CAWG CC Fired

[lordmonar]

Taking Chappie's thoughts one step further, if one of the biggest wings in CAP isn't immune to TP's firings no one's job is safe. This action could make TP appear to be above due process, not exactly a revelation to those reading the posts appearing in the Lobby.

No one's job IS safe from the National Commander.  We all serve, ultimatly, at the pleasure of the national commander.  Is this politics or is this removing a commander who he has lost confidance in her ability to command?  Brining in an outsider and clearing out the old regime may be an attempt to fix a bigger problem with the wing.  One we know nothing about.

As far as due process goes....what due process?  The commander was informed she was releived.  Does it seem strange she was releived for a problem she was in the process of fixing?  Look at the Generals at Walter Reed.  They were trying to fix the problem....got fired anyway.

Now you all may be right.  This may be a political move to set up for the next NB.  If so, it may back fire...to much lead time for the opposition (is there an opposition?) to consolidate and plan a counter to this strike.

I'm going to give the guy the benifit of the doubt until someone from CAWG comes up with some hard evidance.  This was just the National Commander doing his job and holding a wing commander accountable for the performance of her job.

Sorry if that offends anyone....even the best leaders screw the pooch sometime and the hammer drops on them.

[SarDragon]

Interesting...one could read into this that our National CC does not have full faith and confidence in anyone in the current CAWG staff structure.  I think it's safe to say that the position wouldn't go to the Finance Officer, but to not select from within the Wing is making a big statement. 

Lt Col Muniz lives in California, and served COWG on a remote basis, telecommuting, so to speak. I consider his selection "from within the wing".

I think much of our discussion here is pure conjecture, and only clouds the true picture. I also think that airing this dirty laundry on a public forum is a disservice to CAWG, and CAP in general.

Dave, I just find it interesting that the Vice Commander or any of the seven Group Commanders were not considered for the job as Interm Wing Commander.

Not exactly the "normal" way to conduct business.

I agree on that 1000%. I can think of at least a dozen members of CAWG who I think are more suitable for selection.

[SarDragon]

[portions redacted]

Is this politics or is this removing a commander who he has lost confidance in her ability to command?  Brining in an outsider and clearing out the old regime may be an attempt to fix a bigger problem with the wing.  One we know nothing about.

From where I sit, it's all politics. BTW, the replacement is not really an outsider; he lives in California, somewhere in San Diego County.

As far as due process goes....what due process?

Region Commanders are the appointing authority for Wing Commanders, not NHQ. All my intel sez that PCR CC was not in the loop.

The commander was informed she was releived.  Does it seem strange she was releived for a problem she was in the process of fixing?

Yes. There was no money missing from the various "pockets". The pockets were just mislabeled.

Look at the Generals at Walter Reed.  They were trying to fix the problem....got fired anyway.

Apples and oranges. There is a great difference in the degree of the "offenses".

Now you all may be right.  This may be a political move to set up for the next NB.  If so, it may back fire...to much lead time for the opposition (is there an opposition?) to consolidate and plan a counter to this strike.

I'm going to give the guy the benifit of the doubt until someone from CAWG comes up with some hard evidance.  This was just the National Commander doing his job and holding a wing commander accountable for the performance of her job.

Sorry if that offends anyone....even the best leaders screw the pooch sometime and the hammer drops on them.

Not only did the things above happen, but  there were many other CAWG members, IMHO, more suited to replace Colonel Nelson. AFAIK, the replacement has never been a squadron or group commander, yet he is now the commander of one of the three largest wings in the organization. Something's fishy, methinks.

YMMV.

[Major Carrales]

Guys...I'm sitting this one out.

I'm more concerned/preoccupied with outfitting our new cadets in Kingsville, Texas and hopefully adding a unit there in the not too distant future.

Wish us luck and help us if you can.

Major Carrales

[shorning]

Guys...I'm sitting this one out.

I'm more concerned/preoccupied with outfitting our new cadets in Kingsville, Texas and hopefully adding a unit there in the not too distant future.

Wish us luck and help us if you can.

So you posted to tell us you're not going to post in this thread?!?

[Mrs. Lisa Hayden]

First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me. - Pastor Martin Niemöller

Many good and highly decorated commanders who have been relieved of their positions by TP have called my house to vent to my husband about their mistreatment by this egomaniac.

It all rests in the hands of the real leaders of CAP – the ones with courage and conviction to come together to rid the organization of this tiresome dictator and to act sooner rather than later - because your numbers are dwindling. 

The BOG is pressing the IG for a decision regarding the cheating scandal and the IG has enough evidence to throw the book at TP, but they have not done so.  I don't know why.  Since the initial three plus hour investigative interview, we have heard from the IG once, telephonically when my husband was posting on this forum during the National Board Meeting.  This member of the IG team said we would be getting a fax shortly, but nothing has arrived.

What is happening to good people in your organization is an atrocity that, if allowed to perpetuate, will take years from which to recover.

I wish you luck and courage.

[Major Carrales]

Guys...I'm sitting this one out.

I'm more concerned/preoccupied with outfitting our new cadets in Kingsville, Texas and hopefully adding a unit there in the not too distant future.

Wish us luck and help us if you can.

So you posted to tell us you're not going to post in this thread?!?

Yes, its a statement of just how I feel about this issue.  It's there, but I have other...better, things to be concerned about.  And so should you.

[ddelaney103]

Guys...I'm sitting this one out.

I'm more concerned/preoccupied with outfitting our new cadets in Kingsville, Texas and hopefully adding a unit there in the not too distant future.

Wish us luck and help us if you can.

So you posted to tell us you're not going to post in this thread?!?

Yes, its a statement of just how I feel about this issue.  It's there, but I have other...better, things to be concerned about.  And so should you.

Ah, I see - it's the CAP Jedi Knights...

You do need to worry about this dismissal...this isn't the Wing King you're looking for...you can go about your business...move along, move along

[Major Carrales]

Guys...I'm sitting this one out.

I'm more concerned/preoccupied with outfitting our new cadets in Kingsville, Texas and hopefully adding a unit there in the not too distant future.

Wish us luck and help us if you can.

So you posted to tell us you're not going to post in this thread?!?

Yes, its a statement of just how I feel about this issue.  It's there, but I have other...better, things to be concerned about.  And so should you.

Ah, I see - it's the CAP Jedi Knights...

You do need to worry about this dismissal...this isn't the Wing King you're looking for...you can go about your business...move along, move along

That was funny!!!

[LtCol White]

First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me. - Pastor Martin Niemöller

Many good and highly decorated commanders who have been relieved of their positions by TP have called my house to vent to my husband about their mistreatment by this egomaniac.

It all rests in the hands of the real leaders of CAP – the ones with courage and conviction to come together to rid the organization of this tiresome dictator and to act sooner rather than later - because your numbers are dwindling. 

The BOG is pressing the IG for a decision regarding the cheating scandal and the IG has enough evidence to throw the book at TP, but they have not done so.  I don't know why.  Since the initial three plus hour investigative interview, we have heard from the IG once, telephonically when my husband was posting on this forum during the National Board Meeting.  This member of the IG team said we would be getting a fax shortly, but nothing has arrived.

What is happening to good people in your organization is an atrocity that, if allowed to perpetuate, will take years from which to recover.

I wish you luck and courage.

Allons enfants de la CAP...!!!!

[BlackKnight]

... It's one of Air Force's and Civil Air Patrol's core values:
Service Before Self

"Service before Self" is one of the USAF core values. The CAP parallel is "Volunteer Service".

Now, while I'm still chuckling over the earlier Jedi analogy, here's a serious question that may (or may not) have a bearing on the CAWG CC situation and this thread:

The CAP Core Values are:

INTEGRITY, VOLUNTEER SERVICE, EXCELLENCE, and RESPECT.

Does Volunteer Service trump the other three?  What happens to volunteer service when integrity, respect, and excellence are ignored?   Does anyone think that perhaps there's a reason why the adjective "Volunteer" is paired with "Service"?   I've met some CAP senior officers who use "volunteer" far too casually.  Judging by their actions they seem to be confusing "volunteer service" with "indentured service"! 

My point is that the core values should be taken in their entirety.  Focusing on one at the expense of the others undermines them all.  When "service" becomes "enabling", it's time to question what we're about and what we're doing.

[shorning]

So you posted to tell us you're not going to post in this thread?!?

Yes, its a statement of just how I feel about this issue.  It's there, but I have other...better, things to be concerned about.  And so should you.

Thanks for the lesson in what I should be concerned with.

[Major Carrales]

I believe the Squadron and Group level are where the rubber meets the road, higher levels should exist for Support of those missions.I pray for the best here.

[Psicorp]

Does Volunteer Service trump the other three?  What happens to volunteer service when integrity, respect, and excellence are ignored?   Does anyone think that perhaps there's a reason why the adjective "Volunteer" is paired with "Service"?   I've met some CAP senior officers who use "volunteer" far too casually.  Judging by their actions they seem to be confusing "volunteer service" with "indentured service"! 

My point is that the core values should be taken in their entirety.  Focusing on one at the expense of the others undermines them all.  When "service" becomes "enabling", it's time to question what we're about and what we're doing.

It's relatively easy to volunteer funds and assets, it's another thing altogether to volunteer your time.  The way I see it, if you can't volunteer your time and be professional, courteous, have integrity, and do what you volunteered to do well, then you're wasting your time and that of others.  It's nothing new (would be scary if it were) and it all has been said (typed) before. 

As far as endentured servitude...I've been told by "She Who Must Be Obeyed" that I am not allowed to quit CAP so long as there is a balance on a credit card for uniform purchases.  I'm beginning to wonder if she's a NHQ Secret Agent. 

[Smokey]

Capt Harris,

Based on the number of CCs who have been canned (see the post on numbers by the historian further back) leads folks to believe it is a purging. What we have seen here and in other associated sites is often the reasons are very flimsy and suspicious. It's almost as if you break wind, it is reason. That wholesale slaughter does not inspire confidence in the leadership. It's hard to belive that the 40 or so who have been canned were all poor leaders.  How confident are you in hte AF leadership?  What if the SECAF SEC of Defense suddenly fired the majority of 3 and 4 stars???  For crying out loud, the libs are crying about 8 US Attorneys getting canned out of 93. (Even though Clinton fired all 93 when he took office)

I've known the CAWG finance officer for years. Both she and her husband (a Wing officer) are above board.  I have no reason to suspect or question their integrity.  Virginia Nelson is also an honorable person.  The new Wing banker thing just started and it's a learning  process. For a large Wing like CA, there are growing pains and glitches.  Nothing nefarious, just VOLUNTEERS trying to make a new program work.  It's called a learning curve.  As was said, no money is missing. There is no suspicion of deliberate wrongdoing.

The wing banker thing was just recently thrown out to all of CAP. Folks are trying to implement it. 

Those in CAWG know this was a cheap shot.

Have some of the firings been for poor leaderhip, mismanagement, etc?  Probably so.  But the numbers make folks suspicious.

[Major Lord]

Do we really do not know what the allegations of financial mismanagement are? I would be very interested in knowing the specifics. The idea that Virginia Nelson would intentionally commit a financial violation is nearly beyond the scope of credulity. Is it a coincidence that the new CC looks a lot more like TP than VN? Is there a racial, sexual or political component to this? Not a single member of CAWG or even PACR was qualified for the post? I hope someone at the DOJ runs an audit on the NCIC to see if anyone has been running CAWG staff!

[Eclipse]

First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me. - Pastor Martin Niemöller

GIVE ME A BREAK! 

Please, now we're equating the removal of office of board member who had ADMITTED financial "irregularities" to genocide? Get over yourself!

And by your further comments, Mrs. Hayden, you yourself feel part of the persecuted class, despite the fact that your partner has ADMITTED in public to cheating on a test?

....please.  Save it.

You know what, I am by no means an apologist for CAPFLT001, I have strong feelings, expressed here and elsewhere, about his actions, and his alleged history, but come on.  THIS IS HOW THE "REAL" WORLD WORKS!

We all want to play in the military pool?  Guess what, welcome to the social, because in the RealMilitary®, very little is done by consensus of the rank-and-file membership, or by committee.

In many cases, unilateral decisions by a single commander are all it takes to remove "good" people from authority, with little to no recourse.

Why do they do it?  Sometimes, "because they can...".

We call strong, decisive personalties that we agree with "leaders", and those we don't "tyrants".

Do I like it?  No.

Is it "right"?  Maybe not.

Want stronger affiliation with our "brothers in blue"?  Get used to it.

[Mrs. Lisa Hayden]

Any thoughtful person would know that the use of the quote was not meant to correlate what TP does to a holocaust.  It was to say that the "good" people who sit by and do nothing while they see others being ousted for questionable reasons may find that when a target is placed on their backs, there will be no one left to speak up on their behalf. 

FYI - Another female commander was forced out by TP's hand and what makes this commander especially memorable is her attendance at a dinner where she received accolade after accolade on behalf of her stellar leadership of a squadron. The cadets who reported to her could not contain their pride when they were named squadron of the year for this particular group. 

TP has a pattern of removing people who do not suit his needs and he is not a strong leader.  He is a bully and we all know the bullies in this world are just scared little boys who are afraid that their insecurities will be discovered.

[Flying Pig]

(((Tangent)))  Whats this cheating scandal people keep talking about.

My department just elected a new Sheriff.  It is her right to choose her Under Sheriff and shuffle people as she sees fit.  In the Under Sheriff job announcement one of the qualifications was "unquestionable loyalty to the Sheriff and her vision for the Department."  This is a $140K per year job.  Its how life really works.  Ive seen officers/deputies try and fight the battle, only to be disciplined for something very minor and unrelated and get transfered out of an assignment.  Guess what, battles over.  Now your even less effective that you were 5 minutes ago.  Ive seen incompotent people promoted and placed in positions of authority....Im talking some serious authority, because of their relationships, not because of their leadership resume. 

Im not saying you shouldnt speak out, but let that person be the one to speak out first if there was an injustice, then gather the facts and rally behind them if you agree.  He didn't kill her or throw her in political prison.

Ive found, both in the miltary, Law Enforcement, and CAP, that FEW people really know the whole story.  Im not saying this is the case here, but Ive seen situations where the agency was doing the person a favor by just quielty reassigning them, when someone decides that the "victim" was wronged, they pick up the sword and lead the charge and uncover what really happened, causing even further damage to the person.

I dont know everyones experiences, but I can tell you, private business, military or government, mishandling money intentional or not, is the quickest way to loose your corner office.

[BlackKnight]

I dont know everyones experiences, but I can tell you, private business, military or government, mishandling money intentional or not, is the quickest way to loose your corner office.

In that case there ought to be quite a few members of "America's native criminal class" (Congress) looking for work.