoeTomasone on March 07, 2014, 12:33:31 PM
Quote from: rugger1869 on March 07, 2014, 07:09:49 AM
Looks like a Seimac ProFIND SAR DF.
AKA the "NoFIND"... ;D
+1 100% junk, even the beacon it comes with is junk.
QuoteWe call it the cheese block
Everyone I know in the DF world uses "cheese block" in reference to the L-Tronics LL-16 (the elongated orange digital replacement for the "blue box," shown in this link). (http://www.ltronics.com/LL-16_Opened.jpg) What's pictured is, as stated along with its codenames, the Seimac Pro-Find.
Mike
i've seen ham club guys do it with a coat hanger on the end of a broomstick...
just sayin.
The only time I ever saw one of these in use was at a SAREX. I found the beacon by body shadowing with a Radio Shack JetStream receiver in less half the time it took with the "No Find". He never showed up with it again.
Quote from: sardak on March 07, 2014, 10:12:38 PM
QuoteWe call it the cheese block
Everyone I know in the DF world uses "cheese block" in reference to the L-Tronics LL-16 (the elongated orange digital replacement for the "blue box," shown in this link). (http://www.ltronics.com/LL-16_Opened.jpg) What's pictured is, as stated along with its codenames, the Seimac Pro-Find.
Mike
As resident cheesehead, I concur.
Quote from: SarDragon on March 08, 2014, 06:35:54 AM
The only time I ever saw one of these in use was at a SAREX. I found the beacon by body shadowing with a Radio Shack JetStream receiver in less half the time it took with the "No Find". He never showed up with it again.
We have one (that I know of) in FLWG. It was soundly thrashed by the Sniffer in multiple rounds. :)
I'm glad so many of you posted about the quality of the Cheeseblock. I've only ever used the old school Little L'pers and wondered how newer units performed against them. Is the Little L'per still pretty much the best out there or is there a newer model that is just as good?
I would rank the various options out there thusly:
1. Sniffer (far and away the best)
2. New (yellow cheese block) L-Per
3. Old L-Per
4. Tie between the NoFIND and the Tracker for "worst in class".
QuoteI would rank the various options out there thusly:
1. Sniffer (far and away the best)
2. New (yellow cheese block) L-Per
3. Old L-Per
4. Tie between the NoFIND and the Tracker for "worst in class".
And there is a significant gap, measured in orders of magnitude, between #3 and #4. I know some very experienced DFers that rate the old blue box L-Per higher than the new yellow cheese block L-Per.
QuoteIs the Little L'per still pretty much the best out there
Yes.
Quoteor is there a newer model that is just as good?
Joe and some others say the Sniffer works very well. I've only used one once and that was at a class.
Mike
Quote from: sardak on March 08, 2014, 04:21:22 PM
Joe and some others say the Sniffer works very well. I've only used one once and that was at a class.
I would say that virtually everyone I've demonstrated the Sniffer to wouldn't want to hunt with anything else afterwards based on how many made that very statement.
I am (in my spare time - hah!) working on a document that covers how to hunt with it.
The cheese block is way more useful if you learn how to turn down the sensitivity, which many people don't. Otherwise, I've had the cheese block ignore the true signal and point me to a reflection exclusively, while the old lper ignored the reflection and pegged the true signal
Why, even after some others have posted the cheese block is the new L-Per, others still use the cheese block to refer to the No Find?!!!
???
Make your minds up!!!!!!!!
??? ???
Flyer
Quote from: JoeTomasone on March 08, 2014, 03:27:21 PM
I would rank the various options out there thusly:
1. Sniffer (far and away the best)
2. New (yellow cheese block) L-Per
3. Old L-Per
4. Divining rod
5. Feeling "it's probably over there".
6. Tie between the NoFIND and the Tracker for "worst in class".
Added a few more...
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on March 08, 2014, 06:03:44 PM
The cheese block is way more useful if you learn how to turn down the sensitivity, which many people don't. Otherwise, I've had the cheese block ignore the true signal and point me to a reflection exclusively, while the old lper ignored the reflection and pegged the true signal
With the Sniffer, you can
hear reflections and simply ignore them yourself. Much more effective than guessing if the equipment has guessed wrong or not.
Quote from: Eclipse on March 08, 2014, 06:47:21 PM
Quote from: JoeTomasone on March 08, 2014, 03:27:21 PM
I would rank the various options out there thusly:
1. Sniffer (far and away the best)
2. New (yellow cheese block) L-Per
3. Old L-Per
4. Divining rod
5. Feeling "it's probably over there".
6. Tie between the NoFIND and the Tracker for "worst in class".
Added a few more...
:D >:D :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Quote from: JoeTomasone on March 08, 2014, 07:02:23 PM
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on March 08, 2014, 06:03:44 PM
The cheese block is way more useful if you learn how to turn down the sensitivity, which many people don't. Otherwise, I've had the cheese block ignore the true signal and point me to a reflection exclusively, while the old lper ignored the reflection and pegged the true signal
With the Sniffer, you can hear reflections and simply ignore them yourself. Much more effective than guessing if the equipment has guessed wrong or not.
One of the NESA staffers has one but I've never gotten to play with it. I'd like to though, I have yet to see one in my wing.
Quote from: JoeTomasone on March 08, 2014, 04:29:46 PM
I am (in my spare time - hah!) working on a document that covers how to hunt with it.
I can't wait to read what you come up with. Your YouTube video is good but a little too dark in the middle of the night. :angel:
I like to called it the Anemiac. It's .. meh. No bueno.
Akin to tin can and a string vs. a telephone.
I wonder what ever became of Murray's "Tiger Strike", I did that test a few years ago and was favorably impressed.
Quote from: Al Sayre on March 09, 2014, 06:18:34 PM
I wonder what ever became of Murray's "Tiger Strike", I did that test a few years ago and was favorably impressed.
Wasn't the price upwards of $1000? That to me was a big non-starter.
The site is still active: http://www.fsems.com/search.html (http://www.fsems.com/search.html)
Quote from: Al Sayre on March 09, 2014, 06:18:34 PMI wonder what ever became of Murray's "Tiger Strike", I did that test a few years ago and was favorably impressed.
Tiger Strike.. talk about a big dupefest.
That thing was a perfect mix of feature creep, ego freaks, and poor management rolled into one package of shenanigans.
He showed up around the time of the Columbia accident, and had the previous unit, the one that was priced in a similar range as the cheese block, all ready to go.
After several years of BS Piled High and Deeper, a few web site re-designs, several "representatives" come and gone, not to mention product re-designs, I remain convinced there has never been more than a hand full of these things made and everyone got the same buggy decrepit unit for a demo.
It started out that it was going to be priced competitively with the current offerings from L-Tronics and evolved to something that was 2 and a half times more costly, and when you made inquiries along those lines you got slick guilt-trip style marketing BS like, "you need to be using a real tool", "what if that was your mother with Alzheimer's you were tracking, you wouldn't want to do use any old thing.. " .. "We've got many government agencies and military units using this"..
But the web site NEVER had a photo of a real unit.
..and the drawings have changed, yet again, the product looks hardly anything like what was on there just a couple years ago and there are still NO REAL PHOTOS, and no pricing.
Except now you can see where there are depictions of Android tablets being used as the display. But not a real photo of one.
It's fantasyland, with a couple of demo units. Because if you were to believe the rest of his stories, US Customs confiscated them all, and caused so many delays he had to start over. Huh?
Quote from: Eclipse on March 08, 2014, 06:47:21 PM
Quote from: JoeTomasone on March 08, 2014, 03:27:21 PM
I would rank the various options out there thusly:
1. Sniffer (far and away the best)
2. New (yellow cheese block) L-Per
3. Old L-Per
4. Divining rod
5. Feeling "it's probably over there".
6. Tie between the NoFIND and the Tracker for "worst in class".
Added a few more...
Though I don't have extensive mission experience with the new LTronics LL-16 units (I doubt many people do due to our decreasing DF mission), my experience with them at NESA has been outstanding. Over the years I have been involved at NESA (since 1999), I would imagine we have tasked O-0301 and O-0302 with close to 1200 or so members. When we started offering the LL16 three years ago, our "first time" pass rate went through the roof; students simply are faster and more accurate with LL16s. Myself and my Basic school Lead have been very pleased (and quite pleasantly surprised) with the results. In addition, the smaller size is also a big benefit. Though I hate to see the old units disappear (some of my fondest cadet memories involved those old units) the new ones are simply better.
One of our staff members did bring a Sniffer a few years ago, and it was fantastic. I never did care for the Seimac or the Tracker units. They were "OK" for medium distances, but the sensitivity issues that plagued both units hampered close in work.
I had one as a cadet in the late 90s early 00s that I came across at a garage sale. I cannot remember the name brand but it was in a black box with black foam secured by the same type of closure that military cots have (piece of green fabric went into a flat black metal closure and secured into place. It had 121.5 MHz and 205 MHz hookups for antennas. It was a gunmetal gray top with a blue box body. It was a little bigger than the size of a tablet now days and a few inches tall. It had a blue loop antenna, metal telescoping, and a rubber duck. My grandma went through cleaning and gave it away a few years back. It was a pretty good unit and when we used it in conjuction with our LPer to triangulate and we got numerous DF/ELT finds at the Fairbanks and North Pole airports. We even had one at Ft. WainWright. Anyone have any idea what kind of system it might have been?
Quote from: Eclipse on March 08, 2014, 06:47:21 PM
Quote from: JoeTomasone on March 08, 2014, 03:27:21 PM
I would rank the various options out there thusly:
1. Sniffer (far and away the best)
2. New (yellow cheese block) L-Per
3. Old L-Per
4. Divining rod
5. Feeling "it's probably over there".
6. Tie between the NoFIND and the Tracker for "worst in class".
Added a few more...
Quote from: Jaison009 on March 11, 2014, 05:56:33 PM
I had one as a cadet in the late 90s early 00s that I came across at a garage sale. I cannot remember the name brand but it was in a black box with black foam secured by the same type of closure that military cots have (piece of green fabric went into a flat black metal closure and secured into place. It had 121.5 MHz and 205 MHz hookups for antennas. It was a gunmetal gray top with a blue box body. It was a little bigger than the size of a tablet now days and a few inches tall. It had a blue loop antenna, metal telescoping, and a rubber duck. My grandma went through cleaning and gave it away a few years back. It was a pretty good unit and when we used it in conjuction with our LPer to triangulate and we got numerous DF/ELT finds at the Fairbanks and North Pole airports. We even had one at Ft. WainWright. Anyone have any idea what kind of system it might have been?
Quote from: Eclipse on March 08, 2014, 06:47:21 PM
Quote from: JoeTomasone on March 08, 2014, 03:27:21 PM
I would rank the various options out there thusly:
1. Sniffer (far and away the best)
2. New (yellow cheese block) L-Per
...
First, I appreciate the 'ratings'. But I do have a question- is that rating on the
1-which little airplane here at the airport is it ? problem, or
2- I 'm standing at the 'merge'- where to from here ? problem. Because of range issues, I've viewed those as different problems.
I'm asking because I haven't used anything besides old L'per and scanner with body blocking and have had the old L'per hear the target at 5 miles or more (on midwest flatlands) while the scanner first warbled at a 3/4 mile.
We have one of those yellow wheel chocks assigned to our unit along with a good old L-Elper. After attempting several times to give the new gismo a honest chance, it will safely be kept under the seat of the van for a very long time. Give me the old stand-by. One of the good things about the elper was the ability to attach it to an external antenna on the van. By using the sensitivity, you can actually get closer to the target.
If you had ever used the cheese block with 4 vehicle antennas, you certainly would think differently. I once followed the blinking arrows for over 20 miles, despite the air crew trying to send me in the opposite direction. No playing with knobs or listening for subtle changes in volume or signal strength. Just look at the display.
Another time we tracked multiple signals from over 10 miles before stopping to triangulate, and found that we were within a quarter mile. On my best day, I couldn't have done either with an old L-Per in any reasonable amount of time.
I have a lot of fun teaching with the old one. I've got four of them. Even when I've hidden the thing like a meanie .. they still find it. ;)
Quote from: a2capt on June 24, 2014, 01:33:08 AM
I have a lot of fun teaching with the old one. I've got four of them. Even when I've hidden the thing like a meanie .. they still find it. ;)
... but, but, NOBODY in CAP has the same impressive antenna array that you have in one of your L-Per. >:D
The Sniffer was used in a heavy urban environment in San Francisco last week to DF an EPIRB and it was the defining factor in finding the EPIRB.
Love my sniffer... but if someone has a guide on how to use that would be great ;)
Quote from: vento on June 25, 2014, 09:27:47 PM... but, but, NOBODY in CAP has the same impressive antenna array that you have in one of your L-Per. >:D
If the current trend keeps up, someone may indeed have the chance.. ;)