Salutations...

[Stonewall]

If you have passed your CAP form 5 check, and you are wearing wings, don't worry about other ranks.  Being a pilot trumps rank, all lesser, non-flying, officers have to salute you.

Except for those sporting jump wings.  Although rare in CAP, if you should see such a person, you shall open doors, retrieve drinks, and press their uniform.  Although not a pilot, per se, they are skilled in flight with nothing but a bunch of silk, some string and a slight breeze.

[O-Rex]

Simple rule:

If you wear the costume, you play the part.

[davedove]

...and CAPP 151 is hardly clear on the subject.

In section 1, it makes a disticntion between what CAP members do toward the flag on the basis of whether they are in "military style uniform" or "any other CAP uniform". In section 2 however saluting is exchanged between CAP members when in military style uniform. Does this include CAP style BBDUs? Section 2 b (1) says we salute when in military-style uniform. Again, BBDUs?

Back when the pamphlet was written the Field Uniform (BBDU) didn't exist... And the CAP Distinctive Uniforms (Blazer and Aviator Shirt with blazer nametag) weren't the qusi-military style uniforms we have today in the Corporate Uniform (TPU) Field and Utility Uniforms).

I wish it stayed that way.... That the CAP Distinctive Uniforms were not "military style uniforms" and C&C wasn't rendered... because they were more or less civilian clothes... but that would discriminatory, and we can't have that.  

I'll admit that the newer CAP distinctive uniforms do cloud the issue, and that may be why the 39-1 says "Air Force style" instead of "military style."

^Really...because I'd consider any uniform in which you could display grade insignia to be a military style uniform.

To say that the TPU is not "military style" is absurd.  "I want to wear ribbons and metal grade insignia, but C&C do not apply to me...hardly.

The only uniforms we have that I would not consider "military style" are the polo and golf shirts.

It seems to me that I saw somewhere that members were required to render military courtesies while in the new corporate uniform.  I can't seem to find a reference though.

[MIKE]

It was in one of the ICLs IIRC.

Edit: 20 Nov 06 CAP/CC Letter, Change to CAPM 39-1, CAP Uniforms

[davedove]

It was in one of the ICLs IIRC.

Edit: 20 Nov 06 CAP/CC Letter, Change to CAPM 39-1, CAP Uniforms

That's the one.  From the text:

The recent NEC clarified the policy concerning
customs and courtesies when wearing this uniform. Members wearing the Corporate
Service Coat or the white aviator shirt and blue pants/skirt combination should observe
the same customs and courtesies as members wearing the Air Force-style uniform.
Members will stand at attention for the National Anthem and the presentation of the
colors and will salute superior officers as necessary.

Since this states that the corporate uniform is treated like the Air Force-style uniforms as far as customs and courtesies, that would imply to me that the other CAP distinctive uniforms are not treated the same.

[JohnKachenmeister]

If you have passed your CAP form 5 check, and you are wearing wings, don't worry about other ranks.  Being a pilot trumps rank, all lesser, non-flying, officers have to salute you.

Except for those sporting jump wings.  Although rare in CAP, if you should see such a person, you shall open doors, retrieve drinks, and press their uniform.  Although not a pilot, per se, they are skilled in flight with nothing but a bunch of silk, some string and a slight breeze.

Were it not for pilots, jump wings would be a meaningless apputenance.  Plus pilot are endowed with magical powers enabling them to convert a graceful flying machine into a less-than-graceful ground conveyance, and vice-versa.  It is to them that the secret of finding loopholes in the Law of Gravity is quietly imparted.

Pilots know the loopholes in the Law of Gravity.  Paratroopers are only able to obtain a continuance.

[Fifinella]

Were it not for pilots, jump wings would be a meaningless apputenance.

Oh, but what about BASE jumping?  Don't need a plane for that! 

Pilots know the loopholes in the Law of Gravity.  Paratroopers are only able to obtain a continuance.

Conceeded.  But freefall is still the closest to flying mankind has found to date.  Just your body and the air.

[RogueLeader]

^ still, only a continuance.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Were it not for pilots, jump wings would be a meaningless apputenance.

Oh, but what about BASE jumping?  Don't need a plane for that! 

Pilots know the loopholes in the Law of Gravity.  Paratroopers are only able to obtain a continuance.

Conceeded.  But freefall is still the closest to flying mankind has found to date.  Just your body and the air.

Nobody gets jump wings for base jumping.  Invading a valley when you already hold the high ground and bridges is a job for the "Legs."

[JohnKachenmeister]

When I was a young soldier I used to join in the taunt to airborne guys tht "Nobody in their right mind would jump out of a perfectly good airplane."

Later, I learned a hard-but-true Fact of Military Life:

The C-130 is NOT a "Perfectly good airplane."

[sandman]

Simple rule:

If you wear the costume, you play the part.

Well said.

Folks, here's the down and dirty....Whip out that salute to officers of higher rank than you wear; smartly return the salute offered to you from officers junior to you and enlisted military...then go on about your business.

All the concerns and moaning I hear from this site about saluting when approaching real military or real military cadets should be put to rest....just do it and move on.....no need to "educate" the real military or real cadets about not needing to salute a CAP officer...

The problem only comes from those CAP members who demand a salute from the real military or a cadet, or worse yet, attempt to give an order, haze, or just outright show disrespect.....

Those members who go trolling for salutes need to be quickly re-educated about the history and privilage of saluting and then tell them to cut it out or kick them out for conduct unbecoming....worse case is that such a member can be arrested for impersonating an officer.

I'm sure many of you have met members like that....they might even be real military members themselves with a chip on their shoulder (worse, a butter bar on their collar).

Recruiting members into CAP is important. Education regarding military C&C is even more important (by the way, this is where your NCO's are best used).

Again, smartly return the salute and carry on. You'll improve the perception of CAP greatly....

/r
LT

[brasda91]

^Really...because I'd consider any uniform in which you could display grade insignia to be a military style uniform.

To say that the TPU is not "military style" is absurd.  The only uniforms we have that I would not consider "military style" are the polo and golf shirts.

I agree.

[brasda91]

If you saw your BN Commander, Company Commander, or any other officer you knew was an officer, you rendered a salute.  Some units have specific saying that are said when saluting, like "All the way" and the officer would reply "Airborne".  When in doubt though, in the Army, if you simply saluted and said "Hooah, sir (or ma'am)", you were good to go.

Sounds like you have some experience with the 82nd?!  Myself, Bravo Co. 1/505th PIR, some years ago.

[brasda91]

 There is no prescribed distance to initiate a salute, so use common sense.  Technically it is "upon recognition," but I think that 200 feet is a little excessive.

When I was active duty, the general rule of thumb was six paces. Always seemed to work fairly well.

That has been a myth in CAP for many years.  If you look at the NHQ website and look up the myths and legends, this is covered.  It is too hard to tell how far 6 paces out are from the officer.

[Chaplaindon]

Please read CAPP 151 - Customs and Courtesies (as horribly written as it is.)

http://level2.cap.gov/documents/u_082503084356.pdf

Basically though, you will salute all commissioned officers of higher grade than you.  So if you are a SMWOG, you will salute all comissioned officers.  There is no prescribed distance to initiate a salute, so use common sense.  Technically it is "upon recognition," but I think that 200 feet is a little excessive.

Also, a greeting of the day is appropriate, such as "good morning, Sir!"

Don't forget about MOH recipients.

You may get saluted by some enlisted personnel, so just return it and carry on.

As a SMWOG shouldn't one also salute Warrant Officers as well (even those WOs who aren't commissioned)?

[MIKE]

As SMs without grade are classed as "Aimen" and not "Officers"... I would say so.

[LtCol Hooligan]

As SMs without grade are classed as "Aimen" and not "Officers"... I would say so.

Where did you see this?  I am confused as even the newest Senior Member is an Officer in CAP.  We train our cadets to salute them as well.  They are not considered airmen.

In regards to saluting warrent officers, our cadets would salute them, but our officers would not as their grades are technically higher than theirs (if our grades were "real" military grades).  It would be the same as a CAP Captain saluting an Air Force 2d Lt.  It shouldn't happen like that.

[MIKE]

1-3. a. Officer: As used in this publication, includes senior member grades flight officer through major
general and cadet grades second lieutenant through colonel.
b. Airman: Unless otherwise specified, includes all other uniformed members both senior and cadet.

[Ford73Diesel]

I don't see SMWOG under CAP officer or flight officer grades.....

35-5

3. Senior Member Grades.
a. CAP officer grades are:
1) Major General (Maj Gen)
2) Brigadier General (Brig Gen)
3) Colonel (Col)
4) Lieutenant Colonel (Lt Col)
5) Major (Maj)
6) Captain (Capt)
7) First Lieutenant (1st Lt)
8) Second Lieutenant (2d Lt)
2 CAPR 35-5 21 AUGUST 2004
b. CAP flight officer grades are:
1) Senior Flight Officer (SFO)
2) Technical Flight Officer (TFO)
3) Flight Officer (FO)
c. CAP NCO grades are:
1) Chief Master Sergeant (CMSgt)
2) Senior Master Sergeant (SMSgt)
3) Master Sergeant (MSgt)
4) Technical Sergeant (TSgt)
5) Staff Sergeant (SSgt)
6) Sergeant (Sgt)
4. Initial Grades. All senior members will be enrolled as CAP senior members without grade, unless they are specifically
exempt from Level I of the Senior Member Professional Development Program and immediately qualify for an officer grade
in consideration of previous CAP experience, as set forth in section C.

Disabled smileys - MIKE

[MIKE]

That cite works too I guess.  It should be noted that SMs without grade aren't supposed to wear "officer stuff" on the uniform per CAPM 39-1.  So it should be evident that they are not officers... for these purposes.