CSAG May Meeting Agenda

[arajca]

The agenda for the May meeting of the CAP Senior Advisory Group is available here.
Some interesting stuff...
Proposal to require GES for Phase 1 (cadets).
Redoing the senior grade structure.
Reference to CAP NCO program and its expected approval by the AF.
Plus more!

[ProdigalJim]

I agree completely with the sentiment on revamping the SM grade structure, particularly with making OBC a Level I requirement. Moreover, while I certainly understand the efficiency and availability arguments for the online OBC -- and I think it should continue to be offered that way -- I also believe it should be supplemented with day and a half or two day seminars, a la SLS.

These OBC indoc classes would allow some degree of hands-on modeling of the behaviors we want to see, such as proper C&C, bearing and uniform wear. It would also give members the opportunity to network outside their squadron, which could be crucial in retaining a new member if the home squadron tilts more "goober" than grownup. Lastly, it allows us to set a visible standard at the outset for everyone.

[lordmonar]

I love the one about booster clubs.

Typical of NHQ types to use six paragraphs to say "there can't be any booster clubs".

[abdsp51]

I hope they can that grade restructure.   Looks like it will drive away people.

[ProdigalJim]

I hope they can that grade restructure.   Looks like it will drive away people.

True, but maybe it will drive away the right people.

I'm one of those people who believe that grade in CAP is sometimes kind of a gimme. I've been around long enough now since coming back in in 2011 to have been exposed to some really fantastic leaders. I've also been involved in situations that mixed AD and CAP officers for long periods of time, and while in some cases it was okay, in others the CAP guys did some things that were truly cringeworthy.

The grade structure proposed in the Agenda may or may not be precisely the right one, but I remain concerned about the professionalism and bearing I've seen displayed by some CAP officers, including those at Major and above.

If you don't use changes in the grade structure to raise the bar on professionalism, what other tool do we have?

[abdsp51]

I hope they can that grade restructure.   Looks like it will drive away people.

True, but maybe it will drive away the right people.

The grade structure proposed in the Agenda may or may not be precisely the right one, but I remain concerned about the professionalism and bearing I've seen displayed by some CAP officers, including those at Major and above.

If you don't use changes in the grade structure to raise the bar on professionalism, what other tool do we have?

I agree on the behaivor aspect and I think our requirements are pretty good but could be tweaked.  I do not agree with havingeveryone start as a FO.  We already have a board requirement persay with some promotions having to goto the Wg. I know when I go for Capt it will goto the Wg after I have met with the promotion board at the unit level.

[PHall]

Someone needs to point out that Captain is NOT Field Grade....  It's Company Grade.
And of course this was written by someone who will NOT be affected by this "new" program.

[Walkman]

I would applaud a movement toward a tougher series of requirements for rank. When I first joined, I was full-on MOTO for training and when I finished L1, I was a little underwhelmed. After I took the OBC, my first thought was "I wish I had done this as a SMWOG".

I wouldn't go as far to agree that ALL of our officer grades are "gimme's", but certainly the LT grades could fall into that category. O-3 to a lesser extent, but it's not a major challenge.

True, but maybe it will drive away the right people.

I honestly agree with that statement. I don't want to come off as elitist or discriminatory, but I think that there's should be a certain level of maturity, intelligence and ability to become a member. I have no clue how to measure that kind of thing, but that's why there's supposed to be membership committees.

You could argue that some (if not most) of the image issues we face as an organization come from people whose level of maturity, intelligence and ability wasn't high enough. 

[lordmonar]

The Grade restructuring is just another half measure.

Instead of getting rid of the advanced promotions, instead of holding commanders to a standard and stop the promotions for promotions sake, instead of putting real meat into the promtoion system in the first place.

the  just stick on the Flight Officer grades in front of the Lt's and hope that that fixes everything.

Want to fix the CAP rank thing.....tie rank into postions....i.e. Want to be Major....serve as a Squadron Commander or wing Vice Commander, want to be Lt Col serve as a Group commander.  The highest rank you can be with out being a commander is Capt.

[NC Hokie]

The agenda for the May meeting of the CAP Senior Advisory Group is available here.
Some interesting stuff...
Proposal to require GES for Phase 1 (cadets).

If the CSAG ends up requiring GES for cadets, I hope they do the right thing and require it for Senior Members as well.

[abdsp51]

The agenda for the May meeting of the CAP Senior Advisory Group is available here.
Some interesting stuff...
Proposal to require GES for Phase 1 (cadets).

If the CSAG ends up requiring GES for cadets, I hope they do the right thing and require it for Senior Members as well.

Really let's hope not because not every SM has the desire to do ES.  And not every cadet will want to do ES as well.

[a2capt]

FECA, FTCA? 12 year old cadets? Nit picky details about ground teams being sent out with how many people?

Not all of them are going to get that, all you're going to do is prove they can search/replace and it actually may be a barrier more than anything.

Let them get used to the system before cramming all that stuff on them. Right now, between EO, OPSEC, Intro to Safety.. what's another couple forays into the bowels of the testing system.

[Spaceman3750]

The grade restructure needs to go. I appreciate the sentiment, but master rating for SFO? Seriously? I think that they may be overshooting a bit here, and shoving FO grades in before the Lt's will only serve to prop up prior-cadet and prior-military folks onto a pedestal they don't necessarily belong on. There are already advanced grade options to recognize that their prior service puts them ahead.

[OldGuard]

And of course this was written by someone who will NOT be affected by this "new" program.

Could not agree more... It is the one up mentality.

[abdsp51]

Hell the requirements currently for Maj alone is a potential stonewall for some.

[LGM30GMCC]

Regarding the promotions thing which I can see is a hot potato...

It was deferred to a working group. Let the working group do its work and come back to the CC with a recommendation. The original proposal was one thought on how to increase professionalism and the like in the senior member ranks.  There are certainly many other possibilities as well.

[NIN]

Too bad the CSAG won't take up the issue of documentation of awards and decs for military folks (to prevent the kind of tomfoolery we're seeing over the last several days)

[lordmonar]

On the Rank Restructure......the opening line of the proposal says it all.

CAP members are achieving rank far too quickly and automatically.

Fix.....slow down promotions and make it less automatic.

Adding promotions to front of the promotion system is of itself not a fix.

I would how ever would look at a system where the Flight Officer Ranks were a part of the normal/natural progression of any CAP officer.

Keep the 3-6-12 progression of FO to SFO.........but then 12 months as sf to 2d Lt.....and on from there.  Require Command experince for Major and above.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Hell the requirements currently for Maj alone is a potential stonewall for some.

Especially for those who do qualify and yet are told they cannot be promoted.

[NIN]

I might also suggest front-loading the training requirements a little more.

I went to Region Staff College and they were putting out stuff that should be seen by Company Grade officers.  Teaching majors how to march and do inspections is NOT what Field Grade officers should be doing in preparation for more senior-level leadership in the organization.

I honestly think that SLS should have an encampment-like aspect to it. It should be more "hands-on leadership/officership" and RSC can be more on the "staff work"