Has CAP become an EMA?????

[flyguy06]

flyguy, we're doing EXACTLY the same sorts of missions we've been doing since CAP was started (with the exception of trying to sink subs).  We have always been geared towards emergency response and I suspect that is why most of our senior members have joined over the years.  They don't join just to be a member of a military auxiliary, they join because of what we do. 

Now, I do agree that the military aspect of CAP is important and I tend to agree that we probably have lost members due to the turn away from the military culture.  But, its not like we're developing a "first responder" culture in its place (whatever that means).

Riveraux,

maybe we just come in contact with differnt people.

The majority of the people in my squadron have no interest in ES. I am the only MP in my unit. Most members in my unit want to help cadets and see them get their pilots license. Two of my members were disappointed when they saw members wearing golf shirts instead of military type uniforms. One member (who is 50 years old) was very gung ho about military customs and curteousies when he joined. He snapped to attention everytime a senior ranking officer came into the room. he has never addressed me by my first name in a CAP setting. (we do in private or ourtside of CAP though)

Another member joined because he never had the cahnce to serve in the military and he saw CAP as a way to rectify that. when he saw the laxness of members, he left.
So yes Riveaux, the people I have come into contact with did not join because of the ES mission,  They joined because of the military aspect of CAP. I joined because of the military aspect of CAP. Not cause I am a wannabe ( I am really in the military) I joined cause I felt comfortable with the members. We had a bond because we liked the same things. Thats why we joined.


A first responder culture means we are attracting people like police officer, EMS types, and firefighter types. We are attracting the retired USAF pilot types anymore. If youlook at most of the posts on this thread somehow the messages relate back to ES> For example I read a thread on here about cadet activities. Almost all the posts were about cadets being on Ground Teams (Thats ES) very few posts about other non ES realted cadet activities. Another example, I read posts on here about flying. Its always tied back to ES flying or DHS flying. Nothing about O rides or proficiency flying. Its mainly about Mission stuff. A thrid example. I read posts about assigning aircarft to squadrons. Its all based on ES and how active the unit is in ES missions. Nothing about maybe they have 15 cadets and 8 want to be pilots. Thats what I mean when I say a first responder culture. Maybe its just the folks onthis board and I dont see the bigger picture.

[LittleIronPilot]

flyguy...I hear ya but I have to give you the "flip side".

I am a former Paratrooper and law-dog. I joined CAP for the ES mission, period. I have one hell of a busy life and I want to contribute to my local community and fellow pilots the best way I can, and for now that is the CAP. I myself do not have kids and really have zero desire to do much with the cadets.

Most of the people I try to get to join tell me "I really do not want to deal with the cadets" and I say "no problem just concentrate on ES". Sure they will HAVE to deal with cadets at some level, but that is minimal to be truthful on the ES side, especially if one is aircrew.

Does this make me "bad" somehow though? I have had other CAP'ers tell me so...and I simply ignore them. We all volunteer for our own reasons, none more important than the other.

[RiverAux]

flyguy, I just don't get what is upsetting you.  Are you wanting CAP members to spend most of their time talking about military customs and courtesies so that the military aspect of the organization is emphasized.

Of course CAP members talk about ES -- its one of the things we do.  That isn't mutually exclusive of having a military culture. 

Do you get mad at Army soldiers who spend a lot of time talking about combat tactics? 

Another member joined because he never had the cahnce to serve in the military and he saw CAP as a way to rectify that. when he saw the laxness of members, he left.

Good riddance.  We're here to get things done not play soldier, which is what this person apparently was interested in.  Although I also prefer a "more military" CAP, it actually isn't necessary in order for us to accomplish our missions.  Quite frankly, the important parts of even the cadet program have nothing to do with the military stuff.  Our charge from Congress is to teach them about aviation. 

I read posts on here about flying. Its always tied back to ES flying or DHS flying. Nothing about O rides or proficiency flying.

Because there is not much interesting to discuss about o-rides or proficiency flying.  Get in the plane, follow the profile, land, go home.  Not very controversial. 

[Rotorhead]

I joined cause I felt comfortable with the members. We had a bond because we liked the same things. Thats why we joined.

In my squadron most--maybe a majority--of our members are former and current AD. Nevertheless, we're a senior squadron.

Your contention that only working with cadets is "military enough" falls flat.

[Short Field]

Good riddance.  We're here to get things done not play soldier

:clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:

[Rotorhead]

I joined cause I felt comfortable with the members. We had a bond because we liked the same things. Thats why we joined.

In my squadron most--maybe a majority--of our members are former and current AD. Nevertheless, we're a senior squadron.

Your contention that only working with cadets is "military enough" falls flat.

I hate when I double-post. Sorry.

While I'm here, though, I'd be curious to know exactly what flyguy wants.

We can't discuss anything ES related?

What do you want to do, flyguy? Drill?

[flyguy06]

flyguy...I hear ya but I have to give you the "flip side".

I am a former Paratrooper and law-dog. I joined CAP for the ES mission, period. I have one hell of a busy life and I want to contribute to my local community and fellow pilots the best way I can, and for now that is the CAP. I myself do not have kids and really have zero desire to do much with the cadets.

Most of the people I try to get to join tell me "I really do not want to deal with the cadets" and I say "no problem just concentrate on ES". Sure they will HAVE to deal with cadets at some level, but that is minimal to be truthful on the ES side, especially if one is aircrew.

Does this make me "bad" somehow though? I have had other CAP'ers tell me so...and I simply ignore them. We all volunteer for our own reasons, none more important than the other.

Whats up?

I am not suggesting you are "bad" because you dont want to work withcadets at all. The reason most of the people youtalk to about CAP are not interested in cadets and are more interested in ES is beacue generally we tend to associate ourselvs withpeople thatare like us or have the same interets as us. So of course all your froends will generally have the same interest as you. just like the people I associate with have the same interest as me. I hang around people thatare communityoriened and like working with youths. I dont hang out with cops or EMS folks. So naturally the people I associate with will like what I like and vice versa.

Again, all i am saying is I need to know the direction we aregoing. Lie yousaid we are a volunteer organization and if we are going away from the direction I volunteered for, I need to know. thats all. All organizations arent for everybody. Things change. missions change.

[flyguy06]

flyguy, I just don't get what is upsetting you.  Are you wanting CAP members to spend most of their time talking about military customs and courtesies so that the military aspect of the organization is emphasized.

Of course CAP members talk about ES -- its one of the things we do.  That isn't mutually exclusive of having a military culture. 

Do you get mad at Army soldiers who spend a lot of time talking about combat tactics? 

Another member joined because he never had the cahnce to serve in the military and he saw CAP as a way to rectify that. when he saw the laxness of members, he left.

Good riddance.  We're here to get things done not play soldier, which is what this person apparently was interested in.  Although I also prefer a "more military" CAP, it actually isn't necessary in order for us to accomplish our missions.  Quite frankly, the important parts of even the cadet program have nothing to do with the military stuff.  Our charge from Congress is to teach them about aviation. 

I read posts on here about flying. Its always tied back to ES flying or DHS flying. Nothing about O rides or proficiency flying.

Because there is not much interesting to discuss about o-rides or proficiency flying.  Get in the plane, follow the profile, land, go home.  Not very controversial.

I am NOT upset about anything. Sorry if it came out that way. I am just trying to get an understanding.

Iwouldnt saygood riddence to anyone. Its a volunteer organization. people have expectations based how it was sold to them. If theyare not met,then they leave. Since in my unit we only have about 5 active members It hurt US pretty hard.

[flyguy06]

Ok, ok. let me be clear. i amnot mad or upset about anything. I was merely trying to get an understanding. The trend  I see inCAP is going away from the reason I joined. So, I wanted to see if others saw the same thig. It looks like they do, so ok. i know how to decide if I want to continue inthis organization. thats all Iwas doing. You can discuss what you want. I dont care. I was just gaging. Thanks.

[Rotorhead]

Again, all i am saying is I need to know the direction we aregoing. Lie yousaid we are a volunteer organization and if we are going away from the direction I volunteered for, I need to know. thats all. All organizations arent for everybody. Things change. missions change.

What direction, specifically, did you volunteer for? So far, all you've said is you want a more "military" organization.

What did you expect to do in such an organization?

[Rotorhead]

I wouldnt say good riddence to anyone. Its a volunteer organization.

I would. If they are expecting something other than what CAP is, the they shouldn't be in the organization. Maybe there's one that fits what they want to do.

CAP is what it is, so if you want to volunteer to be a member, great. If not--that's your choice. As I have said before (and repeatedly) I'd rather have 5 members who want to be here and will help fulfill the mission than 25 who aren't satisfied and want to do something else.

[Eclipse]

I would. If they are expecting something other than what CAP is, the they shouldn't be in the organization. Maybe there's one that fits what they want to do.

CAP is what it is, so if you want to volunteer to be a member, great. If not--that's your choice. As I have said before (and repeatedly) I'd rather have 5 members who want to be here and will help fulfill the mission than 25 who aren't satisfied and want to do something else.

+1 - Far too many people read the brochures, then misinterpret what CAP is and grumble about it until they quit (or worse, don't).  There's lots of volunteer need out there, so there's no reason to expect CAP to walk outside its mission or try and "be all things to all men".

[heliodoc]

We have steered away from those "glitzy" brochures.

They barely reflect reality.  We tell the new prospective members to check it out for a month before even making a decision. 

Brochures......truly lack reality

[heliodoc]

AND where we are from...

We tell them prospects what true EMA's are and what SUPPORT functions CAP contributes to and what CAP's contributions are to said EMA's when requested

We try not get the people confused... CAP ..not a true first responder organization

EMA's ....coordinating function amongst all community players based on LEOP's and coordination with community leaders and assets to include volunteers and paid officials and first response orgs, based on really simple explanations.

Again we don't try to sell what CAP can not truly do

[flyguy06]

Well, guess you'll be saying goodbye to me to then.

I joined CAP when I was 15 years old and have been a financial member ever since. I am in an inner city squadron where most of our members are concerned about our youth and developing them into good productive citizens. I know what the program did  for me. And I believe in it.

[flyguy06]

On second thought I am going to take Riveraux's advice

[wuzafuzz]

Well, guess you'll be saying goodbye to me to then.

I joined CAP when I was 15 years old and have been a financial member ever since. I am in an inner city squadron where most of our members are concerned about our youth and developing them into good productive citizens. I know what the program did  for me. And I believe in it.

CAP can still be that, and more.  Just because there are different avenues to choose from doesn't mean people have to run away.  Every squadron has its own personality, within limits.  I've known people who changed squadrons to find a better fit and it worked well for them.  Find what works for you, but discovering new things about CAP doesn't mean it has changed missions dramatically.

Edited to fix a typo.

[SarDragon]

CAP, at the local unit level, will go in whatever direction the members take it. If they have an ES interest, it will go that way. If there are cadets, it will go that way, and perhaps, but not necessarily, have an added ES flavor. Your unit will go wherever you and the other SMs take it, within the three missions.

CAP, at the national level, will still have the three traditional missions, with some additional work in the DHS area, as the AF sees fit.

[Eclipse]

CAP, at the local unit level, will go in whatever direction the members take it.

...the commander steers it.

If the members are "taking it",  that means the commander is letting it drift (all too common in CAP).

[SarDragon]

I was speaking of the members as a whole. If the rank and file folks don't like where the unit is going, they will either work within the unit to change it, complain to the next higher echelon if justified, or vote with their feet. In any event, the unit will change.