Do you think CAP is part of the military and why

[JArvey]

It is not anywhere in regs that CAP is part of the military, but I had a long discussion with some of my friends about it and they seem to think it is so I just want to hear some others thoughts on this topic. Personally I do not think that it is.

[JC004]

What?

[PHall]

So in your opinion being the Auxiliary of the Air Force does not make us part of the military?

Interesting...

[NCRblues]

  this must be a joke correct?

[Eclipse]

We are a non-combatant service that is part of the military family.

But you knew that...

[Major Carrales]

We are a non-combatant service that is part of the military family.

But you knew that...

Much of this is aimed at the original question...not so much to your comment Eclipse.

This has been how it has best been described.  CAP is part of the Air Force Family.  It plays its assigned role, Congressional Chartered, via its three missions.

Above all...be more proud of what you are, than ashamed of what you are not.  I am proud of what we do in CAP...wanting combatant roles is beyond the scope of the mission.  Going around telling people you are in some elite force or making CAP out to be more than what it is is a disservice to all the good we do accomplish.

Cheapen not out accomplishments by portraying a false image of what CAP is.  Be frank, provide a realistic image of CAP and take pride in it as the USAF Auxiliary.  You will find selling us for what we are is better than selling disappointment to some new person who is expecting something unrealistic and apocryphal. 

[GTCommando]

 Let's get technical for a minute. Technically speaking, we are the official auxiliary of the United States Air Force. Whether or not we are part of the military depends on your definition of the word "auxiliary."

I searched it, and came up with answers ranging from simply "Helping" or "Auxiliary person, thing, or group," to "additional; supplementary; reserve: i.e. an auxiliary police force," or "an organization allied with, but subsidiary to, a main body of restricted membership."

If you think of an auxiliary as "helpers," then no, we are not part of the military, merely helping them to keep us safe. On the other hand, though I personally think we are not, if you think of an auxiliary as "supplementary" or even (Gasp  ) "reserves," then the argument that we are part of the RM, IMHO, might have some weight to it... Of course, it's not our place to decide. The real decision lies with the USAF/Pentagon leadership.

I agree with Major Carrales. I am extremely proud of what we do in CAP, and whether or not we are bona-fide military has no bearing on that.

[Fubar]

Let's get technical for a minute. Technically speaking, we are the official auxiliary of the United States Air Force. Whether or not we are part of the military depends on your definition of the word "auxiliary."

If you want to get real technical, we're one of the USAF auxiliaries. We're not the only auxiliary the USAF utilizes.

[NCRblues]

Let's get technical for a minute. Technically speaking, we are the official auxiliary of the United States Air Force. Whether or not we are part of the military depends on your definition of the word "auxiliary."

I searched it, and came up with answers ranging from simply "Helping" or "Auxiliary person, thing, or group," to "additional; supplementary; reserve: i.e. an auxiliary police force," or "an organization allied with, but subsidiary to, a main body of restricted membership."

If you think of an auxiliary as "helpers," then no, we are not part of the military, merely helping them to keep us safe. On the other hand, though I personally think we are not, if you think of an auxiliary as "supplementary" or even (Gasp  ) "reserves," then the argument that we are part of the RM, IMHO, might have some weight to it... Of course, it's not our place to decide. The real decision lies with the USAF/Pentagon leadership.

I agree with Major Carrales. I am extremely proud of what we do in CAP, and whether or not we are bona-fide military has no bearing on that.

To bad we are only the USAF AUX. when on air force missions...so....

[DrJbdm]

Are or are we not part of the military is not a question we need to decide, that answer lies many pay grades above us. However here are my thoughts.

My Answer: It could be argued that we are depending on the nature of what we are doing. While operating on an Air Force Assigned Mission and while under the Air Force AD&D Insurance and Federal Tort protections, we are deemed to be an instrumentality of the U.S. Govt...read that as Air Force, with a paygrade of GS-7. However, we are not held accountable under the UCMJ.

Personal Opinion: While operating under the umbrella of an Air Force Assigned Mission, we should be held accountable under the UCMJ. 

Personal Opinion: CAP is a part of the U.S. Air Force total force concept as the U.S. Air Force Aux. We could be considered the 4th family member within the Air Force Family....Active, Reserve, Guard, Auxiliary. That was expressed by an Asst Secretary of the Air Force and is rumored to be on his challenge coin.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Yes and no.

In a very technical sense, on paper, we are more directly part of the Air Force than the Air National Guard, since unless they are Federalized, the ANG comes under the control of their respective State Governor.  It's been said that the United States has 55 air forces - the active and reserve USAF, each state's ANG, D.C. ANG, Puerto Rico ANG (C-130's), and non-flying ANG units in Guam and the U.S. Virgin Islands.  We are always under the Federal structure, just as the active AF and AFRES are.

However, we are not military in the sense that we are not armed (depth charges on little yellow airplanes and airfield guards with M-1's in WWII notwithstanding).  We are not under the UCMJ.  We have officer ranks, but we are not actually commissioned officers.

We are more loosely akin to the British Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve (Training Branch), that oversees the Air Training Corps, except that their officers are paid and wear the exact same uniform as their RAF counterparts with VRT lapel/epaulette devices.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Air_Force_Volunteer_Reserve_%28Training_Branch%29

The USCG Auxiliary is both more and less "military" than we are - "more" in that they are a LOT more closely integrated with the Coast Guard than we are with the AF, and less in that they do not have ranks and do not render customs and courtesies to each other (though they do to military commissioned and warrant officers).

We would be nearer to something like the U.S. Public Health Service or the NOAA Commissioned Corps - uniformed (they wear a very slightly modified USN uniform), but not under the UCMJ except in very limited circumstances; i.e., USPHS personnel providing medical support to the USCG.  Both also have their own system of ribbons and medals, like we do.

If it sounds kind of schizoid...it's because it is.

[DrJbdm]

We would be nearer to something like the U.S. Public Health Service or the NOAA Commissioned Corps - uniformed (they wear a very slightly modified USN uniform), but not under the UCMJ except in very limited circumstances; i.e., USPHS personnel providing medical support to the USCG.  Both also have their own system of ribbons and medals, like we do.

   That is probably the best example or description of what we are then anything I have heard before.

[JArvey]

I think GTCommando hit the nose, it depends on the definition of auxiliary.

[RRLE]

Since someone else mentioned the USCG Auxiliary, their ID clearly states it is a nonmilitary ID and it carries the Geneva convention wording as to their status.

The USCG Auxiliary Manual (AuxMan) is The Bible for the Aux and is issued under the authority of the Commandant of the USCG. It clearly places the Aux on the civilian side of the USCG. A few years ago I posted an article on an Auxie board that listed more then a dozen statements in the AuxMan that Auxies are civilians and/or not military/law enforcement.

I am surprised there is no such statement(s) in CAP regulations, especially those from the USAF.

If injured on duty, both CAP and Auxies are treated as GS (civilian) employees - not military members.

The term 'military' is not used for def intion purposes in the US Code. There are 5 "Armed Services" and 7 "Uniformed Services", which includes the Armed Services. Being a employee or volunteer of an Armed Service organization does not make you military - just ask any of the civilian employees of the armed services.

[flyboy53]

The key is how you worded it. Part of the military -- yes certainly, the original federal law made CAP the Air Force's "official" auxiliary. The most recent made the CAP the Air Force's Auxiliary only when performing Air Force Missions. I don't know how many times I've heard the CAP-Air Force Relationship as parent and child.

Also, consider the CAP-USAF side. The commander of CAP-USAF is, from the Air Force's standpoint, the real overall commander because from the DoD side he carries the title "Program Manager."

However, component of the military, no. I thought at one point I read that there seemed to be a movement to allign the CAP under the DAF Under Secretary for Reserve Affairs. If that is indeed true, then you will certainly see some differences in how this organization is viewed by it's parent service

[ßτε]

Also, consider the CAP-USAF side. The commander of CAP-USAF is, from the Air Force's standpoint, the real overall commander because from the DoD side he carries the title "Program Manager."

The commander of CAP-USAF commands USAF personnel and manages DOD employees only, not CAP members and not corporate employees at NHQ.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

However, component of the military, no. I thought at one point I read that there seemed to be a movement to allign the CAP under the DAF Under Secretary for Reserve Affairs. If that is indeed true, then you will certainly see some differences in how this organization is viewed by it's parent service

I have cited that, though I didn't come up with it.

After WWII and up until 1968, Continental Air Command was an "umbrella" command that oversaw the Air National Guard (when Federalised) and the Air Force Reserve (which was mainly Troop Carrier Squadrons with C-119's then).  CAC also oversaw Civil Air Patrol.

This report from 1958 is instructive, and also triggers bittersweet nostalgia for me for a time past (though I came into the world a few years later) when we knew who we were, and the Air Force knew who we were.

http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/1958_84D6E11DE1F58.pdf

So does this poster:



There was just the Civil Air Patrol - Auxiliary United States Air Force (as the seal worded it then).  No AUXON/AUXOFF, no dithering about "are we military or corporate."  We wore the AIR FORCE uniform AS IS, with our bits added.

:(sigh

But of course that's water over the dam.

I do wonder, though, if placing us under Air Force Reserve Command would strengthen our position with the Air Force more than it is now.

[RADIOMAN015]

CAP is not part of the military, but basically could be thought of as a civilian non profit subcontractor that performs certain missions for the Air Force and other federal (state) activities that the primary agency has decided are the most cost effective way of supporting those missions.  Overall the USAF has had very good experience with CAP support since WW II.

AF Instruction 10-2701, defines who we are in the eyes of the AF:
".........The Civil Air Patrol (CAP) is a Federally chartered non-profit corporation that may be utilized as a civilian volunteer auxiliary of the Air Force. The Secretary of the Air Force (SECAF) can employ the services of CAP in lieu of or to supplement Air Force resources to fulfill the non-combat programs and missions of the Air Force. Such services may include Air Force-assigned missions (AFAMs) in support of homeland security operations, consequence management, support to civilian law enforcement, and other civil support. Certain CAP cadet and aerospace educational programs may also be approved and assigned as Air Force non-combat missions. When performing Air Force-assigned programs and missions, CAP assets function as an auxiliary of the Air Force. CAP is not authorized to perform AFAMs outside of the territories of the United States and the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico without specific authorization.......".

I think the key issue is all our members have to keep a healthy prospective as to this relationship and not think we are military but yet not get totally civilian either as far as performing assigned operational missions.  Sort of like a hybrid military, perhaps that's what auxiliary in this context means.

Also under the new DOD directive the MARS (radio) programs also become auxiliaries to their respective services.   There are MARS HF/SSB stations throughout the United States that provide operational phone patch support to Air Force operational aircraft. 
RM   

[Eclipse]

Your response doesn't even agree with itself.   

[RADIOMAN015]

Your response doesn't even agree with itself.   

Well as you know even CAP organizationally is confused about this, depending upon who you talk to.  As others have stated it all gets down as to your definition of "auxiliary".    I really don't think from an operational aspect the AF really cares how our personnel look like or what uniform they wear (or whether CAP members are saluting or marching in circles to some fantasy land para military obsession) as long as the mission(s) we are given are successfully executed.   Since the AF is our primary funding source, the correct answer is referring back to the USAF regulation.   We are a "civilian" auxiliary that supports the US Air Force in various missions that we are called upon by them to perform.  This could include assistance to other federal, state, & local agencies. 

So in the end we are civilian unpaid volunteers that help the Air Force.
RM