Military saluting CAP?

[KirkF22]

I was reading a story on the Internet today about a man in the military. He was walking and a CAP colonel stopped him and told him he had to salute her. He said he was not required to because she is an auxiliary organization of the Air Force and did not actually count as being in the military.  They began to cuss each other out. Which one of them do you think was right? I personally believe the military man was correct. I believe she should had saluted him even though she out ranked him. When in that situation in both shoes, as a CAP colonel and a military man, what would you do?

[RogueLeader]

Military. However, if said CAP Col is also RM officer, that could be interesting.  However, even if RM, if in CAP uniform, not required.  Also, those have been floating around the internet for a while.  Don't pay attention to those.

[RogueLeader]

I believe she should had saluted him even though she out ranked him.

Why?   

[KirkF22]

Because were not being sent over seas to fight the war. They are risking lives, we are saving them.

[abdsp51]

Real mil was right to a degree however if he/she did engage in a cussing match as defined them both of them fell into the wrong.  Much to learn this one has.

[Eclipse]

I was reading a story on the Internet today

Define, because your answer is likely contained in your source.

The answer is "they were both wrong".

By regulation, CAP members are required to salute members of the military who are superior in grade. Members of the military are allowed, but not required to salute members of CAP in the same circumstance.

The CAP member was 100% wrong in both his understanding of the reg and his challenging someone in public. The member of the military was wrong in making a public spectacle of a situation which is supposed to be intended as a courtesy and recognition between like minded people and comradeship.
They both should have made mental notes of the reaction and moved on.

Both people in this case has some "point to make" that was ultimately self-defeating.

[KirkF22]

Here is the original post.

This just happened to me today. Usually I'm fine with these CAP officers and I do salute them sometimes out of respect but I didn't really notice her as I walked by. She stops me and says "Do you see this oak leaf? I am a major with the Air Force Auxiliary. You need to salute me". She had a real pissy attitude when she said this to me. I told her politely that she is till a civilian and I don't have to salute her. She responded back "I am still with the Air Force which means you salute me." I pointed to my stripes and told her that this is a real rank and then pointed to her oak leaf and told her that it doesn't mean s*** and she is still a civilian. She started to cuss me out and then I just walked away. This woman was a real b****. Maybe she was just having a bad day or maybe she thinks she really does outrank me. I don't know. Has this ever happened to you?

[Eclipse]

Here is the original post.

This just happened to me today. Usually I'm fine with these CAP officers and I do salute them sometimes out of respect but I didn't really notice her as I walked by. She stops me and says "Do you see this oak leaf? I am a major with the Air Force Auxiliary. You need to salute me". She had a real pissy attitude when she said this to me. I told her politely that she is till a civilian and I don't have to salute her. She responded back "I am still with the Air Force which means you salute me." I pointed to my stripes and told her that this is a real rank and then pointed to her oak leaf and told her that it doesn't mean s*** and she is still a civilian. She started to cuss me out and then I just walked away. This woman was a real b****. Maybe she was just having a bad day or maybe she thinks she really does outrank me. I don't know. Has this ever happened to you?

That's an ooolde thread on Military Times, and most of the responses there, by others in the military, were spot on.

[Al Sayre]

Because were not being sent over seas to fight the war. They are risking lives, we are saving them.

Many CAP members are former (and current) military members who have served overseas in time of war and peace.  Quite a few of them have sustained injuries and/or disabilities in the service of their country.  Does the military members' current service outweigh their prior service in some manner that would make them obligated to salute?

CAPP 151 explains proper saluting protocol.

[KirkF22]

c. Respect for Retirees. Military retirees are treated with
the same respect and courtesies as active duty members. By
public law, they have earned and are entitled to enjoy certain
U.S. Government benefits, rights, and privileges. One of these
rights is that military members in a retired status are entitled to
be addressed, both in written and verbal communications, by
their retired rank.

Yes I do agree that veterans deserve the same respect as current military men and women. However, he had no way of knowing if the Colonel was once in the military.

[JeffDG]

I know our Wing Commander has made it clear if he hears of any such silliness (demanding a salute from military) in his wing, the only thing they will see is a 2b.

[KirkF22]

I myself would never demand or request a salute from a person in uniform. If i do, (hopefully i will) make it to the Air Force I would salute a Civil Air Patrol member if ever had the opportunity.

[RogueLeader]

Here is a war story of mine.  I was in the 161st ESC, 27th EN BN, Ft. Bragg.  I was a PFC and a CAP 1st Lt.  My Platoon Leader (2LT)  knew I was in CAP, and that she was not required to salute.  Whenever I was in my CAP uniform, she saluted me, when normally I saluted her (when I was in ACU's)  Nobody had a cow.

[Eclipse]

I know our Wing Commander has made it clear if he hears of any such silliness (demanding a salute from military) in his wing, the only thing they will see is a 2b.

And it should be swift. 

[Garibaldi]

Meh...most of the military people I've encountered while in uniform render C&C out of habit. I was in AFROTC and was in my CAP uniform and got 2 different responses in the same day. I went in to see my flight commander about something and he treated me the same as if I was in my AFROTC uniform: a scummy GMC. When I left and was walking down the street I ran into 4 GMC's and they all saluted me. I was a 1LT at the time. Soooo, I guess it depends on what they know of CAP. If they know a lot about CAP or were in it, I guess they can feel an obligation to render C&C. If they don't know much other than we're a bunch of civilians, then they probably won't. Raising the issue won't fix things and will make you look like an ass, as we've seen. Apocryphal or not, the story does make the point that we sure as hell don't have to should NOT demand a salute. Our rank is more of a progression structure on the senior side anyway..

My $.02

[RRLE]

The OP post claims that both the military person and the CAPer cussed each other out. I do not see that in the original as posted. I don't consider using the S-word once equal to cussing someone out. Whereas the original story does say the CAPer cussed out the military member.

Sorry the fault is all one way here.

It would make things a lot simplier for CAP if it followed the USCG Aux rule. The Aux rule is that all Auxies salute all military officers first regardless of the Auxies office insignia (Auxies do not have rank just offices). So the 3 star National Commodore should salute the newest minted Ensign or Warrant Officer first.

Coastie officer and enlisted are expected to return a salute from an Auxie.

The Aux tried to change the rule to match the CAP rule a few years ago and the Coast Guard would not even discuss it.

[RiverAux]

Assuming the story is true (a big assumption -- this is the internet after all), both were in the wrong. 

[Critical AOA]

Any CAP member who would make a demand for a salute from anyone in the military is an idiot. I do not care if you are the CAP National Commander and the person is an E-1.  There is no obligation to salute you.  I can see why the enlisted person took exception with the demand and pushed back.  I also find it hard to believe that any CAP officer would believe they are entitled to this display of respect from a person in the real military. Rank in CAP is very easy to come by in comparison to the military.  Any sane person knows this so what is the basis for expecting the salute?  Ridiculous.

[LGM30GMCC]

Because were not being sent over seas to fight the war. They are risking lives, we are saving them.

This might be surprising but...

I have been on active duty for 5 years and have never been sent overseas. About the riskiest thing I have had to do is drive on icy roads in MT during the winter.

While it's nice to be appreciated I think there are quite a few folks out there that have a somewhat distorted view of deployments of U.S. Forces. The USAF even has folks that are deployed overseas and are in areas that are really pretty darn safe.

As I said, it's nice to be appreciated, however try not to get an over zealous view of the military. That, and just because someone is serving does not give them a free pass on being a jerk.

As has been pointed out, in this case this is a very old story that got attention in the AF Times and from CAPNHQ. As others have said, on some level both of these folks could be considered somewhat in the wrong. The best way to combat this sort of thing is consistent application of proper C+C (That means a CAP COL shouldn't be saluting an Active Duty 1st Lt...it looks weird and makes CAP look like idiots. But nor should they expect a salute in return) and making sure our name gets out there in a generally positive light.

If we are better known for our missions and generally good behavior then one of these incidents is viewed as 'Oh look, you ran into an idiot' just like how I react when I read about an airman who received an Article 15. That doesn't mean I think they're all idiots, just that one.

[arajca]

And if, for some unknown reason, a military member salutes a CAP member, DO NOT MAKE POINT OF TELLING THEM THEY ARE WRONG OR DO NOT HAVE TO salute CAP members. Just smartly return the salute, give an appropriate greeting, and carry on.

Some military personnel actually respect CAP members, some do not know they are not required to salute CAP personnel, and some automatically salute any officer grade, regardless of the uniform it's on.