Maj Gen Pineda Misconduct Investigation Hits the News

[Major Carrales]

Not to be a wet blanket here, but since the has been an acknowledgment of an official investigation, we need to abide by CAPR 123-2 Section 7.j. :

j. Commanders and all personnel involved or having knowledge of an investigation are cautioned not to discuss the complaint, investigation, or findings with persons not involved in the investigation or in the direct chain of command of the complainant or respondent. Unauthorized disclosure may result in a claim of defamation against the individual making such unauthorized disclosure and against CAP in a court of law.

Ooops, so much fo that one...eh?

[BlackKnight]

CAPR 123-2 Section 7.j. :

.... in a court of law.

Maybe that's not such a bad idea.  I hate the idea of paying lawyers, but if a court can impartially reveal the truth it would be worth it.

[CAPlikeCrack]

The hot water is getting hotter...

Maj Gen Pineda now being investigated by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, according to the Miami Herald:

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/local/states/florida/counties/broward_county/16291787.htm

[dwb]

All the more reason not to speculate wildly about it on the Internet.

hint, hint...

[mikeylikey]

Either way this goes, it is sure to hurt the organization.  This may very well set back what Pineda has worked on since he became NC.  Too bad rumors of inapropriate actions can cause same if not more damage than the actual act of misconduct.

Sad days for all of us.    

[Hawk200]

Either way this goes, it is sure to hurt the organization.  This may very well set back what Pineda has worked on since he became NC.  Too bad rumors of inapropriate actions can cause same if not more damage than the actual act of misconduct.

Sad days for all of us.    

Agreed. Sometimes unfounded rumors can be the most devastating of all. People will always wonder.

[Lancer]

Of course this is the second article about this that ERIKA BOLSTAD
ebolstad@MiamiHerald.com, has written about this and still has Maxwell AFB in Texas.

Nice investigative skills for a reporter eh? 

[Monty]

Not to be a wet blanket here, but since there has been an acknowledgment of an official investigation, we need to abide by CAPR 123-2 Section 7.j. :

j. Commanders and all personnel involved or having knowledge of an investigation are cautioned not to discuss the complaint, investigation, or findings with persons not involved in the investigation or in the direct chain of command of the complainant or respondent. Unauthorized disclosure may result in a claim of defamation against the individual making such unauthorized disclosure and against CAP in a court of law.

edit spelling error

Hence my subtle (perhaps too subtle) post on page 1 of this thread....

[BillB]

I worked with Colonel Pineda prior to his being elected Vice Commander of CAP. While forced to follow the CAP politics, Colonel (Now MajGen) Pineda struck me as an honorable officer wanting to work within the system. Having someone else take his ACSC exams does not seem to me to be something that he would do. This seems to be a case of sour grapes and without factual basis.

[MattPHS2002]

I've met the General once and he does indeed seem like a great person, however that being said no matter the outcome this accusation (no matter how truthful they are) is going to severely damage CAP as it went out on the wire already.

[DNall]

It is standard policy that resignations are not official until the card is formally handed in by the member. If Mr Hayden was facing an appeal to be permenantly removed for cause from CAP, then asking for him to personally deliver the card before the scheduled time was doing him a favor. The fact that the board did not actually meet when Mr Hayden had agreed to resign doesn't change the deadline.

If his removal from CAP was or was not political, & if it was or was not justified, I can't say. That's a matter for the IG. If Maj Gen Pineda is or is not guilty of these charges, I also cannot say & taht's also a matter for the IG (and external investigators).

The fact is that Mr Hayden could have chosen to deal with this correctly by informing the appropriate investigators directly & working within the system. If that had failed, he would have had civil recourse. Speaking to the media on this matter destroys the possibility of his claim being supported, and seriously harms all of the good people in CAP regardless of how he may feel about these particular individuals.

If I were Gen Pineda in this situation, I'd tell the CAP/IG to begin an investigation, have CAP-USAF coordinate w/ AU to ensure that's an open process meeting their info demands, coorpoerate with any federal/AF investigation, & follow my employer's policy by informing them that I was under investigation so that they could ensure they were clean as well.

Mr Hayden, I don't know how you got in this situation, but grow up & quit acting a fool. You're supposed to provide a Fm 11 to unit commanders to evidence what members attended. The Fm merely contains Name & CAPID, not SSN, which is much better than it used to be. I don't know why you'd refuse to provide that or why you couldn't cover a portion of the information in copy. I imagine it was requested in teh first place because the info had yet to post online & members needed their credit. Maybe you forgot or lost the info & your pride got the better of you - like it seems to be doing now. You've made some mistakes & it's time to pay for them. If your allegations are made up, then stand up & fix it or there's a good chance you'll be faced with criminal & civil charges. If your allegations are true, then stand by the core values & fight the good fight, BUT do that at teh appropriate level. If you feel the CAP/IG hasa conflict of interest, and a good case can be made for that, then talk to the AU/IG whose job this really is. Don't however think you can try this in the court of public opinion & get justice. That's not how it works. The media loves to break the bad news story & cares less what happens later. You won't get any satisfaction, and you'll have greatly harmed CAP & our many outstanding members in the process. You need to from here on out say that you are unable to comment on matters under investigation & refer them to the appropriate IG.

The rest of us need to let this die, I'd prefer if it were all taken down with the exception of the NHQ/PA statement to units & media (very on the ball by the way).

[Johnny Yuma]

Not to be a wet blanket here, but since there has been an acknowledgment of an official investigation, we need to abide by CAPR 123-2 Section 7.j. :

j. Commanders and all personnel involved or having knowledge of an investigation are cautioned not to discuss the complaint, investigation, or findings with persons not involved in the investigation or in the direct chain of command of the complainant or respondent. Unauthorized disclosure may result in a claim of defamation against the individual making such unauthorized disclosure and against CAP in a court of law.

edit spelling error

While this is good advice, this sounds more like corporate CYA than anything. CAP, Inc. is there for one reason only: To protect the officers of CAP, Inc. above all else including the membership. This is corporate law 101.

I wouldn't take anything that CAP said on defamation as legal advice as this was the same line they gave us for years with the Cadet Protection Program: See abuse, tell the Wing CC and keep it quiet. Let NHQ, Inc. do all the investigating, notifying cops, etc.

If this story has any legs, FDLE will find it before the CAP IG will.



Johnny Y.

[Eclipse]

Has anyone put together the alleged 1-2-3 on what exactly the alleged allegations are allegedly supposed to be.

From what I can tell, Hayden would supply a From 1  to someone, which caused a dust-up locally resulting in his being forced to resign or be 2B'ed.

When he went to CAPFLT001 for support, he was told "can't help you", at which time Hayden whips out this alleged nonsense about alledgedly committing fraud by alledgedly taking a test for someone else.

What was the Form 11 for, and what the heck was the big deal?

SSN's don't go on the F11, and CAPID's are meaningless in the real world and easily accessible.

What started this?

[DNall]

Has anyone put together the alleged 1-2-3 on what exactly the alleged allegations are allegedly supposed to be.

From what I can tell, Hayden would supply a From 1  to someone, which caused a dust-up locally resulting in his being forced to resign or be 2B'ed.

When he went to CAPFLT001 for support, he was told "can't help you", at which time Hayden whips out this alleged nonsense about alledgedly committing fraud by alledgedly taking a test for someone else.

What was the Form 11 for, and what the heck was the big deal?

SSN's don't go on the F11, and CAPID's are meaningless in the real world and easily accessible.

What started this?

I just said that.

Mr Hayden, I don't know how you got in this situation, but grow up & quit acting a fool. You're supposed to provide a Fm 11 to unit commanders to evidence what members attended. The Fm merely contains Name & CAPID, not SSN, which is much better than it used to be. I don't know why you'd refuse to provide that or why you couldn't cover a portion of the information in copy. I imagine it was requested in teh first place because the info had yet to post online & members needed their credit. Maybe you forgot or lost the info & your pride got the better of you - like it seems to be doing now.

I hate to speculate, but all sounds stupid to me - stupid followed by immature pride & ends up hurting everyone including the bystanders.

Again, take it to the correct authorities & deal with it the right way. This discussion & any involvement with the media is just bad for CAP & harms any ultimate case.

[Pumbaa]

THis whole thing is sad sad sad...

In a time when we are bleeding memberhip, this kind of thing comes along. 

All I can say is.. it'll be interesting to see how this plays out in the media... how it effects the PR of CAP, how it effects the relationship with the AF, and also what it will do in regards to recruiting and retention.

[Steve Kuddes]

So how many IG investigations is Pineda under now?  This one and I heard there is another one that was brought up at the BOG meeting.

[floridacyclist]

The same Ray Hayden that posted that long rambling piece on some email list a few months ago where he begged (in caps at times if I remember) every member of FL wing to flood the commanders with email after he had an altercation with another officer?

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOK!

I can see where I just want to snap to attention and salute him for telling it like it is.

[lordmonar]

Not to be a wet blanket here, but since there has been an acknowledgment of an official investigation, we need to abide by CAPR 123-2 Section 7.j. :

j. Commanders and all personnel involved or having knowledge of an investigation are cautioned not to discuss the complaint, investigation, or findings with persons not involved in the investigation or in the direct chain of command of the complainant or respondent. Unauthorized disclosure may result in a claim of defamation against the individual making such unauthorized disclosure and against CAP in a court of law.

Thanks Al...


I want everyone to look at this very closely.  Mr Hayden you too.  I don't know if you saw my post in the last thread before it was deleted....but the best thing you can do right now is to remain silent.  Your continued attacks only make your case look worse, makes the investigation harder and does not serve the cause of justice or truth.

[lordmonar]

Not to be a wet blanket here, but since there has been an acknowledgment of an official investigation, we need to abide by CAPR 123-2 Section 7.j. :

j. Commanders and all personnel involved or having knowledge of an investigation are cautioned not to discuss the complaint, investigation, or findings with persons not involved in the investigation or in the direct chain of command of the complainant or respondent. Unauthorized disclosure may result in a claim of defamation against the individual making such unauthorized disclosure and against CAP in a court of law.

edit spelling error

While this is good advice, this sounds more like corporate CYA than anything. CAP, Inc. is there for one reason only: To protect the officers of CAP, Inc. above all else including the membership. This is corporate law 101.

I wouldn't take anything that CAP said on defamation as legal advice as this was the same line they gave us for years with the Cadet Protection Program: See abuse, tell the Wing CC and keep it quiet. Let NHQ, Inc. do all the investigating, notifying cops, etc.

If this story has any legs, FDLE will find it before the CAP IG will.

NO this sort of language is standard operating procedure in any military investigation and most civil and criminal investigations.  The idea is to help insure the quality of the investigation.  That one or more witnesses are not influenced by sharing their information.  It has very little to do with CYA...other than you don't want to make a comment that may be used later in a law suit....again...standard operating procedure for any large corporation involved in a legal issue. 

As far as CPP goes...there is nothing wrong with CYA...protect your cadets, notify your superiors and let them take the appropriate action.  That way....if you are mistaken, all can be forgiven and HQ gets to deal with any law suits and not your squadron.  And despite what you may think...even the most guilty child molester out there still has rights and we still must follow due process.  It is this operating from gut instinct that gets us in trouble more than following the rules.

[flyguy06]

The hot water is getting hotter...

Maj Gen Pineda now being investigated by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, according to the Miami Herald:

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/local/states/florida/counties/broward_county/16291787.htm

Why would the FDLE be involved? Its not a crime to cheat. Its just unethical which in this country is also not a crime.