The Empire Strikes Back: US Ranger Corps, Etc.

[mikeylikey]

By the way, I was at ground zero NYC while the dust was still settling.

Many (but not all) of the people suffering from "burnout" have just found a way to retire early.

If they couldn't handle the job, they should've found a desk somewhere.

The kind of people who "burn out" are usually the "look at me" crowd anyway.  It's just another way for them to illustrate how great their contribution has been -- "I gave everything I had and look how much they took!" and so forth.

I'm guessing there are lots of Ltc's and Headquarters types in here...

You are so off base, it makes me sick. 

[Flying Pig]

CISM has a place here because as a majority, I would say most of our members arent equipped with the tools, nor the resources necessary to deal with trauma. Most of our membes, in their daily lives, probably have nothing to do with EMS or SAR. In that case, they may come across something that they were never equipped or trained to deal with. FOr example, a burned body, someone killed in a plane crash.  These incidents can have images that go beyond even what Hollywood could even imagine.

So again, what do you do in your civilian world that qualifies you to suggest that CISM has no place and is for "sissy's"? 

I will tell you, when I was a young gung ho cop, I didnt need anybodies help, and I wasnt about to ask anyone for help with anything.  My attitude was that if you cant handle it, get a job somewhere else.  11 years later and a lot of growing up, my attitude as just about changed 180 degrees. 


Many (but not all) of the people suffering from "burnout" have just found a way to retire early.

If they couldn't handle the job, they should've found a desk somewhere.

The kind of people who "burn out" are usually the "look at me" crowd anyway.  It's just another way for them to illustrate how great their contribution has been -- "I gave everything I had and look how much they took!" and so forth.

I'm guessing there are lots of Ltc's and Headquarters types in here...



What foundation and experience brought you to this conclusion?  The few people I know who had to retire in this manner werent out looking for attention.  It pretty much ruined their lives long before they were able to retire. 

This issue isnt even about police or EMS.  It is about dealing with CAP members with issues they may not normally be trained to handle, nor have the resources to get help if they need it. 

[Smithsonia]

May I offer a more current idea on the Post Traumatic Stress concept. First of all it is good to know that the word "ignorant" and "ignore" come from the same root for a reason. Ignorant initially did not mean "without knowledge" instead, it meant "someone who did not want to know." It meant an act of Commision, not Omission. It was a person who ignored information, knowledge, or understanding.
My point is: Those that do NOT know sometimes have their own personal reasons. Often it is because, PT Stress for instance, is not a thing that is easily analyzed in the field, or in themselves. So buck-up and proceed is often a good idea -- in the field. The mission must go on. Everyone is scared, exhausted, and bruised -- take it, or forget it. Do your job. Carry-on! Shell Shock, Battle Fatigue, being on high alert, and scared to death can all look the same. All can come and go. All can be uncontrollable. Even the term; Carry-on implies a burden, a load... not just a duty, more than proceed, more than just go. As in, Bear-your-burden, NOT Bare-your-burden.

However, in certain circumstances one can be overtaken by flashbacks. Talk therapy will take care of most of this... sometimes medication is involved. AND, sometimes hospitalization. It can be for reasons that don't seem all that terrible. Often it is a collection of various psychic injuries that pile up and collide in one frightful moment. Sometimes even psychologists who listen to stories of abuse or trauma all day get PTSD... but don't see the trauma it causes to themselves.
I've talked to Medal of Honor Award-ees, War Heroes, Generals, Privates, and even nurses behind the lines that only saw the trauma of battle. I ask... "How often to you think about that battle... or event?" Almost all will say I thought about it an hour ago... dreamed about it last night, or I can't stop thinking about it.
Those that hide their own trauma are more likely to be dismissive of PTSD in others. They are bucking-up.

Those that had to mask it in the field because they were under the "Buck-up" field order don't see that they themselves are close to breaking down, producing injury in their civilian life, or kicking the dog for reasons they don't understand. What is interesting is... once they are separated from the event and the events location -- They are no longer under the "buck-up" order. There is no longer a good reason to remain "ignorant."

There comes a time to NOT Carry-on, to unburden, to unload. You can do it in an orderly progressive manner -- OR by over-drinking, taking drugs, hyperventilating, suicide, or having a heart attack. However, somewhere along the line we all stop "carrying-on." We all unburden. CISM is orderly unburdening. It is just an extension of "I had a tough day and I'd like to tell you about it" taken to the next level. It is human caring.

There are books on the subject. There is new research in the field. There are dedicated professional trying to understand this part of human experience. In our roll as discussion-ers and thinkers -- this is not the place to ignore information. Here is not a place to be ignorant.
With regards;
ED OBRIEN

[Johnny Yuma]

If we were in Iraq with roadside bombs ready to go off without warning or snipers lurking in the shadows waiting to take a shot, CISM would have a more solid foundation in this organization.

To me it just looks like someone with an outside specialty wanted to make a name for themselves in the organization.

I did acknowledge that there may be cases where it is called for, but having it all the time everywhere is like putting on surgical gloves every time you want to shake hands.

I also noticed a strange but common phenomenon in this message thread;

I do not like the way this organization is being turned into a kids club, I oppose the aspects of it that make a CPPT necessary (not the cadet program, but the way they keep tailoring the program to children -- No "Children" in this organization, only Seniors and Cadets).  Now because I voice my opinion some of you are as much as making accusations that could get you removed from the program and open you up to SEVERE civil liability.

This is especially bizarre since I am the one suggesting the organization take steps to maintain its integrity, avoid the appearance of impropriety and maintain high standards so people have something to "shoot" for when they get older and YOU (the people making the accusations) are in favor of cozying up to the "K-5" crowd.

Is this what psychiatrists call "Reaction formation"?

By the way, I was at ground zero NYC while the dust was still settling.

Many (but not all) of the people suffering from "burnout" have just found a way to retire early.

If they couldn't handle the job, they should've found a desk somewhere.

The kind of people who "burn out" are usually the "look at me" crowd anyway.  It's just another way for them to illustrate how great their contribution has been -- "I gave everything I had and look how much they took!" and so forth.

I'm guessing there are lots of Ltc's and Headquarters types in here...

Don't feed the troll...

[MIKE]

I'm calling this one. CISM etc is OT.