CAWG CC Fired

[SarDragon]

CAWG has over 5,000 members.

FYI, as of the time of this post, CAWG has 3083 members.

[shorning]

CAWG has over 5,000 members.

FYI, as of the time of this post, CAWG has 3083 members.

Covered by Monty here.

[DNall]

The problem with that is you're talking about govt gpvt appropriated funds that should be in an acct that requires accountability checks to ensure it is spent as directed by congress & AF, versus in a less controlled acct for corporate funds that can be more easily raided.

Other than micromanagement in the extreme, my concerns lean mostly to my understanding that  CAWG was moving to a new accouting system. I don't know if it was the full wing banker solution or a group based system, but there was something going on as I recall. That & stepping in before the deadline to fix the problem. Even if she should have ultimately been relieved, doing so before it is fixed means it won't be addressed till the temp guy comes on & he may not get lots of cooperation. Now if she missed the deadline or refused to comply, then by all means, and if she did comply & then judgement after the fact was that it was too serious to take a chance in teh future, then again by all means move on. However, it is highly irresponsible to jump the gun & micromanage situations & people to the detriment of the unit & org.

Dealing with government appropriated funds doesn't mean the solution is the government.  (I work for the government... getting politicians involved always doesn't get the right thing done, it sometimes gets the political thing done.) 

I think that one of the goals of the Wing Banking Program is designed to actually help provide better accountability of the funds, just like you are pointing out. 

Also, we don't know why she was relieved before the solution was in place.  Maybe the CA Wing CC didn't want to do it the NHQ way.  We don't know.

Could the decision to relieve her be a conspiracy?  Could be.  (Hey, we all like a good conpsiracy in America.)

Could the decision to relieve her be because of a legit reason we'll never know because of CA push-back on this issue?  Could be.

Fact is, when it comes to something like this, we probably won't know.

But, NHQ is getting tight on financial accountability.  They are taking it pretty seriously.  (A lot of it because we have Government Funds involved.)  That, I think, is a good thing.  (I'm not a financial professional, so I can't comment if it is the best way to handle it or not.)

No doubt. And I wasn't arguing for redress of grievances from Congress. That's a real bad idea. My point is there are a range of legitimate reasons why she may have been relieved. The way it was handled seems to fall into the recent pattern of jumping the gun, and that's disconcerting, but there could still be legit reasons & we should withhold judgement till the facts are known.

My point on wing banker though is that it is I'm sure a difficult transition where some wierdness is to be expected. One of the chief complaints about it was the viability in a large wing, and I believe CAWG is the largest currently working it. So, it stands to reason that there'd be a certain degree of slack in that matter, but also it is a politically backed item within CAP & proving it doesn't work on a large wing scale is not good for one staying in command. That's the political reasoning laid on top of the process-story I stated before. Fact is we just don't know & don't need to speculate.

[Smokey]

I find it hard to believe that all the fired Wing and Region commanders were guilty of malfeasance, incompetence, etc.   For an organization our size to have that many misfits running it is improbable.  The number of fired commanders is staggering since TP became boss.

Were all those folks, who were appointed by his predecessors (and that would include at least two Natl CCs- given the time line) incompetent, crooks, or knuckleheads?

Could it be a power grab by a man who wants  to rule for a very long time (remember his attempt to change the rules so he could succeed himself)?

As a 35 year cop-----it smells bad. If I conducted an investigation and the evidence I came up with was that out of 60 folks, more than half were suspects in a crime it would sure peak my senses.

The responses that maybe something really was wrong with the CAWG CC and all the rest that were fired is really naive.   Even the OJ jury would convict based upon the shear number of CCs fired.

[afgeo4]

I may have to change my ID here.  So I can't be found!

I think it is ridiculous to fire someone over funds being in a wrong account or something.  If the funds were missing, that's one thing.  But we ALL know, they were not.

Col Nelson will be missed as Wing Commander!

Yes... I'm thinking the same thing. CG Aux ID comes to mind.

[Pylon]

To all members of California Wing,

Major General Tony Pineda called and relieved me of command effective today. The recent audit of CAWG finances showed that while there is no money missing from CAWG, there is disagreement on the amount of restricted funds in CAWG's books. A number of you have been working to help clarify the situation and I owe you thanks for all your time and effort. MGen Pineda feels appointing a new wing commander would be beneficial in rectifying this situation. He has appointed LtCol Jesus Muniz as the interim commander. LtCol Muniz was recently a member of Sq 144 and is currently serving as the Colorado Wing Director of Aerospace Education. He can be reached at [email redacted]

I would like to thank all the members of CAWG for their hard work and dedication to our missions, to our squadrons, and to CAWG. I treasure the time I have spent with each of you. Let's all work together to continue to make CAWG the best in CAP.

Virginia Nelson

Lifted from CAPBlog

[Psicorp]

Is this guy going to relocate to Ca. or is he going to run the wing via online confrence call?

I believe the interim wing commander selection is actually a California resident (or was) and was disinfranchised with or otherwise left California Wing for Colorado Wing CAP, where he has been most recently the Director of Aerospace Education for COWG. 

Interesting...one could read into this that our National CC does not have full faith and confidence in anyone in the current CAWG staff structure.  I think it's safe to say that the position wouldn't go to the Finance Officer, but to not select from within the Wing is making a big statement. 

[NYWG Historian]

In reply to the query of how many positions have changed hands, I reviewed the CAP Annual Report to Congress for 2004, the ARCs for 2005 and 2006, and today's National webpage listing of Leadership Structure.  This is less than scientific as it does not reflect those who may have held a post for too short a time period to be listed in one of the ARCs.

From 30 September 2005 to 31 December 2006, 32 Region or Wing CC jobs changed hands.  From 31 December 2006 to today's listing, 10 additional Region or Wing CC jobs have changed hands.  (Note: Col Nelson's change is already reflected on today's website.)

In a little under 18 months, 42 of 60 Region or Wing CC slots have changed.

Comparing present to National Board as of 30 September 2004, 48 of 60 Region or Wing CC slots have changed. 

(Note: 2004 & 2005 list DEWG/CC as Col Opland--2006 ARC lists Lt Col Egry acting and current listing has Col Opland again as DEWG/CC.  I included this as a change.)

This is only a snapshot of the number of management changes.

[SarDragon]

Interesting...one could read into this that our National CC does not have full faith and confidence in anyone in the current CAWG staff structure.  I think it's safe to say that the position wouldn't go to the Finance Officer, but to not select from within the Wing is making a big statement. 

Lt Col Muniz lives in California, and served COWG on a remote basis, telecommuting, so to speak. I consider his selection "from within the wing".

I think much of our discussion here is pure conjecture, and only clouds the true picture. I also think that airing this dirty laundry on a public forum is a disservice to CAWG, and CAP in general.

[SarDragon]

[portions redacted] From 30 September 2005 to 31 December 2006, 32 Region or Wing CC jobs changed hands.  From 31 December 2006 to today's listing, 10 additional Region or Wing CC jobs have changed hands.  (Note: Col Nelson's change is already reflected on today's website.)

In a little under 18 months, 42 of 60 Region or Wing CC slots have changed.

Comparing present to National Board as of 30 September 2004, 48 of 60 Region or Wing CC slots have changed. 

An important Q to ask - How many of these changes were NOT at the end of a regular term? I would expect the normal turnover to average around 29% of the 60 slots each year.

[Psicorp]

Lt Col Muniz lives in California, and served COWG on a remote basis, telecommuting, so to speak. I consider his selection "from within the wing".

Fair enough, sir.

[PHall]

Interesting...one could read into this that our National CC does not have full faith and confidence in anyone in the current CAWG staff structure.  I think it's safe to say that the position wouldn't go to the Finance Officer, but to not select from within the Wing is making a big statement. 

Lt Col Muniz lives in California, and served COWG on a remote basis, telecommuting, so to speak. I consider his selection "from within the wing".

I think much of our discussion here is pure conjecture, and only clouds the true picture. I also think that airing this dirty laundry on a public forum is a disservice to CAWG, and CAP in general.

Dave, I just find it interesting that the Vice Commander or any of the seven Group Commanders were not considered for the job as Interm Wing Commander.

Not exactly the "normal" way to conduct business.

[Chappie]

Was gonna remain quiet about conspiracy theories, alleged power grabs, and all that...but one thing does strike me --- the timing of this of this change.  Having been around organizations for awhile (both sacred and secular), I have seen political moves of all sorts.  This one looks quite familiar: take out a prominient figure and the little figures will fall into place. 

We all know that National Board is August --- the CAWG was to have a change of command in late September.  What might be the implied message being sent to say the Wing Commanders of Rhode Island, Vermont, Wyoming with memberships of little over 200 --- or North and South Dakota with memberships of 300+, or Delaware pushing 400 when the Wing Commander of the 2nd largest wing in the organization (membership of 3000+) is relieved of command? 

Not saying that this is what has transpired....but then again it hasn't been the first time such a tactic has been used in an organization.

And while this may not have an direct impact on the NVWG or any other wing in CAP, it is impacting the CAWG as seen in many of the posts that are in this thread. 

[sparks]

Taking Chappie's thoughts one step further, if one of the biggest wings in CAP isn't immune to TP's firings no one's job is safe. This action could make TP appear to be above due process, not exactly a revelation to those reading the posts appearing in the Lobby.

[afgeo4]

Do I renew my membership or not?  Watching the actions of TP I am inclined not to  until he is no longer in charge.

Do you work for Gen Pineda at NHQ?

If not, I'd suggest you do renew and wait him out while staying a member. Think of all the good you can do for our younger and less experienced member by providing a better example of officership! Good and bad leaders exist in all branches of the military and government. It's through perseverence through the bad ones that we learn how to become good ones. Learn on others' mistakes!

[Chappie]

Do I renew my membership or not?  Watching the actions of TP I am inclined not to  until he is no longer in charge.

Do you work for Gen Pineda at NHQ?

If not, I'd suggest you do renew and wait him out while staying a member. Think of all the good you can do for our younger and less experienced member by providing a better example of officership! Good and bad leaders exist in all branches of the military and government. It's through perseverence through the bad ones that we learn how to become good ones. Learn on others' mistakes!

Amen!!!  Not to sound self-centered....but I have invested to much time, money, and effort into this organization --- as well as developing some great relationships to let this make me not want to renew.   While it is an annoyance (big time)...it does not keep me from performing my duties or affect my commitment to the cadets and senior members/officers within our Wing.

[afgeo4]

It's not self-centered. It's one of Air Force's and Civil Air Patrol's core values:

Service Before Self

[DNall]

Do I renew my membership or not?  Watching the actions of TP I am inclined not to  until he is no longer in charge.

Do you work for Gen Pineda at NHQ?

If not, I'd suggest you do renew and wait him out while staying a member. Think of all the good you can do for our younger and less experienced member by providing a better example of officership! Good and bad leaders exist in all branches of the military and government. It's through perseverence through the bad ones that we learn how to become good ones. Learn on others' mistakes!

Amen!!!  Not to sound self-centered....but I have invested to much time, money, and effort into this organization --- as well as developing some great relationships to let this make me not want to renew.   While it is an annoyance (big time)...it does not keep me from performing my duties or affect my commitment to the cadets and senior members/officers within our Wing.

It's not self-centered. It's one of Air Force's and Civil Air Patrol's core values:
Service Before Self

Agree with all of you there, but it is the kind of thing that keeps good people from accepting command or even staff positions at the Gp/Wg & above level. That in turn just lowers the bar further & further.

[wingnut]

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950), Man and Superman (1903)

[wingnut]

Great services are not canceled by one act or by one single error.
Benjamin Disraeli (1804 - 1881)

Thank you Colonel Virginia Nelson