Military saluting CAP?

[MHC5096]

The Coast Guard Auxiliary takes it even further.  Even their National Commodore, James Vass, is required to salute the newest Warrant Officer 1, despite the fact that he wears office (grade) insignia of a Vice Admiral; however, Auxiliarists do not salute one another.

Actually that is not accurate. Not sure where you are getting your information from. Coast Guard Auxiliary members are only required to salute those military officers who are senior to them. Office insignia in the CGAUX parallels grade insignia in the military. The National Commodore is not required to salute a Warrant Officer. As a Flotilla Staff Officer (same insignia as an Ensign/Second Lieutenant) I am only required to salute O-2's and higher.

[Grumpy]

Yee gad!  Would some buddy, any buddy, PLEASE bury this horse!!

[LGM30GMCC]

I don't know that's it really dead...

Dr. McCoy?

He's Dead, Jim !

Well I think that settles it.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Thank you for sharing that. My unit's Ops O is an USAFR O3 and when he talks about our place within the larger AF family, its in these kinds of terms. It's nice to hear the same sentiment here on CT, where it's regularly passed around that we're the proverbial red-headed step-child (no offense to gingers or step children) who is barely tolerated by Big Blue.

That is a good account.  That AFRES Captain sounds like a good egg.  I can count the number of times I have heard an AF member refer to CAP as "part of the Air Force family"...one (1).  That was about 15 years ago, from a Captain heading a university ROTC detachment that we used to work with.  Most of the attitudes I've got from AF personnel range from grudging acceptance, to indifference, to background uncomplimentary murmuring about us being "all officers."  I've got the occasional warm fuzzy from AF personnel, as when I was coming out of an MCSS right after joining CAP in '93.  I saluted an AFRES Lt Col, offered the customary "good afternoon, Sir."  He returned my salute and stopped, shook my hand vigorously and said "Lieutenant, you CAP people take so much of the workload off us"....I wish I could have videotaped that.

But remember, I came into CAP right after the rift with the AF started (berry boards).

Sorry for one last gasp at the dead horse...

For those who are curious, the CG does not have W-1's.  The CG and Navy start at CWO-2.  The Army and Marines have W-1's.

http://www.defense.gov/about/insignias/officers.aspx

I got my information from having been in the Auxiliary myself, having been a VFC, and keeping a pair of Member insignia in my pocket in case I had to augment (I never did, unfortunately).  I remember being told that ALL commissioned and warrant officers outranked me, but to return salutes when given.

However, it's been several years since I was in the Auxiliary, and recent research seems to corroborate your statement about only saluting officers senior in grade/office.  I stand corrected.

Back to your regularly scheduled "let-the-horse-die" programming.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

OK, here's a new twist for this discussion:

Do CAP and CGAUX members salute each other?

[Walkman]

OK, here's a new twist for this discussion:

Do CAP and CGAUX members salute each other?

I absolutely would. I have no clue how to read their grade insignia, but when in doubt...

[lordmonar]

OK, here's a new twist for this discussion:

Do CAP and CGAUX members salute each other?

HAVE TO.......no.  But I would.

[Persona non grata]

Those old Vets wearing the ball caps, then ones who come up and talk to you and they show appreciation for you serving, well I salute those guys and thank them for their service.  I have even saluted NSCC Officers who were wearing higher grade than mine.....We dont have to do so but it is the proper and proffesional thing to do.We all are all on the same team......trying to serve our community and nation.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Having been an Auxiliarist myself, I have no problem saluting them, even though it's not required.  NSCC, too, and State Guard officers.

We dont have to do so but it is the proper and proffesional thing to do.We all are all on the same team......trying to serve our community and nation.

I don't think I have read a more succinct summary of our various quasi-military organisations acting in support of the Armed Forces. :clap:

One time I was in a McDonald's on the way to a meeting and there was an elderly gentleman and his wife sitting a couple of booths away from me.  He had a ball cap on that said "Iwo Jima Veteran, with the USMC EGA."  I walked up to his table, came to attention and snapped him my best salute.  He looked a little taken aback at first but then returned the salute, smiled and said "thank you, Captain."  I said "thank you, Marine."

[Brad]

[I absolutely would. I have no clue how to read their grade insignia, but when in doubt...

Off-topic but...


It reads the same as Navy and Gold-side Coast Guard: first: more stripes outrank less stripes and second: thick stripes outrank thin stripes.

Technically there is no rank in the USCGAUX, we are all referred to as "Auxiliarist", abbreviated AUX. Exception for the Commodores at the Division+ (read Wing) levels, they are referred to as "Commodore" and use the abbreviation COMO. Sleeve and collar insignia is the same as active duty Coast Guard except silver stripes instead of gold, hence gold-side vs silver-side, and the shield with the letter "A". On the shoulder boards and the sleeve stripes on the dress blues coat, a white A indicates an elected position such as Flotila Commander (read Squadron Commander, and yes you heard right, ELECTED), and a red A indicates an appointed position such as a staff position assigned to you by the FC. If you don't have a staff position you wear the shoulder boards with no stripes, just the shield with a silver "A" (On the collar insignia, a blue "A" imposed over your office insignia means an elected position. The red "A" is repeated on the collar insignia same as on "soft" insignia).

Again, insignia doesn't indicate rank in the CGAUX, but duty position. A Flotila staff officer for example wears "Ensign stripes" - one stripe with a red "A" shield, or gold bars on the collar with a red "A" on them. A Flotilla Commander for example will always wear two full size stripes wsame as a Navy or USCG LT with a white "A" shield, or LT bars (Captain's bars for you non-seagoing types) with a blue "A" centered.

So what happens if a former Flotilla Commander then gets appointed to a FSO (Flotilla Staff Officer) position by his/her successor? Does he/she have to replace the FC insignia with the "subordinate" FSO "Ensign" insignia? Nope! AUXMAN (our regs collection) says you wear the office insignia of your HIGHEST office held, not your current.

Hope this helps!

Now if only I could find out what the hold-up is with my membership application at DIRAUX...

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Brad is correct in his description of USCGAUX insignia.

However, I could never get the alphabet-soup designations straight, or why there had to be a blue "A" v. a red "A" for elected/appointed positions.

When I see a CGAUXIE now I just say "Lieutenant," "Ensign," "Commander" etc. even though it's not on-paper correct.  WIWACGA that's what most military types who saw me did..."Ensign" when I was an FSO or "Lieutenant" when I was a VFC.

I don't know if they salute us or not; I imagine it's down to the individual Auxiliarist.

I do know I'd give a lot to have CAP have the excellent relationship with the Air Force that they have with the Coast Guard.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Seems to me that both auxiliaries would exchange courtesies.

But the Young Marines, the NSCC and the Army Cadets? While the Sea Cadets are Congressionally chartered, so's the Red Cross and many other organizations (so that's not really an equivalency), if you wanted to get to brass tacks. The other two are private organizations. None of them salute CAP members of any stripe that I've ever seen, and I've seen it personally. Funny looks is all you see exchanged.

If you choose to salute them, that's up to you -- using the "when in doubt" philosophy, if you want -- but speaking for myself, I can't see why. They're not auxiliaries with an operational raison d'etre and a well-defined relationship with their parents, but rather strictly youth programs, just wearing military uniforms with some modifications. 

Exchanging salutes with Auxies might be a good thing to see in regulation, I imagine, regardless.

Again, just my personal opinion.

[bosshawk]

For some of you old soldiers, remember the Army slogan that went this way: "if it moves, salute it, if it doesn't move, paint it and if you can't paint it, pick it up and move it". ?

Sort of where this thread has gone.

[cap235629]

For some of you old soldiers, remember the Army slogan that went this way: "if it moves, salute it, if it doesn't move, paint it and if you can't paint it, pick it up and move it". ?

Sort of where this thread has gone.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
nuff said, moving on.......

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

They're not auxiliaries with an operational raison d'etre and a well-defined relationship with their parents, but rather strictly youth programs, just wearing military uniforms with some modifications. 

Sometimes our operational raison d'etre and especially relationship with our parent service is not all that well-defined.

My first CAP unit met at an Armed Forces Reserve facility that also had Navy Reserves, Marine Reserves, Army National Guard and NSCC.  The Sea Cadets had near-full use of the Navy Reserve section; we had one room and one file cabinet in the Guard section.  The NSCC section had prominent signage stating that they were "part of the NAVY family."  In nearly two decades of CAP service, I have heard one (1) AF member say that about CAP.

Another CAP unit I served had one room at a college campus and we had to keep our files in moveable containers.  There was an Air National Guard facility nearby where we were persona non grata.

Which relationship is better delineated?

[RiverAux]

As a matter of regulation CG Auxies don't salute each other (Its not required but on the other hand isn't prohibited either) and isn't like CAP senior members who just fail to do follow the regulation).  So, requiring CAP members to salute those in the CG Aux hardly seems worthwhile. 

[RRLE]

Technically there is no rank in the USCGAUX, we are all referred to as "Auxiliarist", abbreviated AUX. Exception for the Commodores at the Division+ (read Wing) levels, they are referred to as "Commodore" and use the abbreviation COMO.

Change division to district. The Aux structure top to bottom is National, District (which might cover multiple states), Divisions (generally smaller then a state but some are equal to states) and flotilla. Only the top dog in the district is a COMO. The Vice and Rears lost those designations about a year ago.

On the shoulder boards and the sleeve stripes on the dress blues coat, a white A indicates an elected position such as Flotila Commander (read Squadron Commander, and yes you heard right, ELECTED), and a red A indicates an appointed position such as a staff position.

And just to add complexity to the matter, the sew-on office insignia for the ODU now sports a black "A" for everyone.

So what happens if a former Flotilla Commander then gets appointed to a FSO (Flotilla Staff Officer) position by his/her successor? Does he/she have to replace the FC insignia with the "subordinate" FSO "Ensign" insignia? Nope! AUXMAN (our regs collection) says you wear the office insignia of your HIGHEST office held, not your current.

With the caveat that if the current office does not match the insignia then the Past Officer Device (POD) must also be worn.

[ColonelJack]

My $0.02 on the CGAUX officers:  If I see someone with a bird on their collar/shoulder, I'm saluting them.  I don't care if the bird has an "A" on it or not.  (It goes without saying that I'm saluting anyone wearing stars on collars or shoulders, "A" or not.)

Easy fix, at least from my perspective.  As many have said, it's a courtesy, not a requirement.  For those wearing AD uniforms, it's a requirement I'm happy to fulfill.

Jack

[jimmydeanno]

(It goes without saying that I'm saluting anyone wearing stars on collars or shoulders, "A" or not.)

Pop quiz, hotshot:  "HWSRN" walks into a room with 12 stars on his shoulders...what do you do?   

[Майор Хаткевич]

(It goes without saying that I'm saluting anyone wearing stars on collars or shoulders, "A" or not.)

Pop quiz, hotshot:  "HWSRN" walks into a room with 12 stars on his shoulders...what do you do?   

One finger Salute?