So what say you about the new slogan unveiled today?: "More than meets the skies"
My initial feeling is we could have done better, but the trouble is that I can't think of anything significantly better myself.
Thanks to Midway 6 for the commentary (http://capblog.typepad.com/capblog/2007/08/more-than-meets.html).
My thoughts?
I expect that in about 3 years our tagline will be "if you got money, we got planes"
I dunno, maybe there's a greater purpose. Maybe execs that give money to the organization get tickled when they see these cutesy little phrases on a pamphlet. Well above my pay grade.
YGTBFSM! This is a joke, right?
It's short and to the point and is expressing the ideas of the surveys conducted (it is thus, data driven)
The tag line addresses the issue that most folks don't know what we are and, those that do, think we are a purely a flying organization when only some 10 percent of actual CAP members have anything directly to do with flying (Greenhut & Courter).
It shows that we are a CIVIL AIR PATROL, but also have many other facets. The video they showed explained it all.
The main goal is to portray CAP as a community service organization that has major ties to its service to the USAF.
In order for the organization to grow, we must appeal to all elements. How many times have we heard promises made to new and prospective members that cannot come through.
Yes, the flying is important and the MISSIONS are paramount...but Cadets cannot do them as flyers. Most people see CIVIL AIR PATROL and say "I'm not a pilot," I can't contribute.
"More than meets the Skies" says it all. We are a force multiplier of US air resources, but are much more. Instead of trying to make an organization to "fit a slogan" a slogan was created to fit the organization.
It's quite simply one of the stupidest taglines I've ever heard.
The fact that it's origins are an 80's kids cartoon makes it even worse.
Is the goal for us to be viewed as a professional organization or continue to be viewed as "Barney Fife"? Because this tagline accomplishes the latter.
This is a problem we've had for a while - having a decent brand mantra that describes such a diverse organization. "Missions for America" had a nice ring/feeling to it, but wasn't very descriptive. "Where imagination takes flight" wasn't that spectacular either. Also, this has sort of a recruiting feel to it...it doesn't feel like something that would be right, for instance, on the top of our fact sheets. ::shrug::
I like Guy Kawasaki's perspective on the "brand mantra." (http://blog.guykawasaki.com/2006/06/the_art_of_the_.html)
Quote from: A.Member on August 10, 2007, 04:51:48 AM
It's quite simply one of the stupidest taglines I've ever heard.
The fact that it's origins are an 80's kids cartoon makes it even worse.
Is the goal for us to be viewed as a professional organization or continue to be viewed as "Barney Fife"? Because this tagline accomplishes the latter.
No, the goal of CAP is to be relevant to the Communities, States and Nations they serve...that includes the USAF. If ours is to be an organization that accompishes its Missions and has the synergy to keep the momentum going, then we are going to have to have a marketing plan that brands us to the communities from whence cometh the membership.
"America's Best kept Secret" did not accomplish that because it displays us as an invisible force, exactally the opposite of what is desired.
"Where imagination takes flight" Images of Ralph Phillips day dreaming in class. And say very little.
"Preforming Missions for America" was sort of a buzz phrase, however, what does that mean? It does not have substance. Again, it says, "We need pilots to fly missions," and what? Others need not apply?
"More than meets the skies" takes our name...Civil
Air Patrol...which already brings to mind imagery of flying missions, but adds all the community service, cadet programs and aerospace education to show that we are more than that. That there is a place for volunteers.
Yes, the flying MUST always be there, but there is more.
Quote from: JC004 on August 10, 2007, 05:27:05 AM
This is a problem we've had for a while - having a decent brand mantra that describes such a diverse organization. "Missions for America" had a nice ring/feeling to it, but wasn't very descriptive. "Where imagination takes flight" wasn't that spectacular either. Also, this has sort of a recruiting feel to it...it doesn't feel like something that would be right, for instance, on the top of our fact sheets. ::shrug::
Correct, our goal is to reach out to people. Only 10 percent of American's polled/surveyed knew was CAP was (Courter Aug 2007) of those, only a fraction of that considered CAP something that contributed positively to the community (Courter & Greenhut Aug 2007).
All poor a score, in communities where we have made finds and saved lives. That is the importance of good marketing. The Scouts and American Red Cross, great sister organizations, have great PR and are household names. We need to rate that.
The PAO academy was the first stage in that process...the rest us up to us all.
If a tree falls in the forest and no one heard it did it make a sound?
If an aircraft falls in a forest and we make a miraculous save, and know one knows...are we relevant to people in the community?
Please don't get hung up on the taglines...the true purpose is getting the word out.
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 10, 2007, 05:27:33 AM
Quote from: A.Member on August 10, 2007, 04:51:48 AM
It's quite simply one of the stupidest taglines I've ever heard.
The fact that it's origins are an 80's kids cartoon makes it even worse.
Is the goal for us to be viewed as a professional organization or continue to be viewed as "Barney Fife"? Because this tagline accomplishes the latter.
No, the goal of CAP is to be relevant to the Communities, States and Nations they serve...that includes the USAF. If ours is to be an organization that accompishes its Missions and has the synergy to keep the momentum going, then we are going to have to have a marketing plan that brands us to the communities from whence cometh the membership.
"America's Best kept Secret" did not accomplish that because it displays us as an invisible force, exactally the opposite of what is desired.
"Where imagination takes flight" Images of Ralph Phillips day dreaming in class. And say very little.
"Preforming Missions for America" was sort of a buzz phrase, however, what does that mean? It does not have substance. Again, it says, "We need pilots to fly missions," and what? Others need not apply?
"More than meets the skies" takes our name...Civil Air Patrol...which already brings to mind imagery of flying missions, but adds all the community service, cadet programs and aerospace education to show that we are more than that. That there is a place for volunteers.
Yes, the flying MUST always be there, but there is more.
Not buying that at all. The tagline is pure crap and laughable at best.
As JC004 eluded to, it may be acceptable for a youth recruiting brochure but certainly nothing more.
Quote from: A.Member on August 10, 2007, 05:35:53 AM
Not buying that at all. The tagline is pure crap and laughable at best.
Please don't get hung up on the taglines...the true purpose is getting the word out.
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 10, 2007, 05:37:31 AM
Quote from: A.Member on August 10, 2007, 05:35:53 AM
Not buying that at all. The tagline is pure crap and laughable at best.
Please don't get hung up on the taglines...the true purpose is getting the word out.
I have no issues with getting the word out but that can be done without copying the tagline of a children's cartoon. It doesn't even really make any sense.
Its not even good english. Is there more than one "sky" ? How does one meet it? If there is more, what is it? "Missions for America" was at least more descriptive of what we are about. We can do better than that.
Quote from: SoCalCAPOfficer on August 10, 2007, 05:44:13 AM
Its not even good english. Is there more than one "sky" ? How does one meet it? If there is more, what is it? "Missions for America" was at least more descriptive of what we are about. We can do better than that.
My sky is better than your sky. :P
Quote from: A.Member on August 10, 2007, 05:42:31 AM
I have no issues with getting the word out but that can be done without copying the tagline of a children's cartoon.
Listen, no tag line is going to satisfy everyone, just swallow it...do your job well and let that speak for us.
The Marketing plan is great...the Brigadier General is behind it and knows what she is talking about as well as a lot of other Professionals both in and out of CAP. That is why I am so adamant about this, I was there are saw what is planned and, believe you me, it will work.
Quote from: SoCalCAPOfficer on August 10, 2007, 05:44:13 AM
Its not even good english. Is there more than one "sky" ?
I don't know...ask Katherine Lee Bates who wrote in 1893
Oh, beautiful for spacious skies,
For amber waves of grain.
For purple mountain majesties,
above the fruited plain.
America, America,
God shed His grace on thee.
And crown thy good with brother hood,
from sea to shining sea.QuoteHow does one meet it?
How does one "meet a dealine?"
QuoteIf there is more, what is it? "Missions for America" was at least more descriptive of what we are about.
Look...a Mission for America...
(http://www.legendsofamerica.com/photos-texas/Alamo-500.jpg)
Here's another...
(http://www.houstonculture.org/imgtrav/missanjuancap.jpg)
What has that to do with us?
QuoteWe can do better than that.
Really? Let's hear it?
Anymore specious arguments? ;)
All joking aside, it's a tagline...the Plan is good. Any tagline can be ridiculed and will be. Please, move beyond this ancillary point and hit the meet of the Plan.
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 10, 2007, 05:46:02 AM
Quote from: A.Member on August 10, 2007, 05:42:31 AM
I have no issues with getting the word out but that can be done without copying the tagline of a children's cartoon.
Listen, no tag line is going to satisfy everyone, just swallow it...do your job well and let that speak for us.
The Marketing plan is great...the Brigadier General is behind it and knows what she is talking about as well as a lot of other Professionals both in and out of CAP. That is why I am so adamant about this, I was there are saw what is planned and, believe you me, it will work.
Brother, with all due respect, I'm not going to "just swallow it". It's stupid! The fact that you're trying to sit here and explain it should tell you as much.
We're not talking about "the plan" here. We're talking about the tagline. And if the use of that tagline is part of the plan, then that portion of the plan needs to be reworked - regardless of who is behind it. It's as simple as that.
Quote from: A.Member on August 10, 2007, 06:03:02 AM
We're not talking about "the plan" here. We're talking about the tagline. And if the use of that tagline is part of the plan, then that portion of the plan needs to be reworked - regardless of who is behind it. It's as simple as that.
Have it your way...we have reached an end here. Your opinion is noted.
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 10, 2007, 06:48:13 AM
Have it your way... </snip>
(http://www.customdogs.co.uk/web-content/images/thumbs/quick_burgur.gif)
(a good slogan btw)
Quote from: JC004 on August 10, 2007, 06:58:58 AM
(http://www.customdogs.co.uk/web-content/images/thumbs/quick_burgur.gif)
(a good slogan btw)
No, have it your whey!
(http://www.hirepgym.com/images/performance/pure-whey.gif)
See, any tagline can be bashed.
^^ but in the end, Burger King still has triple Whoppers and that is outstanding :)
Quote from: JC004 on August 10, 2007, 07:05:01 AM
^^ but in the end, Burger King still has triple Whoppers and that is outstanding :)
The Triple Whopper is yet another reason we must bolster our Military. Bin Laden fears the Triple Whopper and will stop at nothing to see its demise. Local vegan, Bert, of Sesame Street fame, has joined to put an end to it...
(http://www.xsorbit27.com/users5/unifiedveteranscoalition/images/osama_bin_laden_bert_is_evil.jpg)
^^ Bin Laden also has a well thought-out slogan: "Death to America"
He isn't very nice, but his slogan properly explains his purpose. Now I will go back to trying to find some Transformers toys so I can dress them up in little CAP uniforms.
Coming from a non-flying squadron (we have no plane, no pilots...and we have to beg o-rides from the flying squadron pilots) then the "More than meets the skies" slogan makes sense. Yes, it is a bit cheesey but I can see it working from the standpoint of a squadron where ES and Ground Team training is what we specialize in. Not all squadrons fly...not all squadrons have pilots. This slogan gives the U.S. a chance to see that we do more than fly.
So it would appear it wasn't just me who thought of Transformers when I heard the tag line.
You have failed me again Starscream - Megatron
Yes, not many CAP members fly, but almost everything we do is about flying and aerospace in one way or another.
SO who is going to be OPTIMUS PRIME? I vote for TP! He has already transformed into something these past few days!
Quote from: MIKE on August 10, 2007, 12:10:10 PM
So it would appear it wasn't just me thought of Transformers when I heard the tag line.
You have failed me again Starscream - Megatron
Nope, it wasn't just you.
Of course, now I guess we get to make up our own lines:
Optimus Prime: Skylane, fly out and attack with the Archer System!
(A white robot leaps into the air and transforms into a C-182)
Megatron: Decepticons, Retreat!!
It's a fine recruiting slogan, if the attempt is to get more non-aviation minded folks in CAP.
It's not a particularly good slogan for marketing to our customers, as our primary operation asset IS aviation, and our cadet program has a strong aviation slant.
I guess it all depends on who the target audience is.
I don't care what all you naysayers think...
"More than meets the skies" is still better than:
1. Army Strong.
2. The Army of One.
3. Cross Into the Blue.
4. Be All You Can Be.
It is not as good as:
1. It's not a job, its an adventure.
2. The Marine Corps commercial where they compared the making of Marines to the forging of a steel sabre.
I'll give the new slogan a C+ or maybe a B if the right advertising media accompany it.
I don't know, "Be all you can be" was a pretty darn good slogan in my book and seemed to work pretty well for a lot of years. Made a good jingle too.
Army Strong isn't all that good by itself, but they've got an AWESOME long-format commercial http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSbCnWe6e1o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSbCnWe6e1o) that really makes the slogan seem good (very motivating music too --- sound like it might be from a movie, but I can't place it).
By the way, I'm not getting the Transformers refernce. Was "More than meets the skies" used in the movie?
Quote from: RiverAux on August 10, 2007, 02:33:18 PM
By the way, I'm not getting the Transformers refernce. Was "More than meets the skies" used in the movie?
Wikipedia:
After the Federal Communications Commission did away with regulations that prohibited toy companies from broadcasting cartoons based on their products in 1984, The Transformers began with a three-episode miniseries (later titled More Than Meets the Eye) that introduced audiences to Optimus Prime, Megatron and their armies...
Quote from: Psicorp on August 10, 2007, 01:38:35 PM
Quote from: MIKE on August 10, 2007, 12:10:10 PM
So it would appear it wasn't just me thought of Transformers when I heard the tag line.
You have failed me again Starscream - Megatron
Nope, it wasn't just you.
Of course, now I guess we get to make up our own lines:
Optimus Prime: Skylane, fly out and attack with the Archer System!
(A white robot leaps into the air and transforms into a C-182)
Megatron: Decepticons, Retreat!!
I'm willing to bet that's what the majority of the people under age 40 will think of. As such, is it an effective tagline when the first thing you think of is the Transformers? No.
And to an earlier point, we do have more missions and do other things but everything we do is related to and in support of aviation/aerospace activites. It's even in our name...we are the Civil
Air Patrol.
What we need more than a bunch of silly taglines is a documented strategic vision for the organization.
Quote from: JC004 on August 10, 2007, 02:35:06 PM
Quote from: RiverAux on August 10, 2007, 02:33:18 PM
By the way, I'm not getting the Transformers refernce. Was "More than meets the skies" used in the movie?
Wikipedia:
After the Federal Communications Commission did away with regulations that prohibited toy companies from broadcasting cartoons based on their products in 1984, The Transformers began with a three-episode miniseries (later titled More Than Meets the Eye) that introduced audiences to Optimus Prime, Megatron and their armies...
I'm glad that someone else wondered about the Transformers' connection! I came of age when "Johnny Quest, Raji and Bandit" were soaring the "skies!!!"
I dare say that More Than Meets the Eye has been around as a phrase a lot longer then the '80's!
Tags - MIKE
Quick! Can anybody give the Boy Scout's current recruiting slogan/tagline?
According to my "sources", the slogan that did not make the cut was: "It's a bird...it's a plane...it's C-A-....nah it's a bird". ;D
Quote from: RiverAux on August 10, 2007, 03:02:41 PM
Quick! Can anybody give the Boy Scout's current recruiting slogan/tagline?
I think, translated into Latin, it's
SEMPER PARATUS.
No, thats the motto just like CAP's is Always Vigilant. I'm talking about what they put on advertising to attract people to join.
RA is correct...
Always Vigilant is our motto.
More Than Meets The Skies is the new tagline.
Me, I miss "Eyes of the homeland skies."
- M6
Sorry, River. I ain't been a Boy Scout in fifty years or a little more. My old council is defunct and the records are lost. They do good work, but believe it or not, there is substantial political manuevering among the upper level scouters (adults). I looked into it when Tony canned me in Florida, but I decided that I had had enough politics for a while. I was already in the Auxiliary, so I stayed in.
Quote from: DogCollar on August 10, 2007, 02:56:00 PM
...
I dare say that More Than Meets the Eye has been around as a phrase a lot longer then the '80's!
That is certainly true, but with the timing of the recent Transformers movie release, everyone is pointing to that after the debut of this slogan (except, of course, those people who missed out on the great cartoons of the 80's).
Quote from: JC004 on August 10, 2007, 03:44:06 PM
Quote from: DogCollar on August 10, 2007, 02:56:00 PM
...
I dare say that More Than Meets the Eye has been around as a phrase a lot longer then the '80's!
That is certainly true, but with the timing of the recent Transformers movie release, everyone is pointing to that after the debut of this slogan (except, of course, those people who missed out on the great cartoons of the 80's).
I've GOTTA get a life! The Transformers came out as a movie????
I'll take your word for it that the cartoons were great. I was in college and seminary and starting my career in the '80's.
Will someone please give me advanced warning if Rock'em Sock'em Robots is made into a movie? I wouldn't want to miss that! ;)
I guess I've got to get a life. I haven't been paying attention...the Transformers' came out as a movie? I never saw the '80's cartoon, so will take your word that they were great. Anyway...gotta go play with my Matchbox Cars and Rock'em Sock'm Robots! ; )
Quote from: DogCollar on August 10, 2007, 03:59:20 PM
I've GOTTA get a life! The Transformers came out as a movie????
I'll take your word for it that the cartoons were great. I was in college and seminary and starting my career in the '80's.
Will someone please give me advanced warning if Rock'em Sock'em Robots is made into a movie? I wouldn't want to miss that! ;)
It's a movie that every chaplain should see (I guess - I didn't see it).
Quote from: JC004 on August 10, 2007, 03:44:06 PM
Quote from: DogCollar on August 10, 2007, 02:56:00 PM
...
I dare say that More Than Meets the Eye has been around as a phrase a lot longer then the '80's!
That is certainly true, but with the timing of the recent Transformers movie release, everyone is pointing to that after the debut of this slogan (except, of course, those people who missed out on the great cartoons of the 80's).
I've GOTTA get a life! The Transformers came out as a movie????
I'll take your word for it that the cartoons were great. I was in college and seminary and starting my career in the '80's.
Will someone please give me advanced warning if Rock'em Sock'em Robots is made into a movie? I wouldn't want to miss that! ;)
Wow...a combination of version 1 and version 2. Sorry about that folks.
There are now two Transformers movies...the first one was a cartoon movie (feature length) and the most recent was a "live action"...tons of CGI.
Lots of good vs evil, the saving of humanity through personal sacrifice, creationism...all kinds of classic overtones ;)
I actually think more than meets the skys is interesting because it translates back to more than you can expect. If we advertise ourselves as something we are not, people will join, but when they figure it out, they will quit and that is worse than if they never joined at all. The slogan is vague because it is telling potential members that we are more than meets the sky. There is more than flying and airplanes. There is an entire world of CAP out there. Come to check that out if you want to learn more. Then it is up to the rest of us to honestly tell the recruit what CAP is all about and hopefully hook them.
This is actual a simple concept the city of Fargo, ND does to market itself. Their slogan is Fargo- More than you can expect. Now to those of us who live in Fargo we are like what the pot!! What does this mean?? It actually means that most people think of Fargo as a small iceberg in the middle of a frozen farm field with nothing to do and no where to go. When the convention bureau markets Fargo, they must find a way to overcome that expectation. Now instead of saying Fargo is a little Minneapolis and we have all of the things they offer, we say Fargo is more than you can expect. That way, when someone comes here and sees the downtown area, restaurants, hotels, and all the amenities that Fargo does have- it is indeed more than they expected and they leave with a good feeling instead of this crappy little town didn't have anything I was looking for.
Now apply this to CAPs new tag line- More than meets the skys!!
Quote from: LtCol Hooligan on August 10, 2007, 04:37:55 PM
This is actual a simple concept the city of Fargo, ND...
Where?
Just playin' >:D
You mean Fargo is not six houses, two bars and a gas station in the midst of a desolate prairie?
"More than meets the skies" ? How long til Hasbro sues us? This strikes me as a bad idea. I'm not going to tell anyone about this one.
Quote from: Hawk200 on August 10, 2007, 04:46:57 PM
"More than meets the skies" ? How long til Hasbro sues us? This strikes me as a bad idea. I'm not going to tell anyone about this one.
The phrase, "There's more to it than meets the eye..." is not patented or trademarked or whatever... it is similar to, "more [insert whatever] than you can shake a stick at"
They could say that it is shortened and modified from that, not from "Transformers...more than meets the eye..."
(I always thought it was "Transformers...robots in disguise...") I guess I should get my hearing checked :)
...So, I'm tendin' bar there at Ecklund and Swedlin's last Tuesday and this little guy's drinkin' and he says, "So where can a guy find some action? I'm goin' crazy out there at the lake." And I says, "What kinda action?" and he says, "Woman action, what do I look like?" And I says, "Well, what do I look like, I don't arrange that kinda thing," and he says, "I'm goin' crazy out there at the lake," and I says, "Well, this ain't that kinda place." Den, some big robotty feller with no face came up and smacked the bejeebus out of some pilots guys at the tables, and he says that they stole their slogan. "More than meets these guys" or somethin like that.
Ya, I don't know much about that.
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 10, 2007, 05:51:38 AM
Quote from: SoCalCAPOfficer on August 10, 2007, 05:44:13 AM
Its not even good english. Is there more than one "sky" ?
I don't know...ask Katherine Lee Bates who wrote in 1893
Oh, beautiful for spacious skies,
For amber waves of grain.
For purple mountain majesties,
above the fruited plain.
America, America,
God shed His grace on thee.
And crown thy good with brother hood,
from sea to shining sea.
QuoteHow does one meet it?
How does one "meet a dealine?"
QuoteIf there is more, what is it? "Missions for America" was at least more descriptive of what we are about.
Look...a Mission for America...
(http://www.legendsofamerica.com/photos-texas/Alamo-500.jpg)
Here's another...
(http://www.houstonculture.org/imgtrav/missanjuancap.jpg)
What has that to do with us?
QuoteWe can do better than that.
Really? Let's hear it?
Anymore specious arguments? ;)
All joking aside, it's a tagline...the Plan is good. Any tagline can be ridiculed and will be. Please, move beyond this ancillary point and hit the meet of the Plan.
Excellent comeback Major Carrales. I enjoyed it very much. However, I will never warm up to "more than meets the skies" . You wanted something better from me, how about
"Citizens Accepting the Challenge to Safeguard America"
Quote from: Dragoon on August 10, 2007, 01:39:47 PM
It's a fine recruiting slogan, if the attempt is to get more non-aviation minded folks in CAP.
It's not a particularly good slogan for marketing to our customers, as our primary operation asset IS aviation, and our cadet program has a strong aviation slant.
I guess it all depends on who the target audience is.
The marketing to our customers does not hinge on this tagline. In fact, the PAOs are to function on the concept that all PUBLIC AFFAIRS are local. Thus, the Marketing to our customers is hinged on establishing relationships with State and Local entities...not merely contact, but a "relationship."
We have several groups that are customers. Being that we are a service based organization, we have 1) the USAF, 2) State and Local Entitites, 3) The communities and 4) our Membership.
The key is, not so much the tagline, but rather execute the missions well and then let folks know what we do.
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 10, 2007, 04:59:36 PM
Quote from: Dragoon on August 10, 2007, 01:39:47 PM
It's a fine recruiting slogan, if the attempt is to get more non-aviation minded folks in CAP.
It's not a particularly good slogan for marketing to our customers, as our primary operation asset IS aviation, and our cadet program has a strong aviation slant.
I guess it all depends on who the target audience is.
The marketing to our customers does not hinge on this tagline. In fact, the PAOs are to function on the concept that all PUBLIC AFFAIRS are local. Thus, the Marketing to our customers is hinged on establishing relationships with State and Local entities...not merely contact, but a "relationship."
We have several groups that are customers. Being that we are a service based organization, we have 1) the USAF, 2) State and Local Entitites, 3) The communities and 4) our Membership.
The key is, not so much the tagline, but rather execute the missions well and then let folks know what we do.
Then we wouldn't need a tagline.....
Quote from: SoCalCAPOfficer on August 10, 2007, 04:57:48 PM
Excellent comeback Major Carrales. I enjoyed it very much. However, I will never warm up to "more than meets the skies" . You wanted something better from me, how about
"Citizens Accepting the Challenge to Safeguard America"
Please understand that was mostly in jest. Your tagline is excellent, run it up the chain and see if it makes the next cut. ;D
Quote from: jimmydeanno on August 10, 2007, 04:49:30 PM
The phrase, "There's more to it than meets the eye..." is not patented or trademarked or whatever... it is similar to, "more [insert whatever] than you can shake a stick at"
You may really have something there. I'm sure we can think of a lot of things to put in the "[insert whatever]" part. ;)
Quote from: LtCol Hooligan on August 10, 2007, 04:37:55 PM
It actually means that most people think of Fargo as a small iceberg in the middle of a frozen farm field with nothing to do and no where to go.
Uh, hate to say it, but that's exactly what Fargo is. :)
Quote from: jimmydeanno on August 10, 2007, 04:49:30 PM
(I always thought it was "Transformers...robots in disguise...") I guess I should get my hearing checked :)
IIRC, the robots in disguise came after the more than meets the eye bit... And having the sky bit at the end ties it to the disguise line, when I think of it anyway.
Quote from: A.Member on August 10, 2007, 05:07:22 PM
Quote from: LtCol Hooligan on August 10, 2007, 04:37:55 PM
It actually means that most people think of Fargo as a small iceberg in the middle of a frozen farm field with nothing to do and no where to go.
Uh, hate to say it, but that's exactly what Fargo is. :)
Fargo was a movie, it had William H. Macy in it, it's also a town in the Dakotas (REUNIFICATON NOW!).
^ was that the movie with the wood chipper and endless murder?
Quote from: mikeylikey on August 10, 2007, 05:37:19 PM
^ was that the movie with the wood chipper and endless murder?
Ya you betcha. We get on oar snowmobiles in August to get to dat der lake and catch me some Wallay. Dem der good eatin ya know.
Bunch of legal jiggy-jack here, but...
http://www.transformertoys.co.uk/transformers-trademarks.php
I don't think they could do anything about a parody - intentional or unintentional - anyway. I would think that maybe those involved in these decisions don't know what Transformers are... maybe even think a "Transformer" is some kind of deviant [sic] lifestyle choice.
-Ace
Quote from: LtCol Hooligan on August 10, 2007, 07:37:11 PM
Quote from: mikeylikey on August 10, 2007, 05:37:19 PM
^ was that the movie with the wood chipper and endless murder?
Ya you betcha. We get on oar snowmobiles in August to get to dat der lake and catch me some Wallay. Dem der good eatin ya know.
Don't mind mikey. He hasn't had his medicine yet today.
Isn't this thread going to get locked too because of the ethnic slurs and racial epithets regarding members living in the northern wings?
A Cuban-Norwegian once said... "Hey Lucy... yAH wannAH gOH to dAH bOHat shOHw?" Hey, if we can't handle making fun of minorities, should we really be making fun of majorities? I am being facetious here, 'cause I'm not that PC.
-Ace
MinnAHsOHta Wing
(has never had lutafisk)
Quote from: alamrcn on August 10, 2007, 08:03:14 PM
Isn't this thread going to get locked too because of the ethnic slurs and racial epithets regarding members living in the northern wings?
A Cuban-Norwegian once said... "Hey Lucy... yew wanna gOH to da bOHat shOHw?" Hey, if we can't handle making fun of minorities, should we really be making fun of majorities? I am being facetious here, 'cause I'm not that PC.
-Ace
MinnasOHta Wing
(has never had lutafisk)
Absolutely correct. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. Really, such issues don't contribute to the original crux of the thread...the tag line.
I still like the idea of just snagging:
"Civil Air Patrol: America's Hometown Air Force"
Quote from: Pylon on August 10, 2007, 08:19:01 PM
I still like the idea of just snagging:
"Civil Air Patrol: America's Hometown Air Force"
If we can steal it back, I'm all for it!
Quote from: Pylon on August 10, 2007, 08:19:01 PM
I still like the idea of just snagging:
"Civil Air Patrol: America's Hometown Air Force"
Good - and with the fine print
"But we don't like UAVs"
You realize that the Air Force is in a world of trouble. The Army Air Corps wants their song back.
"...And nothing can stop the Army Aviation Corps?"
Nah... don't fit.
Tell the Air Force to relax.
Besides... why would the Army sing about the "Wild blue yonder" when they never get more than 10 feet over the trees?
Army pilots have to go on oxygen above 1000 feet msl.
QuoteArmy pilots have to go on oxygen above 1000 feet msl.
Better than the Marines. We have to raise the gear to descend to cruising altitude.
Quote from: Pylon on August 10, 2007, 08:19:01 PM
I still like the idea of just snagging:
"Civil Air Patrol: America's Hometown Air Force"
Wasn't that snagged from CAP to begin with?
It was used in an article about CAP in an Air Force magazine (maybe they've got that copywrite). I haven't actually seen it in any old CAP literature to suggest it was any sort of official slogan/tagline, etc.
Quote from: JC004 on August 10, 2007, 04:20:37 AM
So what say you about the new slogan unveiled today?: "More than meets the skies"
My initial feeling is we could have done better, but the trouble is that I can't think of anything significantly better myself.
Thanks to Midway 6 for the commentary (http://capblog.typepad.com/capblog/2007/08/more-than-meets.html).
Will we now be divided into autobots and decepticons?
^ Or "Only one major embarrassment every three years" That should get people to join!
Quote from: mikeylikey on August 11, 2007, 04:55:29 PM
^ Or "Only one major embarrassment every three years" That should get people to join!
Or... "Join Us and Get a Whole New Wardrobe"...
Quote from: jaybird512 on August 11, 2007, 08:33:24 PM
Quote from: mikeylikey on August 11, 2007, 04:55:29 PM
^ Or "Only one major embarrassment every three years" That should get people to join!
Or... "Join Us and Get a Whole New Wardrobe"...
Twice a year.
Quote from: Skyray on August 11, 2007, 08:48:37 PM
Quote from: jaybird512 on August 11, 2007, 08:33:24 PM
Quote from: mikeylikey on August 11, 2007, 04:55:29 PM
^ Or "Only one major embarrassment every three years" That should get people to join!
Or... "Join Us and Get a Whole New Wardrobe"...
Twice a year.
Thanks... forgot that part.
Quote from: jaybird512 on August 11, 2007, 09:35:11 PM
Quote from: Skyray on August 11, 2007, 08:48:37 PM
Quote from: jaybird512 on August 11, 2007, 08:33:24 PM
Quote from: mikeylikey on August 11, 2007, 04:55:29 PM
^ Or "Only one major embarrassment every three years" That should get people to join!
Or... "Join Us and Get a Whole New Wardrobe"...
Twice a year.
Thanks... forgot that part.
Not including yet unwritten, but approved changes (branch tape, etc.):
23 Mar 05 - CAP Uniform Manual
31 Aug 05 - CAP/CC Letter, Change to CAPM 39-1, Dark Blue Field Uniform Headgear
5 Dec 05 - CAP/CC Letter, Change to CAPM 39-1, Wear of the American Flag on BDUs and Field Uniforms
15 Mar 06 - CAP/CC Letter, Changes to CAPM 39-1, CAP Uniform Manual
29 Jun 06 - CAP/CC Letter, Civil Air Patrol Corporate Uniform
1 Aug 06 - CAP/CC Letter, Civil Air Patrol Corporate Service Coat
5 Sep 06 - CAP/CC Letter, Civil Air Patrol Corporate Service Coat
20 Nov 06 - CAP/CC Letter, Change to CAPM 39-1, CAP Uniforms
If you want to get technical, most of those ICLs have been invalidated by the change to CAPR 5-4.
Quote from: MIKE on August 12, 2007, 12:06:05 AM
If you want to get technical, most of those ICLs have been invalidated by the change to CAPR 5-4.
"working to get it into regulation" isn't a real helpful stance by NHQ, either...agh
As much as a fan of the original Transformers are I personally am not to crazy about using this. It's campy in the modern day. I think we need to come up with something much, mucher, cooler.
I think it is extremely possible that they came up with this without having any idea of the Transformers connection.
Was this expression started with the transformers or did they just adopt it?
"Finding themselves on a strange new planet, the autobots and decepticons board Cessna 172s on their way to mission base..."
"Upon arrival Optimus Prime calls in his Capflight and is overheard by Megatron..."
"The battle that ensues forces Bumblebee and Starscream to duel until overpowered by reenforcements from Shockwave..."
Quote from: RiverAux on August 12, 2007, 02:09:34 AM
I think it is extremely possible that they came up with this without having any idea of the Transformers connection.
Was this expression started with the transformers or did they just adopt it?
Doesn't matter. If that's what people are associating it to now (and many clearly are), that's what matters.
Quote from: A.Member on August 12, 2007, 05:17:29 AM
Quote from: RiverAux on August 12, 2007, 02:09:34 AM
I think it is extremely possible that they came up with this without having any idea of the Transformers connection.
Was this expression started with the transformers or did they just adopt it?
Doesn't matter. If that's what people are associating it to now (and many clearly are), that's what matters.
just really, really terrible timing
Can't claim to be terribly happy with it....on the other hand, who remembers "Eyes of the Home Skies" anymore??
Assuming anyone knew it in the first place!
Somone ought to collect all these CAP marketing tags of the past 15-20 years and put them to music....maybe a rap, or something country!
Quote from: jaybird512 on August 12, 2007, 03:51:41 AM
"Finding themselves on a strange new planet, the autobots and decepticons board Cessna 172s on their way to mission base..."
"Upon arrival Optimus Prime calls in his Capflight and is overheard by Megatron..."
"The battle that ensues forces Bumblebee and Starscream to duel until overpowered by reenforcements from Shockwave..."
Ok, now you must be punished. LET THE FLOGGING BEGIN!
Quote from: RiverAux on August 12, 2007, 02:09:34 AM
I think it is extremely possible that they came up with this without having any idea of the Transformers connection.
Was this expression started with the transformers or did they just adopt it?
I just can't believe a CAP member would come up with it. I bet there's an Ad/PR Agency laughing all the way to the bank... with our money.
I'm going to try to convince myself that this slogan finally pays homage to the ground-pounders..that CAP is more than a bunch of zipper-suited Sungods.
Who am I kidding?
I agree with you there. I'm a member of a non-flying squadron (we have no pilots, no planes...have to beg o-rides from the good ol' boys club squadrons that are all pilots...and it doesn't work out very well). We specialize in ES and ground team. I'm really proud of that...but I do love to fly.
Anyone want to guess how hard it is to train to be an observer or scanner without a plane or pilots in your squadron? I was actually told this by a pilot of a pilot's club squadron: "O-rides are for cadets. SM's of non-flying squadrons do not get rides, thus they need no training in observer/scanner areas."
ummm... i'm not bitter...really i'm not. see, i'm smiling. ;D
This week's uniform change has been announced:
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa229/jaybird512/newcapuniform.jpg)
Officers will have a choice between the Autobot blues or the Decepticon greys. Ties are still optional.
And here's the new CAP Command Patch:
...mandatory wear date of March 2051.
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa229/jaybird512/newcaplogo.jpg)
Love that "new" MAJCOM patch -- well done!
I attended the entire two-day PAO Academy and was present when the new marketing slogan and branding plan was announced.
No one made any reference to Transformers. I heard no unofficial comment or discussion either during the breaks or the social networking event. In fact, the first (and only) place I've seen the connection mentioned is here on CAPtalk.
Simply put, it wasn't brought up throughout the entire professional two-day meeting and training seminars. While "fun", I doubt it will be mentioned by most PAO's either.
Dr. Dave
Quote from: DrDave on August 12, 2007, 03:46:37 PM
Love that "new" MAJCOM patch -- well done!
I attended the entire two-day PAO Academy and was present when the new marketing slogan and branding plan was announced.
No one made any reference to Transformers. I heard no unofficial comment or discussion either during the breaks or the social networking event. In fact, the first (and only) place I've seen the connection mentioned is here on CAPtalk.
Simply put, it wasn't brought up throughout the entire professional two-day meeting and training seminars. While "fun", I doubt it will be mentioned by most PAO's either.
Dr. Dave
I didn't even know it was changing until this thread. Was it announced beforehand and was it put out to the membership for suggestions? I would've tested it out here in the Captalk at a minimum since this seems to be the hangout for the largest nationwide audience. They need to clear these things through us. ;)
If the movie hadn't just come out it might not've mattered as much except for those of us who used to watch the original cartoon as kids. The timing was pretty bad and I actually thought it was a joke until I read more into this thread...
I don't think it is fair to use the Autobots emblem... Should use the Decepticons. >:D
Quote from: MIKE on August 12, 2007, 04:09:24 PM
I don't think it is fair to use the Autobots emblem... Should use the Decepticons. >:D
It is the Decepticons! (Already thought that one through...) ;)
My bad.
At least I finally found a good image for my sig...
How do I get my text to line up to the right of it?
You have to code it as a table... I'll send you it.
Had my wife stop short of looking at the computer and asked "Honey, what is the first thing that comes to mind when you hear 'More than meets the skies'" She thought for a moment, and said "Transformers" and then proceeded to sing the song! This could be a lot of fun. Stopping people in the streets and asking them their thoughts.
Quote from: MIKE on August 12, 2007, 04:19:23 PM
You have to code it as a table... I'll send you it.
Got it, thanks.
I am knew to CAP, but I do not think it is that bad of a slogan. The more I get involved in CAP the more I am finding out that there are a LOT of squadrons without planes, or even pilots. Those squadrons still do really good work, mostly ground team stuff and of course cadet training.
It is nice to recognize them and show that CAP IS more than just planes in the sky.
Quote from: LittleIronPilot on August 12, 2007, 04:47:51 PM
I am knew to CAP, but I do not think it is that bad of a slogan. The more I get involved in CAP the more I am finding out that there are a LOT of squadrons without planes, or even pilots. Those squadrons still do really good work, mostly ground team stuff and of course cadet training.
It is nice to recognize them and show that CAP IS more than just planes in the sky.
We're not knocking anybody or the work that they do, and more people have been pounding the ground than flying for decades. There are just a few of us who think we could've come up with our own slogan or at least field tested it a bit.
In some ways, it comes down to the fact that we recruit wrong. Instead of stressing the opportunity to mold young minds and attract them to careers in aviation and the military, much of the recruiting I have seen stresses "Free Flying." I think I was the only Cadet Orientation Pilot in my area who ever bothered to get out the manual and review the Cadet Orientation Syllabus and follow it. Most of my peers simply loaded three cadets in a 172 and signed off whatever flight they had next after boring holes in the sky for a while.
I'm also for field testing of items, whether proposed uniform changes, or policy changes (i.e. thankful for the standard review policy for proposed new CAP regulations).
As I understand it, this new marketing slogan is geared directly to the general public who, focus groups and surveys found, know very little about CAP and what they do know they almost completely attribute to our flying abilities and missions.
With only 10% of our membership actually involved in flying (as mentioned several times during the PAO Academy), this new marketing and branding campaign will try to also educate the public about all the other things we do.
Could they have come up with a different slogan? I dunno if I could have done any better, I'm not too snappy with these mental gymnastics and snappy "sound bites". (Plus my personal favorite of "Serve your country without getting shot at." seemed a little negative ...)
Plus it's now approved by the National Board, so full steam ahead.
How about a new topic where we suggest slogans? Could be fun, could be silly, but also could be possibly useful to unit PAO's and Recruiting and Retention Officers.
Dr. Dave
Quote from: DrDave on August 12, 2007, 03:46:37 PM
I attended the entire two-day PAO Academy and was present when the new marketing slogan and branding plan was announced.
No one made any reference to Transformers. I heard no unofficial comment or discussion either during the breaks or the social networking event. In fact, the first (and only) place I've seen the connection mentioned is here on CAPtalk.
How old are you and what was the average age of the people in the room? No answer needed. The point is that I'm sure most are well beyond the age to recognize Transformers (ie. disconnected from the "younger" members - less than ~40 years of age).
Sorry to tell you this boys, but those who remember the original Transformers are slowly slipping into the old guy category -- just had my 20th high school reunion last month!
Quote from: RiverAux on August 13, 2007, 02:41:33 AM
Sorry to tell you this boys, but those who remember the original Transformers are slowly slipping into the old guy category -- just had my 20th high school reunion last month!
...and I'm not too far behind you.
I remember my son playing with Transformers. I could never figure them out.
^ I remember a father of one of my friends who couldn't figure out the transformer either. He took it and smashed on the sidewalk. Needless to say that is one of those memories I wish I could forget.
I remember playing with Transformers. I had an Optimus Prime with the semi-trailer base and everything.
I still have most of my collection, bought them back when they were mostly metal with sharp edges ;D
I've seen every episode and own a lot of them. My brother had Optimus Prime, between the two of us, we had them all.
My father loved them...thus, we had the BIG stuff, like OMEGA SUPREME, TRIPTICON and MEXTOPLEX. We even have the Japanese Series translated by Australians.
To tell you the tuth, I liked the early episodes set in 1984-85 to the ones set in the 2005-06 era.
Now that the movie is out.......those old toys are fetching some nice $$. To bad I grew up and stopped playing with toys.
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on August 10, 2007, 01:59:52 PM
I don't care what all you naysayers think...
"More than meets the skies" is still better than:
1. Army Strong.
2. The Army of One.
3. Cross Into the Blue.
4. Be All You Can Be.
You forgot:
"Aim High"
(Make'm Duck)
;D
Gunner C
Quote from: mikeylikey on August 13, 2007, 03:47:32 PM
... To bad I grew up and stopped playing with toys.
Lies.
(http://jcolgan004.googlepages.com/i-shall-not-tolerate-such-rubbish-go.jpg)
Quote from: mikeylikey on August 13, 2007, 03:47:32 PM
Now that the movie is out.......those old toys are fetching some nice $$. To bad I grew up and stopped playing with toys.
Too bad the new movie is nothing like the shows.
Careful, once you stop playing with toys and watching cartoons you take one step closer to the grave.
Quote from: mikeylikey on August 13, 2007, 03:47:32 PM
Now that the movie is out.......those old toys are fetching some nice $$. To bad I grew up and stopped playing with toys.
I might find out, if I were ever willing to part with them.
The only difference between kids' toys and adults' toys is the price tag.
OK, call me behind the times if you want to but; is it really important for CAP to have a tagline?
I can see absolutely zero value in one.
Agreed! However, I like, Civil Air Patrol: United States Air Force Auxiliary.
Quote from: mikeylikey on August 14, 2007, 02:47:47 AM
Agreed! However, I like, Civil Air Patrol: United States Air Force Auxiliary.
AGREED!
Quote from: mikeylikey on August 14, 2007, 02:47:47 AM
Agreed! However, I like, Civil Air Patrol: United States Air Force Auxiliary.
But I thought you liked the one from my ID card proposal from last year! "Civil Air Patrol, Formerly the US Air Force Auxiliary - A Division of TP Fashions Corp."
Quote from: JC004 on August 14, 2007, 04:14:20 AM
But I thought you liked the one from my ID card proposal from last year! "Civil Air Patrol, Formerly the US Air Force Auxiliary - A Division of TP Fashions Corp."
WOW! I can't believe you went there. Bad El Tee! No soup for you...One Year!
Quote from: JC004 on August 14, 2007, 04:14:20 AM
Quote from: mikeylikey on August 14, 2007, 02:47:47 AM
Agreed! However, I like, Civil Air Patrol: United States Air Force Auxiliary.
But I thought you liked the one from my ID card proposal from last year! "Civil Air Patrol, Formerly the US Air Force Auxiliary - A Division of TP Fashions Corp."
Colgan......Post that pic if you still have it. I lost it when my computer "fell" off the table.
"CIVIL AIR PATROL / UNITED STATES AIR FORCE AUXILIARY"
I second the motion...
I wonder how long it'll be before someone wants to put USCAPUSAFAUX on a nametag...
Quote from: docspur on August 14, 2007, 05:44:46 PM
Quote from: JC004 on August 14, 2007, 04:14:20 AM
But I thought you liked the one from my ID card proposal from last year! "Civil Air Patrol, Formerly the US Air Force Auxiliary - A Division of TP Fashions Corp."
WOW! I can't believe you went there. Bad El Tee! No soup for you...One Year!
But..it's truuuue.
Quote from: mikeylikey on August 14, 2007, 05:45:51 PM
Colgan......Post that pic if you still have it. I lost it when my computer "fell" off the table.
I have no idea where it went...deleted by Black Van Hackers probably...
I learned something from a CAP National Report to Congress I was reading last night.
"Missions for America" was taken from a quote by Brig General Anderson. I am, now sort of sorry to see it go.
Salute and execute.
Hi all, I'm a squadron PAO. I've seen the new video to go with the program. Although the program is commendable the tagline sounds like a rip off of a cartoon. It's embarrassing!
Quote from: jaybird512 on August 14, 2007, 05:55:30 PM
"CIVIL AIR PATROL / UNITED STATES AIR FORCE AUXILIARY"
I second the motion...
I wonder how long it'll be before someone wants to put USCAPUSAFAUX on a nametag...
I'll concur, and seeing no objections ... the motion carries.
Ok, I just threw my dog into this fight. It sounds ridiculous. I'm not sure anyone I've spoken to took it seriously at first glance. I'm no PR guy but... "Volunteers Protecting America's Future" is what I come up with. It portrays that we provide something to the country, both in missions and cadet programs, while suggesting we are going to keep doing what we do. It reflects the selfless part (read volunteer) and encourages people that are interested in volunteering to look at us.
It's not perfect but... I'm not a PAO for a reason.
"Volunteers Protecting America's Future"
I like that one also. Good Work.
To bad that the swollen heads in AL don't ask our opinion before they do these things.
Quote from: Sgt. Savage on August 16, 2007, 12:25:42 PM
Ok, I just threw my dog into this fight. It sounds ridiculous. I'm not sure anyone I've spoken to took it seriously at first glance. I'm no PR guy but... "Volunteers Protecting America's Future" is what I come up with. It portrays that we provide something to the country, both in missions and cadet programs, while suggesting we are going to keep doing what we do. It reflects the selfless part (read volunteer) and encourages people that are interested in volunteering to look at us.
It's not perfect but... I'm not a PAO for a reason.
I like that one too! Very nice. And all encompassing.
though we could always go with..........
US Civil Air Patrol: " America's Last True Minutemen"
Another great idea Trouble. It just goes to show, that there are so many better ideas out there than "more than meets the skies". CAP should hold a contest among the members for the new tag line.
Quote from: SoCalCAPOfficer on August 16, 2007, 06:23:09 PM
It just goes to show, that there are so many better ideas out there than "more than meets the skies".
With all due respect, it only goes to show how divided we are. The Marketing Plan is supposed to be providing a united voice, it stresses LOCAL CAP and promote unity in public affairs. Thus far, 80% this thread has done the opposite.
Sir,
I think what has come about is the difference between a paid entity and a volunteer organization.
If I were being paid for my time, I could care less about what the Corporation does to sell itself, so long as it does it.
As volunteers, all we have is our pride. This tag Line is supposed to represent US. I am not more than meets the skies. How silly am I going to feel when I hand a flier to a kid at an airshow and he asks, "Do you guys drive transformers?"
I just hope we didn't pay someone to come up with that.
At the same time, if it works, I'll eat my BDU hat.
Quote from: Sgt. Savage on August 16, 2007, 08:31:21 PM
How silly am I going to feel when I hand a flier to a kid at an airshow and he asks, "Do you guys drive transformers?"
Shouldn't be much, after all you are there to recruit the cadet candidate and then preform the missions...be they O-Flights, UDF training, Leadership or the like. Tag lines are ancillary and likely forgotten.
I will echo the comments made before...y'all are making way too much of this.
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 16, 2007, 06:26:58 PM
With all do respect, it only goes to show how divided we are. The Marketing Plan is supposed to be providing a united voice, it stresses LOCAL CAP and promote unity in public affairs. Thus far, 80% this thread has done the opposite.
Joe, we
are a fairly divided and fragmented organization,
especially when it comes to our marketing efforts. We have about 5 or 6 different logos, at least three organizational names,
zero brand identity with the community, no centralized marketing materials and no common graphics/appearance across our materials, irregular PR efforts throughout the nation, and a flurry of inconsistent, and often misinforming, websites that look like a patch-quilt stain on the internet.
I wasn't at the PAO conference, and I applaud NHQ and all of you who attended for beginning to address these issues. It's a massive problem that needs work by professionals who work with national-level clients and will take time to produce a unified, consistent, and complete plan. So I don't know what was discussed, but adding another marketing "tag line" to the pile of disjointed marketing materials and campaigns that we have is not helping. If anything, it's a distraction from the true issues giving the appearance of a marketing solution.
Steps in the right direction, probably. But just realize it's a massive issue deserving of serious, lengthy conversation, debate, and thought. Don't dismiss our criticism as empty banter designed to further disjoint our organization. Rather, it is constructive concern on our part for the direction our organization is going with this sensitive and important project.
Quote from: Pylon on August 16, 2007, 08:58:14 PM
Steps in the right direction, probably. But just realize it's a massive issue deserving of serious, lengthy conversation, debate, and thought. Don't dismiss our criticism as empty banter designed to further disjoint our organization. Rather, it is constructive concern on our part for the direction our organization is going with this sensitive and important project.
I don't see it as "constructive," if it really was constructive concern the place to whine about it is through channels.
Send a letter to National, make an official suggestion or commentary. Don't come to a non-"CAP official" Internet forum and join a chorus of other "incredulous" sorts taking very public smacks a the tag line of a new Marketing Effort. When, really, the best that could happen is that Brig General Courter might see it here and the worst that could happen is some potential CAP Officer or Cadets comes here and sees numerous (we don't know who is a members and who is not here) people swating at it in a display of disunity.
Maybe it was that I was there at the PAO Academy and saw the confidence, professional and zeal filled presentation of it by EXPERTS, who showed the date driven reason for its inception. Maybe it is just that...for the first time...a unified PUBLIC AFFAIRS effort is going forward. Then I come here and see people take pot shots at a tag line (the MOST ancillary part of it all) to the discredit of us all.
How can you defend this...?!?
Sorry, but you're making the same objections that can be said about just about everything on this web page -- if seen by those not familiar with CAP, it gives them a bad idea about the organization. Well, this is not a recruiting site. It is a site for CAP members to discuss CAP.
Now, in this area in particular NHQ missed a major opportunity. I don't know how many other organizations that I've been in where they ask for member input on things like the name of the organization, motto, etc...They usually ask for input and often have a member vote on it. I see this whole thing as no different -- a situation where the widest possible input from the members could have been helpful. And, if nothing else it would allow for a sense of buy-in to the program. Even if people don't like the final finished product, they are much less inclined to go after it with a blowtorch if they had some reasonable say during its development.
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 16, 2007, 09:15:57 PM
I don't see it as "constructive," if it really was constructive concern the place to whine about it is through channels.
Send a letter to National, make an official suggestion or commentary. Don't come to a non-"CAP official" Internet forum and join a chorus of other "incredulous" sorts taking very public smacks a the tag line of a new Marketing Effort. When, really, the best that could happen is that Brig General Courter might see it here and the worst that could happen is some potential CAP Officer or Cadets comes here and sees numerous (we don't know who is a members and who is not here) people swating at it in a display of disunity.
Maybe it was that I was there at the PAO Academy and saw the confidence, professional and zeal filled presentation of it by EXPERTS, who showed the date driven reason for its inception. Maybe it is just that...for the first time...a unified PUBLIC AFFAIRS effort is going forward. Then I come here and see people take pot shots at a tag line (the MOST ancillary part of it all) to the discredit of us all.
How can you defend this...?!?
Calm down. Have some dip.
You're way off base in my opinion. By saying this:
QuoteI don't see it as "constructive," if it really was constructive concern the place to whine about it is through channels.
That would indicate that every conversation that has and could possibly take place on CAPTalk is not constructive in nature. Is the only place to have constructive conversation within the chain of command? I, for one, think CAPTalk
is the perfect place to have productive, thought-provoking conversations. I guess you disagree. There's always the door called "logout".
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 16, 2007, 09:15:57 PM
Send a letter to National, make an official suggestion or commentary. Don't come to a non-"CAP official" Internet forum and join a chorus of other "incredulous" sorts taking very public smacks a the tag line of a new Marketing Effort.
CAPTalk is the place for us to develop these ideas. It's also fair to criticize an idea that one honestly feels is bad. Do I need to tell my Squadron Commander in an official memorandum, destined ultimately for NHQ/PAO that I feel it's bad? I don't think so. I would much rather hash out the ideas, thoughts, and suggestions here and make a much more cohesive, productive, and positive piece to send up the chain.
I understand you like it. You were there when the "sell" was made, we weren't. From the perspective of the 99% of CAP members who didn't get the lengthy explanation of why we should like the tagline, I don't like it. It doesn't mean I'm a destructive person hell-bent on bad-mouthing national headquarters. I would think by now you would have realized this.
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 16, 2007, 09:15:57 PM
Maybe it was that I was there at the PAO Academy and saw the confidence, professional and zeal filled presentation of it by EXPERTS, who showed the date driven reason for its inception. Maybe it is just that...for the first time...a unified PUBLIC AFFAIRS effort is going forward. Then I come here and see people take pot shots at a tag line (the MOST ancillary part of it all) to the discredit of us all.
Unfortunately, you claim that the tagline is the most ancillary part of it all, but it's really the only piece of significance that's been presented here. Care to share the rest of the marketing plan that went along with it? Maybe it will help us all to see the bigger picture into which the tagline falls.
By the way, I'm not taking pot shots. I also would figure by now you'd be able to discern legitimate concern for the public affairs state of Civil Air Patrol and a true personal want to see that turned around.
But hey, what do I know. I'm just the guy writing from his office with "Marketing & Communications" engraved below his name on the door.
I'm sorry...but when I see people "dog-piling" on something based only on cursory understanding, I find it concerning.
That is not debating, or discussing matters...its wreckless. And, what's more, its public!
From chaos comes innovation...
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 16, 2007, 08:56:38 PM
Tag lines are ancillary and likely forgotten.
I don't think they really are - if CAP did a National advertising campaign and actually got some commercial time, radio time, etc I do believe that people would remember it.
Just think of how many military "tag lines" you can remember, years after they discontinued them...
Be all that you can be...
Army of One
Army Strong (which hasn't been out too long and people already remember it)
The few the proud
Cross into the blue
Get an edge on life
You and the Navy, full speed ahead
Be part of the action
Aim High
It's not just a job, it's an adventure
It's a great place to start
Opportunity is waiting for you
Stand up, stand out
It's a great way to serve
Americans at their best
Let the journey begin
We're looking for a few good men
Make it happen
You can...
So you can see that picking a tag line is important because people DO remember them and they may represent your organization for YEARS to come...
You know, after chewing on it a bit, the Transformers thing kind of fits. Most of the time, we are just Joe Average Citizen doing our regular jobs, but when the telephone rings or the workday ends we tranform ourselves in to CAP Officers, faster than a speeding ultralight, with spectral imaging vision capabilities, able to leap tall buildings in a single engine Cessna... er performing ES, CD, and HLS missions, teaching Cadets and AE and so on.
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 16, 2007, 10:54:33 PM
I'm sorry...but when I see people "dog-piling" on something based only on cursory understanding, I find it concerning.
That is not debating, or discussing matters...its wreckless. And, what's more, its public!
Cursory understanding.... I think we may have a little more insight than that, we are the membership at large. I am much more concerned that potential members will have little more than cursory understanding of our organization and likely include this hokey tag line in their overall assesment of the organization.
Mind you, I don't hate the tag line, it serves a purpose. What I don't like is its striking resemblance to a cartoon phrase that is most universaly recognized from the "Transformers" cartoon seiries. It isn't the message, it's the delivery that's flawed.
Quote from: Pylon on August 16, 2007, 10:22:56 PM
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 16, 2007, 09:15:57 PM
I don't see it as "constructive," if it really was constructive concern the place to whine about it is through channels.
Send a letter to National, make an official suggestion or commentary. Don't come to a non-"CAP official" Internet forum and join a chorus of other "incredulous" sorts taking very public smacks a the tag line of a new Marketing Effort. When, really, the best that could happen is that Brig General Courter might see it here and the worst that could happen is some potential CAP Officer or Cadets comes here and sees numerous (we don't know who is a members and who is not here) people swating at it in a display of disunity.
Maybe it was that I was there at the PAO Academy and saw the confidence, professional and zeal filled presentation of it by EXPERTS, who showed the date driven reason for its inception. Maybe it is just that...for the first time...a unified PUBLIC AFFAIRS effort is going forward. Then I come here and see people take pot shots at a tag line (the MOST ancillary part of it all) to the discredit of us all.
How can you defend this...?!?
Calm down. Have some dip.
You're way off base in my opinion. By saying this: QuoteI don't see it as "constructive," if it really was constructive concern the place to whine about it is through channels.
That would indicate that every conversation that has and could possibly take place on CAPTalk is not constructive in nature. Is the only place to have constructive conversation within the chain of command? I, for one, think CAPTalk is the perfect place to have productive, thought-provoking conversations. I guess you disagree. There's always the door called "logout".
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 16, 2007, 09:15:57 PM
Send a letter to National, make an official suggestion or commentary. Don't come to a non-"CAP official" Internet forum and join a chorus of other "incredulous" sorts taking very public smacks a the tag line of a new Marketing Effort.
CAPTalk is the place for us to develop these ideas. It's also fair to criticize an idea that one honestly feels is bad. Do I need to tell my Squadron Commander in an official memorandum, destined ultimately for NHQ/PAO that I feel it's bad? I don't think so. I would much rather hash out the ideas, thoughts, and suggestions here and make a much more cohesive, productive, and positive piece to send up the chain.
I understand you like it. You were there when the "sell" was made, we weren't. From the perspective of the 99% of CAP members who didn't get the lengthy explanation of why we should like the tagline, I don't like it. It doesn't mean I'm a destructive person hell-bent on bad-mouthing national headquarters. I would think by now you would have realized this.
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 16, 2007, 09:15:57 PM
Maybe it was that I was there at the PAO Academy and saw the confidence, professional and zeal filled presentation of it by EXPERTS, who showed the date driven reason for its inception. Maybe it is just that...for the first time...a unified PUBLIC AFFAIRS effort is going forward. Then I come here and see people take pot shots at a tag line (the MOST ancillary part of it all) to the discredit of us all.
Unfortunately, you claim that the tagline is the most ancillary part of it all, but it's really the only piece of significance that's been presented here. Care to share the rest of the marketing plan that went along with it? Maybe it will help us all to see the bigger picture into which the tagline falls.
By the way, I'm not taking pot shots. I also would figure by now you'd be able to discern legitimate concern for the public affairs state of Civil Air Patrol and a true personal want to see that turned around.
But hey, what do I know. I'm just the guy writing from his office with "Marketing & Communications" engraved below his name on the door.
Well said.
Jimmy missed one in his list of forgotten tag lines. Years ago the Marines used "Looking for a few good men." It was years before Gender Correctness struck our great nation.
To appreciate the next anecdote, you have to know that the marines don't have chaplains, medical corps, supply corps, and all that other stuff, they depend on the Navy.
I had a roommate years after who used to say:
The Marine Corps has a few good men. They call them Corpsmen.
Quote from: Skyray on August 17, 2007, 03:17:11 PM
Jimmy missed one in his list of forgotten tag lines. Years ago the Marines used "Looking for a few good men." It was years before Gender Correctness struck our great nation.
To appreciate the next anecdote, you have to know that the marines don't have chaplains, medical corps, supply corps, and all that other stuff, they depend on the Navy.
I had a roommate years after who used to say:
The Marine Corps has a few good men. They call them Corpsmen.
oh my...stay away from beaches. Marines are likely to show up, land, and destroy you now
I was a Corpsman, and I support that statement!
Quote from: JC004 on August 17, 2007, 03:22:35 PM
Quote from: Skyray on August 17, 2007, 03:17:11 PM
Jimmy missed one in his list of forgotten tag lines. Years ago the Marines used "Looking for a few good men." It was years before Gender Correctness struck our great nation.
To appreciate the next anecdote, you have to know that the marines don't have chaplains, medical corps, supply corps, and all that other stuff, they depend on the Navy.
I had a roommate years after who used to say:
The Marine Corps has a few good men. They call them Corpsmen.
oh my...stay away from beaches. Marines are likely to show up, land, and destroy you now
Skyray's a Marine himself.
Have any of you checked out those "We're There" PSAs on CAPCHANNEL? Thats not a bad slogan.
Quote from: RiverAux on August 18, 2007, 03:23:39 AM
Have any of you checked out those "We're There" PSAs on CAPCHANNEL? Thats not a bad slogan.
I agree, the're not too bad. Much better than the current offering that's for certain.