Specialty Track [CP in Particular] / Duty Dates

[TheSkyHornet]

6 months in the NONE rating, or 6 months in the duty position?

According to CAPP 60-11, the service requirement for the Cadet Programs Specialty Track includes serving 6 months in a Cadet Programs Officer duty position.

However, in eServices, when I go to update a member from "NONE" to "Technician," I get a message that reads:
This member has not met the following requirements for this Specialty Track: Must serve a minimum of 6 months in the NONE rating of this track before applying for a TECHNICIAN rating.

CAPR 50-17 does not state that a person must be in the Specialty Track for 6 months before obtaining a Tech Rating.

The member has been in the duty position for 6 months and 14 days (surpassing the 6-month requirement for service). They were added to the Specialty Track only three weeks ago when we realized that the individual was never added to the track after converting from cadet to senior member back in April.

As far as I understand it, the service requirement is met, as are the other requirements between CAPR 50-17 and CAPP 60-11. Is this an eServices interfacing issue (i.e., an incorrect blockade of the rating adjustment module)?

[etodd]

They were added to the Specialty Track only three weeks ago when we realized that the individual was never added to the track ....

When they were added ... isn't that what starts the clock?  Maybe the PDO has the option to "back date" it since they were actually in the position?

[arajca]

It sounds like it is an interface issue. They apparently are working on the assumption that members are properly entered as have a rating of "NONE" when they are assigned to the specialty track.

I suggest submitting a help desk ticket for the issue.

A good solution, which involves a change to the programming, would be to Eservices to check if a member has a rating in the appropriate specialty track when assigned to a duty position and, if not, assign them the "NONE" rating. Obviously, if they already have a rating, leave it intact.

I don't know if Admin or Pers can assign specialty track ratings, but I'm pretty sure PD can't make duty position assignments, so, and this is likely true in many units, better communication and cross checking is needed between Admin/Per and PD.

[Eclipse]

6 months in the NONE rating, or 6 months in the duty position?

6 months formally assigned as either primary or assistant.

"None" is the default for the specialty track when first assigned, it is not connected to duty assignment.

CAPR 50-17 does not state that a person must be in the Specialty Track for 6 months before obtaining a Tech Rating.

No, the respective pamphlets dictate time in service requirements.

In this case that is CAPP 6011, see pages 4, 8, & 61.
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/CAPP_6011_CP_Handbook__Specialty_Tr_0D421DCA3193B.pdf

"Serve 6 months as an assistant staff officer in any CP-related role listed in section 2.2"

The member has been in the duty position for 6 months and 14 days (surpassing the 6-month requirement for service). They were added to the Specialty Track only three weeks ago when we realized that the individual was never added to the track after converting from cadet to senior member back in April.

Did you back-date the assignment?  If not, you need to. 
Specialty tracks are automatically assigned as "none" based on duty assignments, so if this member had been properly assigned
6 months ago, the TIS would be correct.

[TheSkyHornet]

Okay, so it seems like we're all tracking on the same conclusion. So I'm not completely insane (only partially).

So how this came about what that we had two cadets who rolled into senior status. As the CDC, I asked them to be added as Assistant Leadership Officers, and our Personnel team went in and added them.

We had a TLC last weekend, in preparation for TLC, I was going through their OJT requirements for the CP Specialty Track. I went onto both of their profiles and noticed that the one (who switched over a few months after the other) wasn't assigned to the specialty track (since I'm tracking the timelines for the rating, I wanted to mark down the "due dates" for all of their OJT to be completed).

I went in and assigned them both to the Specialty Track, and sent an email reminder to the Personnel and Professional Development teams that they should be added to the Specialty Track upon appointed to a Cadet Programs duty. Commander approved the tracks, and we were good to go.

Now I get the notification that they don't have the time in the track...

In looking at the module, there is no back date option. It only pulls the date that you add them. So if you were to delete them out by accident and went to re-add them, it resets the clock (no fail safe/backup).

Help ticket seems like a reasonable option. I've never actually created one before. Any guess on a timeline (unless the powers that be are roaming the forum and I just happen to luck out  )?

In the grand scheme, it's not a big deal. But my intent was to present the CP Badge at the next opportunity, and I kind of hate telling someone "I'll get that entered for you right away" only to be hit with a "Nope...no you won't."

[Eclipse]

Now I get the notification that they don't have the time in the track...

In looking at the module, there is no back date option. It only pulls the date that you add them. So if you were to delete them out by accident and went to re-add them, it resets the clock (no fail safe/backup).

There is no "time in track" requirement for technician ratings, only Time In Service for the duty assignment.
When they got assigned to the track is irrelevant for technician level.

Added: You can backdate duty assignments, or at least you could the last time I needed to.

[dwb]

You used to be able to backdate the "NONE" rating, now it's hard-coded to the current date. Which means it's imperative for the Personnel and PD officers to coordinate. Otherwise you could end up delaying a Technician rating (and Level II, and a promotion) if you didn't get your records squared away when the member was assigned to a duty.

Auto-enrollment in the track would be a lovely feature, but I'm sure it will die in NHQ/IT's backlog.

As a PD officer, I try to record NONE ratings right after a new member completes their Summary Convo / Plan of Action. Like while I'm logged into eServices recording Summary Convo in LMS, I also do Spec Track. Then at least I'm not the one holding things up months down the line.

[Eclipse]

You used to be able to backdate the "NONE" rating, now it's hard-coded to the current date. Which means it's imperative for the Personnel and PD officers to coordinate. Otherwise you could end up delaying a Technician rating (and Level II, and a promotion) if you didn't get your records squared away when the member was assigned to a duty.

Please cite where the amount of time you were enrolled in the track is relevant to completion.
It's not, in any way.

Even later on, when the requirements are "serve x after attaining Y", when you were first were entered in the track itself, or not, is irrelevant to
when you actually completed the work. 

The "none" tracks are auto assigned when you appoint someone to a respective duty position, but even that is irrelevant
if the member isn't pursing the track.  I've got eight "nones" because of my inability to say "no" when someone needs an "of record"
in a pinch or during a staff shortage. Means nothing, and would be irrelevant if I hit my head and decided I wanted pursue Logisitics.

The only thing that would matter would be the duty assignment postings, which can be backdated, and the Commander's subjective acceptance
of me completing the respective work.

[dwb]

Please cite where the amount of time you were enrolled in the track is relevant to completion.
It's not, in any way.

I hear the words you're saying, but now try to actually record a Technician rating for someone if they haven't already been None for six months. You can't.

I'm not saying it makes sense, I'm saying it's the system we have today.

[Eclipse]

Please cite where the amount of time you were enrolled in the track is relevant to completion.
It's not, in any way.

I hear the words you're saying, but now try to actually record a Technician rating for someone if they haven't already been None for six months. You can't.

I'm not saying it makes sense, I'm saying it's the system we have today.

Fair enough, then that is something broken.

[ßτε]

I believe the commander can backdate the 'none' rating.

[TheSkyHornet]

I believe the commander can backdate the 'none' rating.

Negative. Commander is not able to.

Follow-up:
We submitted a support ticket. The response back was "This was a change requested by NHQ. If you need to backdate a Specialty Track, it would need to be input as a help desk to be funneled to Membership."

Please cite where the amount of time you were enrolled in the track is relevant to completion.
It's not, in any way.

I hear the words you're saying, but now try to actually record a Technician rating for someone if they haven't already been None for six months. You can't.

I'm not saying it makes sense, I'm saying it's the system we have today.

Right, but that's where eServices doesn't match the book. So it sounds like NHQ decided to change eServices but didn't cross-check the change with the standard.


@Eclipse,
Time-in-rating may be a requirement for some Specialty Tracks. For example, the CP Specialty Track requires a person to "Serve 12 months as a Technician-rated staff officer, serving in any CP role listed in section 2.2, with minimal supervision." This would mean that you have to be in the Tech Rating for 12 months, and in the duty position for 12 months.

And the Specialty Track does not "auto-add" based on the duty assignment; maybe for some, but not in this case. I specifically had to go in and add the individuals because they were not enrolled (unless someone knocked them out, which I doubt).

[Eclipse]

@Eclipse,

Yeah, don't do that.

Time-in-rating may be a requirement for some Specialty Tracks. For example, the CP Specialty Track requires a person to "Serve 12 months as a Technician-rated staff officer, serving in any CP role listed in section 2.2, with minimal supervision." This would mean that you have to be in the Tech Rating for 12 months, and in the duty position for 12 months.

Yes, I literally said that above.  It does not apply to entry-level first time tech ratings.

And the Specialty Track does not "auto-add" based on the duty assignment; maybe for some, but not in this case. I specifically had to go in and add the individuals because they were not enrolled (unless someone knocked them out, which I doubt).

It did as late as last year, we discussed it several times here.

While I don't doubt this was an "NHQ Request", it's probably more like somebody misheard, since it serves no
purpose or regulatory requirement, and winds up breaking things.

So much for being Agile.

[TheSkyHornet]

Follow-up:
Issue was resolved. All of our FOs now show correct in eServices. Just approved the Technician Rating for one of them, and he's pretty excited about it.

Thanks for the help, everyone!

(CAP Talk wins again!)