Civil Air Patrol Helicopter

[heliodoc]

CAP and helos and UAV's??

Can CAP master the G1000 and SBT / FITS scenarios yet?

Before CAP can EVEN dream of UAV's....can we MASTER what we have at present?

I know, I know...I'm a fun sucker

But CAP could not even fetch the funding for this  ...Again   how about that HR 1178 project, huh?  where we supposed to get Congress to do study on how "cheap" we are... huh?

CAP andhelos and UAV's?   Who is going to VOLUNTEER their time in this economy for flying an maintaining these ships?

CAP's consolidated MX program??   BWHAHAHAHHA!

[RADIOMAN015]

If UAVs are cost effective and help us get the job done and Congress and USAF want us to fly them from the comfort of mission base, I'm all for it.  Sounds like a new SQTR. 

CAP doesn't teach Senior Members to fly airplanes so why would they teach Senior Members to fly UAVs?

I'm guessing we are YEARS away from having to address such an issue.  In the meantime, take good care of the Cessnas, et al.  But technological changes will only continue to accelerate.  We can either hang on to our buggy whips and steam gauges or we can adapt to what the next generations of aviation advancement will bring.

Although I cannot go into details at this time, there is at least one CAP wing that is considering the UAV potential for SAR work.    I personally think it can be a very good technology that can be easily deployed, even when ceiling are too low for normal cessna aircraft to fly.
RM   

[Short Field]

Although I cannot go into details at this time, there is at least one CAP wing that is considering the UAV potential for SAR work.    I personally think it can be a very good technology that can be easily deployed, even when ceiling are too low for normal cessna aircraft to fly.
RM   

Which UAVs are you talking about?  Predator?  Reaper?    Some guy's RC model airplane with a camera?  "its secret so I can mention it on a public web site but not tell you anything about it...."  duh.   

The USAF is going to give us UAVs instead of the cheap to operate Cessnas we now fly and then try our MPs to fly it?  Do a cost/benefit comparison between our current cost of operations ($135 to $175 an hour) to the cost of a UAV or helicopter.

This tracks with what I think about "thinking outside the box":  http://lateralaction.com/articles/thinking-outside-the-box/ 

[heliodoc]

Hey RM

Those UAV's aren't CAP's yet, are they?  Didn't think so.  Reaper and Predator?

OR are they the RC types UAV's.  Is this more CAP secret squirrel stuff?  ooooohhh. 

Either way, consideration is different than operating, maintaining, and funding.

USAF or the Army giving keys to the CAP?  Really doubtful.  Considering UAV potential in CAP?  Who is giving that away at an hourly rate?

Anyway, "interesting" that one Wing is considering potential....

[JB_407]

Thanks all for contributing to this thread. As I stated in my first post rotary wing is a area near and dear to me. That said the more important point and the point I couldn't recall the numbers for is the diminishing demand for CAP services. Today I located the Wing mission summaries. Five years ago we were flying 200 missions a year roughly. Last year we logged 4. I don't believe that number is correct but the trend is undeniable in our wing. Now you can slice and dice the number anyway you want, Cost/Benefit, $$$/Hr. what ever you like. Fact is that with those kind of numbers somebody is going to be looking to cut the program. At least if money is the driving factor.

I find it hard to buy into the argument that money is the factor. It's not a case of no missions available. RCC is passing these missions along to ANG, USAF, USA, and LE. When you read the logs of these missions they in most cases respond with a C/HC-130 and a UH/HH 60. Certainly nobody counting pennies there. On one mission CAP responded and located a non-distress ELT. They were unable to land so RCC dispatched a UH-60 and crew to silence the ELT. Tell me that a CAP crew in a light single engine helo couldnt have performed that mission at a lower cost. A different mission a uh-60 was tasked to search for a ELT in a semi-populated area. The non-distress ELT was located at the community airport. CAP ground crews silenced the ELT.

As for LE response, there is only one LE in our Wing AO that has airborne assets. There are many instances of AST responding with their helicopter to recover a ambulatory victim. Flying Pig I know you wont like this, but they fly the R-44 and they are getting the job done and at a lower DOC than the DHC-2 we fly. Personally I can think of few things I would rather fly less than piston helicopter, but the fact is that the R-44 is doing the job and its taking missions from the CAP fixed wing assets.

As for the air search/ ground rescue methodology, sure it works in most places. However our wing AO is 663,268 mi^2 and we have 1 mile of road for every 42mi^2 of land area. If ground crews are going to be utilized they are likely inserted by, oh yeah, a helicopter.

Yeah helicopters might not be for every unit. But in units where it makes sense why not?

[Rotorhead]

If UAVs are cost effective and help us get the job done and Congress and USAF want us to fly them from the comfort of mission base, I'm all for it.  Sounds like a new SQTR. 

CAP doesn't teach Senior Members to fly airplanes so why would they teach Senior Members to fly UAVs?

I'm guessing we are YEARS away from having to address such an issue.  In the meantime, take good care of the Cessnas, et al.  But technological changes will only continue to accelerate.  We can either hang on to our buggy whips and steam gauges or we can adapt to what the next generations of aviation advancement will bring.

Although I cannot go into details at this time, there is at least one CAP wing that is considering the UAV potential for SAR work.    I personally think it can be a very good technology that can be easily deployed, even when ceiling are too low for normal cessna aircraft to fly.
RM   

They're gonna have fun dealing with the FAA on that.

[FARRIER]

If you want to see what the Air Force is doing with UAV's, read this:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/usaf/usaf-uas-flight-plan_2009-2047.pdf

Look at page 71, second to last paragraph.

This would work: 

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/01/uav-tarmac.jpg

Seriously, with all this talk about rotary vs. fixed, I'd be happy just to see a CAP airplane.  We airline pilots have a saying, "Helicopter time in your logbook is about as useful as VD in your medical records." 

Blasphemer!!!

I did this just for you, Robert.   Please enjoy.      BWAHHAHAHAHH  !!!!!!

[BillB]

UAV/s would be great for CAP. Cadets would be more experienced in controlling them due to computer games. No need for senior members in SAR operations

[Rotorhead]

UAV/s would be great for CAP. Cadets would be more experienced in controlling them due to computer games. No need for senior members in SAR operations

Again, the FAA does not seem likely to allow UAVs for domestic missions.

[Flying Pig]

JB 407.

Sure there are areas where the R44 would work.  It just wouldnt work where I am. And in the areas where it would work, you might as well just stick with a 182.  Which agency is operating the R44?  I know of a few running around out there.  Merced Sheriff in CA has one, but they only use it for flat land patrol. 

[Rotorhead]

JB 407.

Sure there are areas where the R44 would work.  It just wouldnt work where I am. And in the areas where it would work, you might as well just stick with a 182.  Which agency is operating the R44?  I know of a few running around out there.  Merced Sheriff in CA has one, but they only use it for flat land patrol.

I wouldn't like to fly the Robinsons for SAR here in Colorado, where the cities are at 5000'+ MSL and planes go missing in the mountains at 12,000+ MSL.

Then again, I don't like Robinsons all that much in the first place.

[tdepp]

After we get the helicopters and UAVs I think we'll then get the CAP unicorns dressed not in the corporate dress uniforms but in the USAF-style uniforms .

[C/MSgt Lunsford]

Just curious, with the except of $$$$, Why aren't there  Helicopters used in CAP? 

I don't think Cadets could fly it. Too challenging.

[Major Carrales]

Just curious, with the except of $$$$, Why aren't there  Helicopters used in CAP? 

I don't think Cadets could fly it. Too challenging.

Yes, it seems that CAP tries to get the most "bang for its buck," 172s and 182s lend them self to ES and CP.  Even the Airvans serve dual and tertiary functions hauling personel and archer platforms.  Helicopters and autogyros might have a future if their function could be expanded.

[Flying Pig]

After we get the helicopters and UAVs I think we'll then get the CAP unicorns dressed not in the corporate dress uniforms but in the USAF-style uniforms .

Im already in line for my Form 5 in the space shuttle.

[heliodoc]

^^^

How long is that line presently, Rob?

[MikeD]

After we get the helicopters and UAVs I think we'll then get the CAP unicorns dressed not in the corporate dress uniforms but in the USAF-style uniforms .

Im already in line for my Form 5 in the space shuttle.

Better hurry.  Or is CAP gonna pick those up once NASA retires them?   

I can see, at least in theory, some UAV use for CAP, but I'm thinking of something akin to a Raven-B, Wasp, or other RC scale, definitely not a Reaper.  As of right now they can't legally be operated outside of specific military airspace though, except under AMA RC rules.

[vmstan]

A CAP space shuttle, I can just imagine the field day the ORM and Safety Officers would have with that.

[jimmydeanno]

NASA has plenty of safety officers that do ORM for every mission.  Guess what?  They still managed to put some people on the moon, build a space station, and have many shuttle launches.

[vmstan]

Yeah, but their safety officers have a little bit higher threshold for acceptable risk... strapping people to a seat with liquid nitrogenhydrogen/oxygen and setting it ablaze.

Wrong element.