Military saluting CAP?

[Turk]

As a matter of regulation CG Auxies don't salute each other (Its not required but on the other hand isn't prohibited either) and isn't like CAP senior members who just fail to do follow the regulation).  So, requiring CAP members to salute those in the CG Aux hardly seems worthwhile.

Quite right.

There was also a previous post from another contributor who stated that Auxies must salute all regular officers. Incorrect! Just like CAP members, Auxies only salute regulars of higher grade (yes, Auxies have office, not grade, but you know what I mean). Commodore Vass would no more salute a USCG Ensign than would Maj Gen Carr salute a USAF 2nd Lt.

Like CAP Officers, Auxies are instructed to return any salute rendered by an Armed Forces regular, even though the initiated salute is not required.   

Neither CAP not CGAux regs specify saluting members of each other's auxiliary, but the world would not end if somebody actually did. 

[ColonelJack]

(It goes without saying that I'm saluting anyone wearing stars on collars or shoulders, "A" or not.)

Pop quiz, hotshot:  "HWSRN" walks into a room with 12 stars on his shoulders...what do you do?   

Oh, well, if it's him ... the one-finger salute is most appropriate.   

And that's "Colonel Hotshot" to you ... 

Jack

[RRLE]

There was also a previous post from another contributor who stated that Auxies must salute all regular officers. Incorrect! Just like CAP members, Auxies only salute regulars of higher grade (yes, Auxies have office, not grade, but you know what I mean). Commodore Vass would no more salute a USCG Ensign than would Maj Gen Carr salute a USAF 2nd Lt.

Turk,

Your are mistaken as to the USCG Aux regs.

This is the reg from the AuxMan (Auxiliary Manual) that was published in 2011. The saluting reg for Auxies has not changed since the inception of the Aux.

"The hand salute is a long-established form of greeting and recognition exchanged between persons in the Armed Forces. Saluting is proper courtesy for Auxiliarists when greeting commissioned officers of the Armed Forces including National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) and the U.S. Public Health Service (USPHS) uniformed officers who serve with the Armed Forces."

AuxMan 12.A.1. Greetings.

Read the part in bold. Auxies, all Auxies, greet all military officers with a salute. There is no leeway for a high ranking officer to not salute a low ranking member of the military. I was on the final edit board for the prior revision of the AuxMan. The Aux tried to put a 'higher then themselves' provision in the AuxMan. Nat Aux did put such a statement in a Aux-only (not USCG approved) publication. The USCG ripped out that Aux's attempt to change the saluting rule and it remains as it always was - all Auxies salute all military officers first. So the National Commodore must salute the newest minted Ensign or Warrant Officer.

Further, the AuxMan is not neutral about saluting between Auxies. This would put the kibosh on any idea of the two Auxiliaries saluting each other.

"Saluting is not required between Auxiliarists nor is it usually the custom of greeting between them."

AuxMan 12.Introduction

If something is not required and not 'usually the custom' then you are violating long standing custom and courtesies to begin saluting other Auxies.

[RiverAux]

Thanks RRLE -- I made a half-hearted attempt to look up the reg as I knew the rule, but didn't want to say anything without backup.

However, I disagree about your interpretation of saluting between Auxies.  It is certainly not required, but if they wanted to actually prohibit it, they would have said so -- just like they've prohibited all sorts of other activities, in clear language.

[RRLE]

However, I disagree about your interpretation of saluting between Auxies.  It is certainly not required, but if they wanted to actually prohibit it, they would have said so -- just like they've prohibited all sorts of other activities, in clear language.

There is not an outright ban since there is one occasion that I am aware of that saluting between Auxies does occur and with USCG knowledge. That is the Change of Watch (the Aux does not change command) between the National Officers. That has been going on for years. But to state that something is not 'usually the custom' then it is not something that should be done by Auxies as a regular part of Auxie culture.

There was an Auxie who was very stringent about instituting saluting among Auxies. He started doing it in his flotilla and would write about it on military.com. I warned him not to do it or take it public, based on earlier versions of the AuxMan rule above. He got away with it for quite a while. Then while he was running a color guard at a division meeting he saluted the color guard at the end. They returned the salute and he got a public reaming by the Powers-That-Be. That was the end of his attempt to institute saluting among Auxies.

[RiverAux]

Saluting among Auxies certainly doesn't make sense in the first place since no Auxie "outranks" another in the traditional sense of the word.  Just pointing out that it isn't prohibited.  I suppose if an individual Auxie wanted to start saluting those who "out-officed" him, he could. but you certainly couldn't force anyone else to start doing the same.

[flyguy06]

Because were not being sent over seas to fight the war. They are risking lives, we are saving them.

Thats not a reason to salute. Enlisted soldiers are not saluted. period.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Read the part in bold. Auxies, all Auxies, greet all military officers with a salute. There is no leeway for a high ranking officer to not salute a low ranking member of the military. I was on the final edit board for the prior revision of the AuxMan. The Aux tried to put a 'higher then themselves' provision in the AuxMan. Nat Aux did put such a statement in a Aux-only (not USCG approved) publication. The USCG ripped out that Aux's attempt to change the saluting rule and it remains as it always was - all Auxies salute all military officers first. So the National Commodore must salute the newest minted Ensign or Warrant Officer.

So I wasn't wrong after all.

Further, the AuxMan is not neutral about saluting between Auxies. This would put the kibosh on any idea of the two Auxiliaries saluting each other.

I rarely saw it happen, but when it did, there was no fanfare about it.  I saluted my FC once when getting presented with an award; he just returned it and said "Carry on."

If the Coast Guard wanted it not to happen, someone with lots of gold piston rings would have made sure it was in the AuxMan...just as the somewhat-goofy reg we have about us having to salute military members but it being optional for them to salute us.

I know some have suggested an equivalent of the CGAUX Member Device for CAP members to wear when working with the military...there were a lot of things I liked about being in the Auxiliary but the "rank that isn't rank" and the plethora of office abbreviations was not one of them, and I wouldn't like us to adopt that at all, though the "nonmilitary" zealots would probably clamour for it.



I used to carry a set of these in my pocket at all times; never had to use them except before holding an office.

I think our regs should be revised so that we are required to salute one another and make it either/or regarding the military:  either make it optional for us to salute them (most of us would, I think) or make it required for them to salute us (ain't happenin').

[RiverAux]

I know some have suggested an equivalent of the CGAUX Member Device for CAP members to wear when working with the military...t

Heck, there probably aren't enough CAP members "working with the military" to justify making a special device.  Of course, that hasn't stopped us from having an "NCO program" either. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

It would probably just entail some combination of the metal CAP cutouts and blank grey epaulette sleeves rather than something entirely new.

[Brad]

It would probably just entail some combination of the metal CAP cutouts and blank grey epaulette sleeves rather than something entirely new.

In this day and age it'd more likely be pin-on versions of TTT

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

Because were not being sent over seas to fight the war. They are risking lives, we are saving them.

Thats not a reason to salute. Enlisted soldiers are not saluted. period.

Unless they were awarded the Medal of Honor.

[im_not_a_sir]

salute anything that moves

[LGM30GMCC]

Please...don't. I wish this mentality would die. It makes people look silly. It applies if you don't know any better. But for CAP members if the rank is on the shoulder, collar, or chest and looks like our officer ranks. Salute as appropriate based on rank. If it's Navy/Coastie style shoulder or sleeve marks...well, at least learn to recognize an officer and approximately what paygrade they are.

If it's a foreign guy, then yeah you can guess. But our Canadian friends are easy to learn, and at bases where they are common they often have a US Insignia on a pocket or somewhere visible to prevent you from having to guess.

[jeders]

If it's a foreign guy, then yeah you can guess. But our Canadian friends are easy to learn, and at bases where they are common they often have a US Insignia on a pocket or somewhere visible to prevent you from having to guess.

At SWRSC, there was a contingent of foreign safety officer students on base at the same time, and they usually took lunch at the same time we did. I never saw so many stars and stripes in my life, but fortunately they all wore either a badge with their rank or hard rank pinned to the collar/namebadge of their flight suit. Still very interesting to try and figure out whether or not to salute, generally not since they were mostly lieutenant equivalants.

[West MI-CAP-Ret]

I've been around since I joined as a cadet in 1975.  I've had a love-hate relationship with CAP, but since 1991, I've been pretty consistent member.  Once you get past the "personalities" you learn that CAP is a pretty great organization.  However, there are a few folks who never had time for the real military nor took the time to become professional and caring through crisis, danger and boredom that the military provides.  Back in the day, from 20 feet away you couldn't tell whether you were looking at an air force member (or air national guardsmen if their uniform was not too sharp) or a member of CAP, because our epaulets were blue.  We all wore CAP on our collars and CAP buttons on our blues.

Somewhere around the late 80s, a CAP colonel required the local Air Force Wing Commander to have a meeting with him.  Still another CAP officer gave an Air Force enlisted a bunch of guff for not saluting her.  The list goes on.  Because of these unprofessional, unhappy members, we have had to endure red epaulets which thankfully became gray.  Bottom line, you need to instruct new cadets to salute, but for everyone else, give'em a book and let them figure it out.  I salute lieutenants, and everybody in between when I walk past them.  If they are enlisted, I greet them.  I wear my uniform the way I did when I was paid to do it, but also because I take great pride in the Air Force uniform because I personally feel it represents America, which I love with all my heart.

The more people see CAP as a friendly place that cares for people, the more people will be attracted to join.  CAP exists to save lives.  I am grateful to be a part of that, and I no longer have a love/hate relationship with CAP.  Get past the fools (thankfully there are only a few) and focus on serving each other and our community.

Great Discussion,

Warmly, D2, CAPT, CAP
Med Retired AF SSgt, Flight Management Specialist

[JayT]

Because were not being sent over seas to fight the war. They are risking lives, we are saving them.

Thats not a reason to salute. Enlisted soldiers are not saluted. period.

Unless they were awarded the Medal of Honor.

Even that is a matter of custom, not a matter of regulation.

[PHall]

Because were not being sent over seas to fight the war. They are risking lives, we are saving them.

Thats not a reason to salute. Enlisted soldiers are not saluted. period.

Unless they were awarded the Medal of Honor.

Even that is a matter of custom, not a matter of regulation.

Oh, I dare you to violate that "custom", you will NOT be happy with the results!

[JayT]

Because were not being sent over seas to fight the war. They are risking lives, we are saving them.

Thats not a reason to salute. Enlisted soldiers are not saluted. period.

Unless they were awarded the Medal of Honor.

Even that is a matter of custom, not a matter of regulation.

Oh, I dare you to violate that "custom", you will NOT be happy with the results!

Am I wrong, or not? I didn't say that a MoH reciprocate didn't deserve the honor of a salute, but that it was a matter of custom rather then regulation.

[SarDragon]

Am I wrong, or not? I didn't say that a MoH reciprocate didn't deserve the honor of a salute, but that it was a matter of custom rather then regulation.

What is that? If you have autocorrect on whatever you're posting from, turn it off. If not, learn the proper word. It's recipient.