Does your squadron have a Booster Club?

[The Infamous Meerkat]

I'm trying to find any precedent or other squadrons that currently have a booster club... I only recently got back to my home state from the military and found that my squadron now has (among other things) a booster club of SM's that have appointed themselves the de facto finance gurus...

Anyone else have experience with anything like this? Is it good, bad, ugly?

[Walkman]

In my last unit, one of the former hi-speed cadets who turned SM (and is also now an O-3 Marine) created a non-profit booster club type of organization to do fund raising for the squadron. He created a legal non-profit entity that had a board of directors (which I was for on for a time). I moved about a year after it got going, so I can't give you a long-term report, but in the time I was there, we did two fundraisers (ruck march and formal dinner) as well as had two former cadets give small "endowments" to the fund to get things started.

I'm too lazy at the moment to look it up, but I seem to remember there being some new regs that outlawed these kind of things, though...

[Eclipse]

I'm trying to find any precedent or other squadrons that currently have a booster club... I only recently got back to my home state from the military and found that my squadron now has (among other things) a booster club of SM's that have appointed themselves the de facto finance gurus...

A venti says they are skirting the intent, if not directly violating the WBP rules.

There's is 100%, absolutely no reason for a unit to have a booster club.  They are a worse idea then those SAR hats in the other thread.

I have yet to see a single case where a legitimate reason was given for having one, and generally they are because people think
wing is going to "steal ma munies" or because they want to fund-raise in a way that wold give a Wing CC a fit.

There is also no practical way for a booster club to function independently in the way the regs require.  "Winks and nods" don't generally stand up to IRS scrutiny.

[Flying Pig]

I'm trying to find any precedent or other squadrons that currently have a booster club... I only recently got back to my home state from the military and found that my squadron now has (among other things) a booster club of SM's that have appointed themselves the de facto finance gurus...

A venti says they are skirting the intent, if not directly violating the WBP rules.

There's is 100%, absolutely no reason for a unit to have a booster club.  They are a worse idea then those SAR hats in the other thread.

I have yet to see a single case where a legitimate reason was given for having one, and generally they are because people think
wing is going to "steal ma munies" or because they want to fund-raise in a way that wold give a Wing CC a fit.

There is also no practical way for a booster club to function independently in the way the regs require.  "Winks and nods" don't generally stand up to IRS scrutiny.

I gotta agree.   If the parents want to help, join as patron or sponsors and assist the Sq with doing their own fund raisers.  Or here is an idea.....just show up and support the Sq at the fund raisers we already do!!! Parents bring the school sports mindset to CAP and it doesn't apply.   Parents of cadets in my unit briefly started one because of parents believing that every spare cent the Sq had needed to be spent on funding the cadets to go to any and every activity under the sun.  Parents wanted to start a booster club that would be used to pay for cadet activities.  Cadets could apply to the non-profit for scholarships.  My issue was that if we were going to spend the time to raise money, it needed to go to the unit as a whole.  Parents had a very hard time understanding that without the Squadron, there is no cadet program.  The booster members wanted to decide who got "scholarships" to activities, vs the squadron staff deciding.  They were wanting cadets to participate in fund raising activities sponsored by the Booster Club, ie. non-CAP activity.
As the SqCC, I dissolved the Booster Club. Yip..... I really did.  Basically by telling them that they were not associated with our squadron so good luck explaining to the IRS what your booster club is for when I deny any knowledge of you.   Parents were not going to be allowed to run my unit though controlling money via a separate non-profit.  Other members who supported it were also looking for a pool of cash that could be spent without the knowledge, direction or sanction of the commander.

Money needs to come in to the Squadron and then the Squadron staff decides how it gets spent.  If the unit has a cadet program I would imagine the DCC and the other seniors in the unit will have a voice.  But parents or other members not on the command staff or on the finance committee controlling the cadet program and other members indirectly by waving money at them though a booster club was a no-go for me.  Perhaps others have had better dealings.  If you are going to support the squadron, then join as a member and raise money as a member to support it as a whole through approved CAP means.

People create booster clubs in CAP as a way to circumvent the commander and CAP regs.   But heh..... that was just my experience. I didnt even really care about the IRS issues (it never got that far)  My issues were the issues of people circumventing the command staff. 

[Devil Doc]

Our Squadron has a booster club. Works out great for Cadet Activities. The SMs dont use the money as much because we arnt nearly as active as the Cadets. They use it for NON CAP activities, so it works out great for them.

[Eclipse]

Our Squadron has a booster club. Works out great for Cadet Activities. The SMs dont use the money as much because we arnt nearly as active as the Cadets. They use it for NON CAP activities, so it works out great for them.

How could they use it for non-CAP activities?

[Flying Pig]

Our Squadron has a booster club. Works out great for Cadet Activities. The SMs dont use the money as much because we arnt nearly as active as the Cadets. They use it for NON CAP activities, so it works out great for them.

Ummm...... The booster club is raising money to assist the cadets for cadet activities that are non-CAP activities? What are they doing that they couldnt do as a Sq activity?  I am not suggesting that anyone is being shady.... but your post illustrates the exact problem with the idea. 

[Flying Pig]

Dont get me wrong... I am 100% all for parents working fund raisers.  Prior to the fund raiser, everyone meets and there is an agreement that this money is going to assist cadets who need assistance with paying for encampment as an example.  We do the fund raiser and within the Sq books, we know that this money is set aside to assist cadets with encampment scholarships.  Again, the booster club is redundant and undermines the Sq command staff and the finance committee charged with managing the unit.  Booster clubs are used an an unaccountable slush fund, usually to do things that would not otherwise be authorized by CAP.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

We have a "Support Group" made up mostly of parents of our cadets.

[Flying Pig]

When I was the Sq Commander I know I needed a support group a few times but it was usually BECAUSE of the parents!!

[Woodsy]

I'm trying to find any precedent or other squadrons that currently have a booster club... I only recently got back to my home state from the military and found that my squadron now has (among other things) a booster club of SM's that have appointed themselves the de facto finance gurus...

A venti says they are skirting the intent, if not directly violating the WBP rules.

There's is 100%, absolutely no reason for a unit to have a booster club.  They are a worse idea then those SAR hats in the other thread.

I have yet to see a single case where a legitimate reason was given for having one, and generally they are because people think
wing is going to "steal ma munies" or because they want to fund-raise in a way that wold give a Wing CC a fit.

There is also no practical way for a booster club to function independently in the way the regs require.  "Winks and nods" don't generally stand up to IRS scrutiny.

Seen it, more than once.  Also seen wing take away the "cool toys" donated to the squadron.  Once they're in ORMS, they are property of CAP, not the local squadron.

Wing might say one single squadron doesn't need 50+ laptops, a pile of comms gear and dozens of DF'ing equipment.  And they might be right.  But if the local squadron has done all the work to get the stuff, then as far as I'm concerned, it's theirs.

One real simple way to do this is for the property to be owned by a 3rd party organization, and leased/loaned to the local squadron.  Prevents a pile of paperwork and heartache. 

[Ned]

This is probably a good time to remind everyone that a typical "booster club" - whether it is intended to support CAP or another organization - is almost always organized as a non-profit corporation to allow donors potential tax deductions for their donations to the club.

There are some pretty strict laws about corporations; things like Boards of Directors, Bylaws, meetings, minutes, etc.  And Uncle Sam (in the form of the IRS) takes a dim view of corporations that do not follow the rules (by failing to hold the required meetings, filing tax returns, etc.) and will take appropriate action when the minimum corporate requirments are not followed.  Directors have been held personaly liable and donor's deductions denied, to name a just few of the unpleasant possibilities.

So anyone asked to serve as an officer or director of a Booster Club should take the assignment, very, very seriously and make sure that all the "i's are dotted and t's crossed."  Otherwise it can turn into a very messy and potentially expensive experience.  At a mimimum, you should get insurance to cover any potential director or officer liability.

"Caveat Director."


Ned Lee
Former CAP Legal Officer

[Eclipse]

Seen it, more than once.  Also seen wing take away the "cool toys" donated to the squadron.  Once they're in ORMS, they are property of CAP, not the local squadron.

Wing might say one single squadron doesn't need 50+ laptops, a pile of comms gear and dozens of DF'ing equipment.  And they might be right.  But if the local squadron has done all the work to get the stuff, then as far as I'm concerned, it's theirs.

One real simple way to do this is for the property to be owned by a 3rd party organization, and leased/loaned to the local squadron.  Prevents a pile of paperwork and heartache.

You've seen money taken from a squadron since WBP has been in place?

No way.  Wives tale.

[jimmydeanno]

Seen it, more than once.  Also seen wing take away the "cool toys" donated to the squadron.  Once they're in ORMS, they are property of CAP, not the local squadron.

Wing might say one single squadron doesn't need 50+ laptops, a pile of comms gear and dozens of DF'ing equipment.  And they might be right.  But if the local squadron has done all the work to get the stuff, then as far as I'm concerned, it's theirs.

One real simple way to do this is for the property to be owned by a 3rd party organization, and leased/loaned to the local squadron.  Prevents a pile of paperwork and heartache.

You've seen money taken from a squadron since WBP has been in place?

No way.  Wives tale.

Personally? No.  But I know a guy (who is really reputable) who has a friend who is a wing finance officer who knew someone who helped write the WBP regs, who knew somebody that had a friend who was in CAP who told them that they had their money taken away.

[Eclipse]

This is probably a good time to remind everyone that a typical "booster club" - whether it is intended to support CAP or another organization - is almost always organized as a non-profit corporation to allow donors potential tax deductions for their donations to the club.

There are some pretty strict laws about corporations; things like Boards of Directors, Bylaws, meetings, minutes, etc.  And Uncle Sam (in the form of the IRS) takes a dim view of corporations that do not follow the rules (by failing to hold the required meetings, filing tax returns, etc.) and will take appropriate action when the minimum corporate requirments are not followed.  Directors have been held personaly liable and donor's deductions denied, to name a just few of the unpleasant possibilities.

So anyone asked to serve as an officer or director of a Booster Club should take the assignment, very, very seriously and make sure that all the "i's are dotted and t's crossed."  Otherwise it can turn into a very messy and potentially expensive experience.  At a mimimum, you should get insurance to cover any potential director or officer liability.

"Caveat Director."


Ned Lee
Former CAP Legal Officer

And in addition, and Ned, please correct me if I'm wrong, isn't re-directing money that would otherwise be intended
as a direct donation to CAP to a booster club a violation of CAP regs, if not the law as well?

[Flying Pig]

Seen it, more than once.  Also seen wing take away the "cool toys" donated to the squadron.  Once they're in ORMS, they are property of CAP, not the local squadron.

Wing might say one single squadron doesn't need 50+ laptops, a pile of comms gear and dozens of DF'ing equipment.  And they might be right.  But if the local squadron has done all the work to get the stuff, then as far as I'm concerned, it's theirs.

One real simple way to do this is for the property to be owned by a 3rd party organization, and leased/loaned to the local squadron.  Prevents a pile of paperwork and heartache.

You've seen money taken from a squadron since WBP has been in place?

No way.  Wives tale.

Personally? No.  But I know a guy (who is really reputable) who has a friend who is a wing finance officer who knew someone who helped write the WBP regs, who knew somebody that had a friend who was in CAP who told them that they had their money taken away.

I think that was the same guy who dated my uncles daughters nieces twin sisters next door neighbor.   Sorry.... could resist

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

When I was the Sq Commander I know I needed a support group a few times but it was usually BECAUSE of the parents!!

I learnt that as a Safety Officer.  You'd be surprised how many parents thought putting their kid in CAP was going to be the equivalent of "Full Metal Jacket" or military school...and were disappointed to find out we aren't.

[Woodsy]

Seen it, more than once.  Also seen wing take away the "cool toys" donated to the squadron.  Once they're in ORMS, they are property of CAP, not the local squadron.

Wing might say one single squadron doesn't need 50+ laptops, a pile of comms gear and dozens of DF'ing equipment.  And they might be right.  But if the local squadron has done all the work to get the stuff, then as far as I'm concerned, it's theirs.

One real simple way to do this is for the property to be owned by a 3rd party organization, and leased/loaned to the local squadron.  Prevents a pile of paperwork and heartache.

You've seen money taken from a squadron since WBP has been in place?

No way.  Wives tale.

Personally? No.  But I know a guy (who is really reputable) who has a friend who is a wing finance officer who knew someone who helped write the WBP regs, who knew somebody that had a friend who was in CAP who told them that they had their money taken away.

I think that was the same guy who dated my uncles daughters nieces twin sisters next door neighbor.   Sorry.... could resist

I have PERSONALLY seen a squadron lose a major donation (5 figures) because of wing intervention.  Not exactly that the wing took the money, but wing made so many conditions and issues above and beyond what the donor and potential squadron had agreed on, such as stating there could not be a stipulation that the money stay local, that the donor pretty much said screw you and took his money elsewhere. 

I HAVE seen donated equipment, and equipment purchased with donated funds, be "reassigned."  That's the same as taking money if you ask me. 

[Eclipse]

I have PERSONALLY seen a squadron lose a major donation (5 figures) because of wing intervention.  Not exactly that the wing took the money, but wing made so many conditions and issues above and beyond what the donor and potential squadron had agreed on, such as stating there could not be a stipulation that the money stay local, that the donor pretty much said screw you and took his money elsewhere. 

As yo say, not the same thing.

>I< have personally put the kibosh on a number of large donations because at the end of the day they were not a good idea.  Just because someone is waving money at
you doesn't mean it won't be a huge PITA in the end, not to mention the fact that the average squadron wouldn't know what to >do< with a 5-figure donation.

I HAVE seen donated equipment, and equipment purchased with donated funds, be "reassigned."  That's the same as taking money if you ask me.

As have I, though I don't agree it's the same - at the end of the day, everything is corporate property, and if a unit isn't or can't use(ing) something,
then it should be reassigned.  The case where an actual critical piece of equipment is reassigned from a unit is going to be rare to the point of
"wive's tale", and likely has a complicated back story.

Neither example above is justification for this booster club nonsense.

[MajorM]

We have a 501c3 non-profit corporation that supports youth aviation programs in our area.  It's run like any npo complete with board meetings, 1099 filings, bylaws and so on.  It probably helps that some number of us, including our attorney work in the non profit world for a living.  We are a membership based npo but open to anyone.  Currently the only members are also squadron members but there's no bylaw or corporate requirement for that.

Personally I've found it quite useful.  We have a high value asset that was put together using member funds that is controlled by the npo.  Without it I am quite confident it would be sent all over the place with little to no fiscal concern.

It's also quite useful for grant writing.  Local foundations and groups like having a local IRS# to give to versus the national number.  However we are always very clear they are not donating to CAP.  Rather they are donating/granting to a youth aviation organization.  It just happens that our squadron is the only youth based aviation group in the area.

[Private Investigator]

Seen it, more than once.  Also seen wing take away the "cool toys" donated to the squadron.  Once they're in ORMS, they are property of CAP, not the local squadron.

Wing might say one single squadron doesn't need 50+ laptops, a pile of comms gear and dozens of DF'ing equipment.  And they might be right.  But if the local squadron has done all the work to get the stuff, then as far as I'm concerned, it's theirs.

One real simple way to do this is for the property to be owned by a 3rd party organization, and leased/loaned to the local squadron.  Prevents a pile of paperwork and heartache.

If we had 50 laptops they would all have a label on them, "Property of John Smith". Everyone is happy and why bother putting it on ORMS?

[Private Investigator]

I have PERSONALLY seen a squadron lose a major donation (5 figures) because of wing intervention.  Not exactly that the wing took the money, but wing made so many conditions and issues above and beyond what the donor and potential squadron had agreed on, such as stating there could not be a stipulation that the money stay local, that the donor pretty much said screw you and took his money elsewhere. 

I HAVE seen donated equipment, and equipment purchased with donated funds, be "reassigned."  That's the same as taking money if you ask me.

More to 'the' story? Because I hear stories all the time. 

[FW]

If one "loans" property to CAP, CAP funds can not be used to maintain or repair such property unless a corporate officer agrees to it.  If one "leases" property to a unit, the agreement must be approved (fat chance) by a corporate officer. So, why would a booster club "lend" equipment to a squadron? Why would a squadron commander wish a FWA complaint made if CAP funds were used to maintain or repair such property? It is easier just to donate it to a squadron.  I've never heard of a wing reasigning property to another unit unless it was not being used.  And, I've heard much over the years.

I know of quite a few very large donations to squadrons.  I know of a few squadrons which have assets which are greater than some wings.  The WBP prevents wings from taking funds from a squadron unless it is dechartered. A wing commander can NOT accept a donation larger than $5000. Region commanders can only accept donations up to $10k.  Those 5 figure donations must go thru NHQ.  I do not know of anyone losing a major donation of funds because of a wing's "conditions".  It is not only against regulations, IMHO, it is against our core values...

[The Infamous Meerkat]

I appreciate all your input gents, I have come to the conclusion that my personal thoughts of our booster club are a common viewpoint here. To be honest, I'm not even sure if our group has done any of the paperwork for becoming an 'official' booster club, and their concepts for earning money are way off the mark both legally and ethically.

Their most recent violation came from the "president's" idea to take a local donation of wreaths for Wreaths Across America and resell them so we could buy more wreaths. Profitable? Definitely. Productive? Sure! Ethical and legal? .... No.

I'm working on my gathering of ammunition to get them disbanded, because so far they have yet to adhere to some of their simplest bylaws (They're not supposed to "associate" themselves with our squadron, as if that isn't hokey enough, but frequently hold fundraisers at ANG functions with banners and polos proudly emblazoned with "Friends of Boise 073" on them)....

I'm irritated with them, if you couldn't tell. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

Well, you have your unit in your name, so maybe someone from higher up already took notice...

[NIN]

Personally? No.  But I know a guy (who is really reputable) who has a friend who is a wing finance officer who knew someone who helped write the WBP regs, who knew somebody that had a friend who was in CAP who told them that they had their money taken away.

I think I know that guy, too! or the friend. I got a little bumfuzzled with all the pronouns.

[Devil Doc]

Im not exactly sure how the boosters club works. I can give an Example. Most of the Cadets due performs NON CAP Activies, meaning that they are not covered by CAP nor representing CAP, but are doing an activity. Example? White Water Rafting, per se, if CAP dosnt approve it, cadets go using booster club money. CAP is not Liable, nor represented, and the booster club take repsonsibility. I think thats how ours work. Maybe im wrong?

[FW]

Im not exactly sure how the boosters club works. I can give an Example. Most of the Cadets due performs NON CAP Activies, meaning that they are not covered by CAP nor representing CAP, but are doing an activity. Example? White Water Rafting, per se, if CAP dosnt approve it, cadets go using booster club money. CAP is not Liable, nor represented, and the booster club take repsonsibility. I think thats how ours work. Maybe im wrong?

Nope; doesn't work that way either.  If a CAP squadron goes "white water rafting"; it goes as a CAP squadron.  It makes no difference who takes them or, who pays for it.  As I've been told on numerous occasions, CAP can be held liable...

[The Infamous Meerkat]

Precisely ^, The only reason a booster club exists is to generate unauthorized funds for unauthorized things. If it looks and smells like a CAP group activity in any way... well, I know what I would classify it as...

USAFaux2004, I can only hope thats the case, but there aren't too many guys from IDWG here, and i think even less that outrank me.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Readers don't need to be registered. NHQ Also has people on here. Etc.

[JeffDG]

The Booster Club issue has come before the NEC/CSAG...last proposal (I think in committee now) was to bar any CAP member from belonging to a Booster Club, and requiring Wing/CC approval for use of the squadron name.

[The Infamous Meerkat]

Exxxxxcellent!!! 

Any action at all would be very much appreciated, we don't get too much voice...   

[peter rabbit]

The Booster Club issue has come before the NEC/CSAG...last proposal (I think in committee now) was to bar any CAP member from belonging to a Booster Club, and requiring Wing/CC approval for use of the squadron name

While I don't agree with his position, I understand NHQ General Counsel has a problem barring all members from being a member of a booster club (freedom of association, etc). Right now, only command staff can't hold a position of authority in the booster club. However, if it looks like a goose......

As for taking money designated for Wreaths Across America, that is a big no-no and can land anyone involved in jail.

[JeffDG]

While I don't agree with his position, I understand NHQ General Counsel has a problem barring all members from being a member of a booster club (freedom of association, etc). Right now, only command staff can't hold a position of authority in the booster club. However, if it looks like a goose......

We're a private organization, and we're free to associate with whom we choose.

To use an extreme example, we could deny membership to someone who is a member of the Nazi Party. 

CAP has freedom of association too, and the freedom to not associate as well, provided we don't deny membership on a prohibited ground.

[Devil Doc]

Last time I looked, Boosters Clubs are Allowed. Saying a CAP Cadet cant go with his other CAP Friends white water rafting, because they belong to the same association? Thats like not allowing me to go canoeing with the boyscouts, who also they same group happens to be in CAP, cant go? Does that sound right?

[FlyTiger77]

Last time I looked, Boosters Clubs are Allowed. Saying a CAP Cadet cant go with his other CAP Friends white water rafting, because they belong to the same association? Thats like not allowing me to go canoeing with the boyscouts, who also they same group happens to be in CAP, cant go? Does that sound right?

I think the point being made was that a squadron shouldn't put together an outing and then claim it is an outing under a different organization and try to  disavow any CAP liability. I don't think there is anyone suggesting that a group of people who happen to also be fellow CAP members can't associate outside of CAP.

As with most legal matters, the devil is in the details.


Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer nor do I even play one on TV. Please do not misconstrue anything I say as legal advice, even though I do regularly stay in a Holiday Inn Express.

[JeffDG]

Last time I looked, Boosters Clubs are Allowed. Saying a CAP Cadet cant go with his other CAP Friends white water rafting, because they belong to the same association? Thats like not allowing me to go canoeing with the boyscouts, who also they same group happens to be in CAP, cant go? Does that sound right?

I think the point being made was that a squadron shouldn't put together an outing and then claim it is an outing under a different organization and try to  disavow any CAP liability. I don't think there is anyone suggesting that a group of people who happen to also be fellow CAP members can't associate outside of CAP.

As with most legal matters, the devil is in the details.


Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer nor do I even play one on TV. Please do not misconstrue anything I say as legal advice, even though I do regularly stay in a Holiday Inn Express.

Let me repeat the above disclaimer, except the Holiday Inn part...my company has a corporate discount with the Hilton chain...

The best advice a lawyer ever gave me about such things was the "duck test".  If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

So, if all of the members of a CAP squadron go whitewater rafting, let's see...looks an awful lot like this:

[MajorM]

I would think barring a booster club would prove problematic and you'd lose more than you'd gain.  On the problematic side is that a well run booster club shouldn't be that much different than a well run non-profit or foundation.  How do you discern the two?  One booster club was a foundation and netted more than $50k a year.  They certainly supported the squadron but also supported other squadrons, wing, and random youth groups, cancer benefits, exchange students, etc.  Blanket rules tend to have the effect of stifling creativity and resourcefulness.

My experience has also been that those engaged in a legitimate supportive non profit are the same members highly involved in the life of the squadron.   It smacks of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.

Finally, I would view the "booster club problem" as a symptom.  Why do they exist?  Where did they come from?  They exist because NHQ has historically done a terrible job at development.  I've been around for 29 years and seen the host of bad ideas trotted out.  An organization of this age and size should have a robust, supportive foundation of its own.  We do not.  So members have stepped into the breach where leadership has failed. 

I do understand General Counsel's dilemma.  I try hard to get other members of our "booster club" (I hate that term btw) to understand the view as well.  If $10,000 goes missing from our non-profit the newspaper article will talk about how $10k went missing from the CAP squadron.  It didn't, they're separate, but the facts don't always get in the way of a juicy story.

I'd prefer to see NHQ harness the energy.  Provide training or support.  Create a national foundation and franchise it.  Allow 70% of locally raised funds to stay and send 30% onward.  Or, allow non-profits to pay a membership fee to the foundation and in return get services to keep them on the right side of 501c3 law.  Those fees pay for foundation staff who go raise more money.  Both are established non-profit models.

And it is possible.  Take a look at the National Guard Youth Challenge Foundation as an example of what can be accomplished.

[RiverAux]

Can't prohibit the club from existing, but you can certainly not accept their donations or give them any sort of support.  A booster club for an organization that doesn't want to be "boosted" won't last long. 

Can't see any real justification for having one and I know I wouldn't have wanted to have to deal with one WIWSC.  There is enough red tape to deal with in CAP much less adding to the burden by dealing with another organization. 

[FW]

I can't comment on current discussions by the BoG (who would be deciding on such matters now) however, I did write the 2008 regulation on Booster Clubs.  That regulation stated that any member of CAP could be a member of a booster club however, CAP commanders could only serve in an advisory capacity.  The Booster Club must be totally independent from CAP.

Booster clubs can be a valuable asset to CAP units at any level.  The (National) CAP Foundation, I understand, is finally getting its wings and will begin supporting CAP programs according to its bylaws. 

I agree with MajM on his thoughts about the "booster club problem" as a symptom of incomplete corporate planning and development.  While we now have a "Director of Development", I fear he will be as unsuccessful as his predecessors.  The CAP Foundation should be doing the "development".  The Foundation can raise funds much more creativly than CAP.  Local booster clubs can do the same however, having the proper talent to run them is really problematic.  It is why the GC's head aches when he must deal with them. 

I'm not a fan of "franchising" the CAP Foundation.  I am, though, in favor of wing "representitives" on the foundation responsible for fund raising at the state and local level.  Maybe it's just semantics but, I like a central flow where money is concerned.  And, although I'm not an accontant or lawyer, I've stayed at Holiday Inn Express and Hilton Hotels...

[MajorM]

FWIW, I have noticed of late in the philanthropy world is a much greater emphasis on localized giving and a greater sophistication amongst funders to determine locality through the 501c3 letter. This would be one weakness to a national only strategy.

For example I'm looking at a grant opportunity from a regional utility right now.  In talking with their grant staff CAP's national number makes the squadron ineligible for a grant.  But our local non-profit is eligible due to its stated 501c3 mission and location.

[Eclipse]

I would like someone to provide a simple example of a reason to have one of these clubs.

In the example above, you're circumventing both the CAP policy of negotiating with large entities at the squadron level,
and likely the intent of the grant in terms of the intended recipients.

People trying to use a booster club to game the system are asking for serious trouble.

[Devil Doc]

Im not in my booster club, not apart in the activities. I just think thats how mine works. Legal aspects to me, always takes the fun out of things, sue happy people nowadays. Booster Clubs can Raise funds without restrictions like the CAP Squadron, which could be one reason why Boosters Clubs are prevailant.

[Eclipse]

Im not in my booster club, not apart in the activities. I just think thats how mine works. Legal aspects to me, always takes the fun out of things, sue happy people nowadays. Booster Clubs can Raise funds without restrictions like the CAP Squadron, which could be one reason why Boosters Clubs are prevailant.

For clarity - booster clubs and >not< "prevalent" in CAP.  I don't know where we'd find that data, but to my knowledge there aren't any in my wing, nor maybe even the region.

In this case it has nothing to do with "sue happy people", we're talking about CAP regs and tax laws administered by the IRS.  Things you don't mess with if you value your membership, financial security, and potentially freedom.  The last thing anyone with any sense would do is risk big fines from the IRS just to shield a few bucks from "being taken by wing".  Talk about a waste of time, but then again, we still have units who have petty cash accounts, uniform shops, and other things that break the finance regs, not to mention far too many who can't seem to be able to submit a proper
check request or F108  but are somehow able to complain about $20 worth of unreimbursed gas for their entire CAP career.

Booster clubs are also not free of restrictions, there are a fair number of rules in regards to the "who" and the "how". 

As a commander, the last thing I would want is people with whom I have zero control or authority raising funds in my, or CAP's name.  There's nothing a
booster club can ask for or do, that CAP should be involved in, that the unit can't do directly.

One of my units was considering a booster club because they had a blue-sky idea about having big-ticket fund raising dinners that served alcohol (apparently rich people paying $150-300 a plate for dinner don't like the idea of a cash bar).   Anyway, the bottom line was that the donor audience
didn't exist, and there was no practical way to host these parties without direct involvement of unit staff and the commander.

It was pointless from every direction.

Further, this idea that some deep-pocket donor is going to write a big check to "Jim's SAR Booster Club", is also silly.  They vet donations like everyone else, and aren't likely to write blind checks.  Nor does this change CAP's rules about accepting donations, which have dollar limits and restrict who can
receive property.

So a "5-figure" donation will still have to be accepted and processed into Wing banker, negating the advantage.  Anything bought by the club for CAP use would still have to be received formally by the Wing CC, negating the  idea, and if people want to just pay for cadet scholarships, or buy stuff for the unit, they can, without the background noise of a booster club.

Just write a check and move on, without the tax deduction.

This whole idea grew out of paranoid members who don't understand the process thinking they can skirt the system and "hide" money and property.

It simply isn't worth the effort.

[Flying Pig]

I would agree with Eclipse.  I dont think there are really a lot of booster clubs in CAP.  I speak from the experience of the one I briefly dealt with. 

The money they raise in the name of CAP drains the fund raising sources for the unit as a whole.  Next thing you know, the Squadron will be setting up a fireworks booth as a squadron activity for the 4th of July, and your parent booster club with a big CAP emblem will be setting theirs up right next to you.  You almost indirectly end up competing against yourself!!!   As Ive said, and others have said.  CAP can solicit donations.  They do it all the time.  Rotary, VFW and other local clubs have donated to cadet programs, provided activity scholarships, etc etc.  All they have every asked for is that the recipient cadet return after the activity and talk about what they were able to do.  We have sold fire works and other things.  hey parents, instead of your booster club, help us directly.  Again, its the sports parents mindset that usually comes in to play.  Yes, not all are that way, but the majority are.  The President of the CAP booster almost ends up being the de-facto Sq Commander.

In reality, what types of fund raising can a parent booster club do that CAP members cant?  What I find is that booster clubs are doing the same types of fund raising. They just want to make sure the money is ONLY spent on a specific area of CAP, usually its for cadets.  Do the same fund raising legitimately in the name of CAP.  A separate entity doesn't need to be a part of it. 

Some of these larger organizations who want to donate to CAP arent interested in CAP, they want to be able to say they helped THEIR community.  Not taking into account that the local cadet squadron probably cant use a 20' communications trailer.

The booster all boiled down to one thing.  People didnt want to have to ask the Sq for permission to spend money.  Oh believe me.....They would still ask the Sq first, trying to get the Sq to foot the bill. If it was denied, they had the attitude of "I didnt need you anyway... Ill just go to the booster club and get what I want.... so there.... "  It was like being a kid.  If Dad says "no" then Ill just ask mom after you leave for work. 

[Devil Doc]

Good Points, Like i said, i dont run it, so dont know it works
.
http://www.ncwg.cap.gov/UserFiles/File/PAO/Carolina_WingSpan/March_2012.pdf

Page 14 is an example of what our booster club does.

[Eclipse]

OK - forgive me, but that's not what that money was donated for, and a great example of why booster clubs don't work.
Just because the money goes to another good cause, or make everyone feel good doesn't mean it's appropriate.

"The booster club held a BBQ chicken fundraiser to assist the squadron with travel expenses for their upcoming field trip to Washington DC and The Naval Academy."

That money was donated to support the CAP unit, not some other organization, any more then a unit, which is a 501(c)3 itself
should be donating to other charities. 

It also raises the point about that booster club deciding to give the money they've raised in the unit's name to some organization which
is against the core values, or some other cause the unit members don't agree with or might bring discredit to CAP.

Also, look how the article reads, which clearly shows no one knows where the line is:

"With the help of the Iredell Composite Squadron Booster Club, the squadron was able to present a check for $500 to a local
veteran group called Welcome Home Veteran, WWW.WelcomeHomeVeteran.org. The booster club held a BBQ chicken
fundraiser to assist the squadron with travel expenses for their upcoming field trip to Washington DC and The Naval Academy. Richard's Coffee Shop in Mooresville, which is a non-profit living military museum hosted the fundraiser. As part of our community service, the booster club donated a portion of our proceeds to the organization. Cadets and senior officers helped make our first fundraiser of the year a success by boxing and delivering over 500 BBQ chicken plates."

Who's "our", because the "our" in this case, legally, is the booster club, not CAP or the unit, since no one in the unit should have had a say in how that money was spent.  Clearly the unit, or at least the author, views that money as "theirs", to do with as it will, which is not how it's supposed to work.

There is also no reason that fundraiser could not have been done directly at the unit, without the booster club, though I will grant that some states
and local jurisdictions have complicated / expensive rules about serving food.

[NIN]

<snip>
but then again, we still have units who have petty cash accounts, uniform shops, and other things that break the finance regs, not to mention far too many who can't seem to be able to submit a proper check request or F108  but are somehow able to complain about $20 worth of unreimbursed gas for their entire CAP career.

Emphasis mine.

OT question, Bob. Forgive me, since I've been out of the loop for 4 years and not paying attention to the evolution of wing banker (beyond what I implemented in 2008 as a commander) and the finance regs. Are you talking about like the unit supply box, or something more (like a pseudo-Hock Shop)?

My old unit, before wing banker (and, I suppose, after, but I don't think we ever thought about changing it) had a small cash box in logistics for making change for uniform supply purchases from the supply box.   

So cadets would get extra chevrons, ribbons, ribbon bars, etc, and might fork over $4-5 for them

By policy, the cash box never had more than $25 in it, and the money did not get used for ANYTHING but paying for insignia.  So it could not be used as a "petty cash" or "slush fund."  I think my logistics officer even did receipts for cash (its been awhile, I don't quite remember).  When there was more than $25 in the box, she put the extra cash in an envelope and it went to the finance officer for deposit (in the bank, prior to WBP, and in the Wing Banker "bank" after) as "materials sold" or some such.

Is that not allowed anymore?

[Eclipse]

They aren't prohibited as such, but within the bounds of the WBP I don't see how they are workable logistically.

I suppose if a unit wanted to spend funds and keep things on hand that a member could then buy via a check to the unit, that's one thing, but now that units can't make their own deposits, you have to convert all cash into a check or money order and then send it to wing.  A fair PITA.  That would mean that a cadet needing mosquito wings hands $3 to SM Finance, and he's got to then write a personal check of his own to wing, or run to the bank and make a deposit, also putting himself in the position of accepting and receiving funds and depositing them in a personal account. Never a good idea.

I also don't see any way to allow for a quantity of money to be kept on hand for change or when something is bought.
As soon as it's received it has to be tracked and sent to wing, and wings aren't allowed to accept cash.

It's not worth the hassle, especially in this Internet age when people can just get the stuff direct.

[Woodsy]

So by that line of thinking,  an honor-system "donation box" to put a couple quarters in when you take a drink out of the fridge is also a no-go?  I've seen that done at most units that have a fridge...  The money is usually taken straight from the box to the store to restock.

I guess it could be said that's not really squadron funds, but just member funds pooled to keep the fridge stocked. 

[Eclipse]

So by that line of thinking,  an honor-system "donation box" to put a couple quarters in when you take a drink out of the fridge is also a no-go?  I've seen that done at most units that have a fridge...  The money is usually taken straight from the box to the store to restock.

I guess it could be said that's not really squadron funds, but just member funds pooled to keep the fridge stocked.

I'd say it depends who stocked the fridge to begin with. If the member(s) stocked it with personal funds, probably no issue, if the unit stocked it, and
the money eventually is supposed to be deposited, then not allowed, or at least problematic.

I've seen all sorts of mental gymnastics designed to circumvent the rules - few, if any, are ultimately worth the potential trouble. 
"Everyone is friends here, and it's only a few bucks..." is fine, until it isn't, and then you've got complaints flying, SUIs dinged, etc., etc.

BTDT.

You have to bear in mind that the rules are in place, to a large extent, because of legitimate issues in the past - petty cash / supply box
funds "disappearing", fund raisers that paid for a members new car, or subsidized personal travel, unit or activity POCs who received
participation fees and left a group standing at the alter having never paid the bus company, or they paid out but the "extra" never
made it back to the unit or members (and no one notices until someone gets out a calculator on the actual activity) on and on.

Some are front-page scandals, most are small-dollar misunderstandings that result in hurt feelings and former members.  BTDT, too.
I personally know of at least one member who was terminated for stealing money from that fridge slush fund (security cameras are a harsh mistress).

When I first joined, I "knew better", just like most new members think they do.  Time and experience have taught me that for 99% of what
NHQ tells us to do, we should just do it and move on, instead of trying to push the line, or "do what's right", etc.

[NIN]

It's not worth the hassle, especially in this Internet age when people can just get the stuff direct.

OK, yeah, I handed over my unit right after WBP came into being, so I only had to deal with it for a short time (4-5 months, I think?) and we were all still figuring it out.

I do know that we kept a very tight reign on the supply box funds before WBP. My Finance Officer had a procedure he'd worked out with the Logistics Officer and it was very straight forward.  My Logistics Officer was very retentive about how much money was there, etc.

But the larger issue, the ability for the unit to take advantage of the "group buying power" for the purchase of insignia and such, is really lost when you lose the ability to do that kind of thing easily.

Buying stuff direct from Vanguard as an individual is a pain. I've only ever bought stuff from Vanguard a couple times and it was just, well, I wasn't thrilled with it.  We wanted to help streamline that process for members when and where possible.

Several times a year, the Logistics Officer would put the word out that she was making a Vanguard order (usually 2 of those coincided with Inprocessing Night, so she was ordering up all the insignia & logistics items for the basic flight, anyway) and parents would come in and plunk down cash & checks for insignia and we'd benefit from spreading the shipping cost across a LARGE order versus getting dinged for stupid shipping amounts for 10 ribbons and a 10 bar holder.

(But again, at that time my Finance Officer and the Logistics Officer had a system worked out for tracking cash receipts from the supply box, making deposits into the unit account, etc.  And the supply box money was ONLY for supply box purposes.  Not to get refreshments for Open House or whatever. Heck, when the armory's Coke machine changer was broken, I didn't feel right asking the Logistics Officer for 4 quarters for a dollar bill out of the supply box cash)

I guess I don't recall if we ever sent cash over to the Wing after WBP.

But my unit met 400m from Wing HQ, so its not inconceivable that we actually did that.

[jimmydeanno]

So by that line of thinking,  an honor-system "donation box" to put a couple quarters in when you take a drink out of the fridge is also a no-go?  I've seen that done at most units that have a fridge...  The money is usually taken straight from the box to the store to restock.

I guess it could be said that's not really squadron funds, but just member funds pooled to keep the fridge stocked.

The snack fund idea is fine.  However, under the WBP rules, the funds are supposed to be deposited immediately, since the unit isn't supposed to have a petty cash fund.  So, the procedure ends up being:

1) Unit purchases snacks.
2) Member puts money in can for snacks.
3) End of meeting, responsible person counts and takes accountability for the money.
4) Person deposits money into account.
5) Deposit is sent through the WBP
6) When more snacks are needed, start at #1 again.

The whole point is to have accountability of the funds the unit is using.  Having a slush fund or petty cash allows for redirection of funds and a general lack of accountability.  It doesn't mean that you can't have a snack fund, just get approval for your "fundraising" effort prior to opening shop.

[NC Hokie]

I suppose if a unit wanted to spend funds and keep things on hand that a member could then buy via a check to the unit, that's one thing, but now that units can't make their own deposits, you have to convert all cash into a check or money order and then send it to wing.

When did units lose the ability to make deposits? That wasn't the case in November when the most recent CAPR 173-1 was published.

r. Subordinate units must either deposit their funds in the bank account established by the
wing for subordinate unit funds or mail the checks directly to wing headquarters. Cash must not
be sent to wing for deposit. Cash must be immediately converted to a money order or check
before being submitted to wing for deposit. If the funds are deposited by the subordinate unit, it
must fax, scan and e-mail or mail deposit instructions to the wing advising proper allocation and
classification of the transaction along with a copy of the deposit slip to be received at wing HQ
within 7 days of making the bank deposit. After 1 year from the date of deposit and after making
at least three notices to all units of the date and amount of an unclaimed deposit, the unclaimed
funds will be allocated among all units participating in that bank account.

Is there an unpublished ICL or something that I'm unaware of?

[Eclipse]

4) Person deposits money into account.
5) Deposit is sent through the WBP

Incorrect.

Person must take the money and write a personal check which is then sent to wing.
Units are no longer allowed to deposit money locally, and Wings are not allowed to accept cash.

See next thread.

[Eclipse]

As to the local deposits issue, it looks like the Nov 2012 revision changed the language, in the "Summary of Changes":

"Units are no longer required to send donation checks to wing HQ, but must still send donation information..."

My emails in this regard from Feb 2011 indicate the language was that all "donation checks must be sent to wing".  Other then not trusting
the USPS to deliver them, I don't know why anyone would care, but I do know this caused gnashing of teeth in my wing.

So obviously there's no prohibition about making local deposits.

[jimmydeanno]

4) Person deposits money into account.
5) Deposit is sent through the WBP

Incorrect.

Person must take the money and write a personal check which is then sent to wing.
Units are no longer allowed to deposit money locally, and Wings are not allowed to accept cash.

r. Subordinate units must either deposit their funds in the bank account established by the
wing for subordinate unit funds or mail the checks directly to wing headquarters. Cash must not
be sent to wing for deposit. Cash must be immediately converted to a money order or check
before being submitted to wing for deposit. If the funds are deposited by the subordinate unit, it
must fax, scan and e-mail or mail deposit instructions to the wing advising proper allocation and
classification of the transaction along with a copy of the deposit slip to be received at wing HQ
within 7 days of making the bank deposit. After 1 year from the date of deposit and after making
at least three notices to all units of the date and amount of an unclaimed deposit, the unclaimed
funds will be allocated among all units participating in that bank account.

So, if there is a branch of the bank that the wing banks with, the local unit can drive their happy tails down there and deposit it themselves, and follow the "fax, scan, e-mail" option above.  You only need to convert the cash into cash or money order if you are mailing the deposit to wing.

[jimmydeanno]

As to the local deposits issue, it looks like the Nov 2012 revision changed the language, in the "Summary of Changes":

"Units are no longer required to send donation checks to wing HQ, but must still send donation information..."

My emails in this regard from Feb 2011 indicate the language was that all "donation checks must be sent to wing".  Other then not trusting
the USPS to deliver them, I don't know why anyone would care, but I do know this caused gnashing of teeth in my wing.

So obviously there's no prohibition about making local deposits.

The donation checks were supposed to be sent to Wing HQ because they were supposed to be endorsed by a corporate officer in order to be "officially accepted."  Other funds didn't matter.

So, unless your wing has some sort of supplement, or picked a bank that only has one location, local units can deposit their funds and just send the deposit slip and classification to Wing for processing and allocation in Quickbooks.

[NIN]

It doesn't mean that you can't have a snack fund, just get approval for your "fundraising" effort prior to opening shop.

That just took the ADY as the SnackO to a whole new pain level.

[jimmydeanno]

It doesn't mean that you can't have a snack fund, just get approval for your "fundraising" effort prior to opening shop.

That just took the ADY as the SnackO to a whole new pain level.

Not too bad.  We just submitted the SOP for the funds accountability and it was good to go.  The unit would buy like 3 months worth of snacks in bulk and the finance officer would do the deposits, with the snack-o verifying the amount.

Snack bars can be a pretty good "trickle" fundraiser.  Snacks bought for $0.25 sold at $0.50 can make some serious money over a year.  Our unit's most profitable year resulted in about $3k in -profit- from the snackbar.  Beverages have a better profit margin, too because their initial cost is cheaper.

[Slim]

"Round here, we've always been able to make deposits locally, then scan/email the receipt and a (wing created) WBP deposit form to the wing administrator.  She then logged the deposit in the unit account, and filed the form and receipt electronically, we kept a copy for our records, and everyone was happy. 

We ran our unit supply box as mentioned; small amount of cash/change on hand, member purchases an item, the logistics officer generated a receipt, anything over the set amount for change (IIRC, with was like $5-10 max) was taken by the LG (who was also finance officer) and deposited using the above procedure.  We never really generated a ton of sales out of it anyway, mostly ribbons at $1 a piece, we use a "Trade up" system for grade insignia; you buy a set of cutouts when you join, when you get your Curry, we exchange them for C/Amn insignia, rinse/repeat for Arnold through Armstrong, when they hit Mitchell, they're responsible for their buying/ordering their own stuff.  I doubt this has changed in the six months I've been gone. 

Also, FWIW, I never once worried about the integrity of the process of having my logistics and finance officer hats being on the same head.  He has always been very up front about what he does, the books always balanced out every month, and I've never once had a reason to question him.  Our finance procedures were listed as a best practice on an SUI under a previous commander, and were kept through my tenure.  It's also the same guy who was doing both jobs way back when Nin was commander of my squadron.

When I was encampment commander a few years back, all of the applications/fees came to my house.  I processed the applications, created a receipt, logged the incoming funds on an excel sheet, and did a hand off to the wing finance officer once or twice a week.  The big issue came during the week of the event.  We had all this money coming in (walk-in applications, clothing and hat sales, etc) to the tune of about $2000.  That was also the year wing changed from one major bank to another, and new bank didn't have a local branch; the closest was a 130 mile, 2.5 hour car ride away.  We maintained accountability for it, I kept it locked in my quarters until it was time to balance the books every day, then it went right back there.

I know of one unit in my group that has (or had--not sure) a booster club.  As I understand, it's been around for many years and was allowed to continue after WBP came along.  I'm going off five year old memory here, but as I recall, they funded things like uniforms, encampment scholarships and membership renewals for needy members of the unit, things that corporate funds couldn't be used for.  The year I was encampment commander, the club sponsored scholarships for all members of the squadron, cadet and senior.  They were properly/legally organized as a 501c3, etc, and their bylaws prohibited any member of the squadron from being on the board of directors and possibly even belonging to the club.  The commander could be called as a consultant or adviser, but couldn't be present when they voted on items.  Like I said, this is all five year old memories; for all I know, it could have shut down by now.

[Thom]

As a Squadron Commander who loves his local booster club, here's my thoughts:

1. If you want a REASON to have a booster club, you can look on Google Maps, at the East side of KBTR. That ~6500sq ft. building my squadron is in was built and paid for by the local booster club hosting Bingo nights once a week for a few years in the late 70s/early 80s. The building is perfect for our needs, and the booster club allows the squadron free use of it. No rent, no payment exchanged. The club's endowment interest (the club does much less fundraising now, though I'm not directly involved, so I don't keep track...) pays to keep the lights on. The club also allows the FAA, AOPA, and others to host events at the building, some for free, some for rent. Who wouldn't want a well-built, well-located, permanent home for their squadron. Hopefully in a couple of years the club will get their fundraising spooled up to build us a hangar. Then we'll really be set.

2. For those who say the only purpose of clubs is to siphon off money that should have been raised under CAP's auspices, I'll say they had a reason at the time. By erecting the building under the club's auspices, they made sure that it got built for the squadron's use. I believe (this predates my time here by about 30 years) that they worried that even if they raised the money as squadron funds (assuming the same profitable fundraising events would have been OK with CAP), that Wing/Region/NHQ wouldn't let them spend that much to build a permanent building. And if they did, CAP could just step in a year later and say: "Thanks, we need this building to be Wing HQ now. Move out." Whether the club approach is truly better for CAP in the long run is an open question, but it certainly has worked out well for the squadron.

3. If you don't want a club involved in your squadron's business, just say so. I haven't had to worry about it, because the local club does NOTHING for the squadron except provide a building. That's it. Zero dollars exchanged. No paying for Cadet trips, or anything else. And, as noted, they also support other organizations. But if they were to raise the specter of doing something I didn't approve of, I'd just say NO. As long as you have the approval of your Group and Wing Commanders, you can shut down bad ideas easily. You just have to utilize that command authority.

4. Wing Banker has been a non-issue for us. Anyone who doesn't know how to do F108s correctly gets remedial training until they do. We don't accept cash, and deposits are easy. The snacko stuff is done entirely with non-CAP, non-Squadron money, so no problems there. It does remind me though, I wasn't sure how we would handle selling Cadets their squadron patches, but we're out of them and I have to find a new place to have them done. (The old stash of patches was done in the 90s, they apparently bought like 500 of the things, and we finally ran out...)

I think that covers it.


Thom

[Eclipse]

2. For those who say the only purpose of clubs is to siphon off money that should have been raised under CAP's auspices, I'll say they had a reason at the time. By erecting the building under the club's auspices, they made sure that it got built for the squadron's use. I believe (this predates my time here by about 30 years) that they worried that even if they raised the money as squadron funds (assuming the same profitable fundraising events would have been OK with CAP), that Wing/Region/NHQ wouldn't let them spend that much to build a permanent building. And if they did, CAP could just step in a year later and say: "Thanks, we need this building to be Wing HQ now. Move out." Whether the club approach is truly better for CAP in the long run is an open question, but it certainly has worked out well for the squadron.

Pretty much made my point on this.

So if wing replaces the CC and the booster club doesn't like the new guy? That's not how CAP is supposed to work.

3. If you don't want a club involved in your squadron's business, just say so. I haven't had to worry about it, because the local club does NOTHING for the squadron except provide a building. That's it. Zero dollars exchanged. No paying for Cadet trips, or anything else. And, as noted, they also support other organizations. But if they were to raise the specter of doing something I didn't approve of, I'd just say NO. As long as you have the approval of your Group and Wing Commanders, you can shut down bad ideas easily. You just have to utilize that command authority.

How are you going to say "no"? You have no say in what they do.

[cap235629]

I would like someone to provide a simple example of a reason to have one of these clubs.

In the example above, you're circumventing both the CAP policy of negotiating with large entities at the squadron level,
and likely the intent of the grant in terms of the intended recipients.

People trying to use a booster club to game the system are asking for serious trouble.

To build on another thread, The 83rd Composite Squadron Support Group (our squadron's "booster club") Applied for and received funding to purchase competition level air rifles for our squadron's marksmanship program.  CAP regs do not allow squadrons or even wings to "own" firearms or air rifles.  The ownership remains with the support group and the support group "loans" the rifles to the program.....

[NIN]

Took me a minute, KBTR also hosts the Wing HQ just down the very same street, it seems, so I had to kind of go "that looks like a HQ..." but then Street View solved it for me

On a similar note (WRT buildings, etc):  12+ years ago, we had a gent come from the UK and join CAP here.  He had been (and is again now that he's back in the UK) in the Air Cadets, and while he was in CAP here he'd come down and visit my squadron frequently where we met in the ARNG Armory in town.

He said to me one day "I don't get it.  The biggest, most powerful Air Force in the world, and they can't build some buildings for their cadets?"

I said "What do you mean?"

Apparently, in the UK, there is a sort of foundation or similar that is separate from the Air Cadets but either directly controlled or tied into both it and the RAF that handles all the real estate for the Air Cadets, manages all the buildings, contracts for utilities, etc.  They built my friend a BRAND NEW squadron HQ about 2 years ago, even (if you can see it: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.115307765203154.19224.115289971871600&type=3  and https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.169738969760033.50208.115289971871600&type=3)

EVERY ATC unit that is established has a building.  None of this fly-by-night in the terminal of the airport or church basement stuff.

He was just literally stunned that the biggest, most bad-ass "Fly, fight and win" Air Force, the USAF, couldn't be bothered to find a way to supply their cadets with a "proper building" (in his words).

[Private Investigator]

I am glad it worked out for some. Because adult personalities tend to be, well not adult, IMHO   

[Duke Dillio]

I've been involved with squadrons that have booster clubs and it can be quite beneficial.  Eclipse asked about why anyone would want a booster club.  The simple answer is that booster clubs can raise funds in ways that are banned by CAP regulation.  Is this a workaround of the system?  IMO, not really.  The reason that most fundraising activities are banned by CAP is because the corporation is trying to protect itself from liability.  They also try to avoid activities which might look poorly upon CAP.  So PR and liability issues are the two reasons for the regulation.

Insert a booster club who accepts all liability and is willing to conduct fundraising activities which "look poorly."  Give it a name that doesn't indicate affiliation with CAP or the local squadron.  Set it up so that the bylaws for that organization prevent undue political interest in the local unit (the hardest part IMO) and wham power money maker.

One of the reasons why the unit booster club was so successful where I was before was because they got in with a bingo hall (completely against CAP regulation).  Bingo can net you some serious cash if you know how to run it correctly.  The booster club paid for NCSA's for cadets, ran a scholarship program, and provided additional cash infusion to the squadron.  If setup properly, booster clubs can be great.  We just always hear about the ones that are....  um....  not so great....

[MajorM]

In the example I provided there is no circumventing anything, though I'm glad you can cast yourself as judge Eclipse.

The booster club meets the requirements set forth by the Funder in an open, competitive application process.  But as part of the application the club must provide proof of the agreement between CAP and the club.  Of course only the Wing CC can sign such an agreement as it is a contract.  So that provides the tie in to the established structure. 

As far as whether npo's ever fund other npo's... That happens all the time.  I work as a VP for a large regional npo.  We fund other npo's on a regular basis. We have the grant staff and capacity to get funding that we then pass on, via contracts, to fellow npo's.

In addition, foundations are npo's that must fund other npo's.  Hence if I was establishing a "booster club" I'd probably pursue the foundation route.

How common are they?  No clue.  However I've belonged to six squadrons in my time.  Five of those had active 501c3 support organizations.  Small datasets provide small data, but that's my experience.

Booster clubs shouldn't be approached lightly.  They require a firm understanding of non-profit law and operations.  They also create another organization that requires care and feeding.  If you lack senior support for the basic missions then a booster club isn't going to help.

[Walkman]

Eclipse - You do raise some very valid points and I agree that there are probably some bad eggs out there. I do think that if done correctly and run by people with integrity, they can be a benefit. It's a fine line to walk, however, because there with money and power runs the potential for the abuse of both, so it's good to be cautious.

One thing that a booster club can do as a proper npo is set up investments to continue building on funds year over year. A former cadet in another unit invested a significant sum in a program to be able to continually be able to provide encampment scholarships to cadets in need. He felt he owed a great deal to CAP for who he became and wanted to do what he could to provide as many other cadets the opportunities as possible.

[jimmydeanno]

One thing that a booster club can do as a proper npo is set up investments to continue building on funds year over year.

Just as an FYI, local units can also set up investments:

b. Units below wing level may invest funds in certificates of deposit or other investment instruments. All funds so invested must be readily available without loss of principal.

There isn't anything stopping a unit with sufficient capital from investing in something that would/could provide scholarships in the future.

[Walkman]

One thing that a booster club can do as a proper npo is set up investments to continue building on funds year over year.

Just as an FYI, local units can also set up investments:

b. Units below wing level may invest funds in certificates of deposit or other investment instruments. All funds so invested must be readily available without loss of principal.

There isn't anything stopping a unit with sufficient capital from investing in something that would/could provide scholarships in the future.

Learn something new every day!

[LGM30GMCC]

Took me a minute, KBTR also hosts the Wing HQ just down the very same street, it seems, so I had to kind of go "that looks like a HQ..." but then Street View solved it for me

On a similar note (WRT buildings, etc):  12+ years ago, we had a gent come from the UK and join CAP here.  He had been (and is again now that he's back in the UK) in the Air Cadets, and while he was in CAP here he'd come down and visit my squadron frequently where we met in the ARNG Armory in town.

He said to me one day "I don't get it.  The biggest, most powerful Air Force in the world, and they can't build some buildings for their cadets?"

I said "What do you mean?"

Apparently, in the UK, there is a sort of foundation or similar that is separate from the Air Cadets but either directly controlled or tied into both it and the RAF that handles all the real estate for the Air Cadets, manages all the buildings, contracts for utilities, etc.  They built my friend a BRAND NEW squadron HQ about 2 years ago, even (if you can see it: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.115307765203154.19224.115289971871600&type=3  and https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.169738969760033.50208.115289971871600&type=3)

EVERY ATC unit that is established has a building.  None of this fly-by-night in the terminal of the airport or church basement stuff.

He was just literally stunned that the biggest, most bad-ass "Fly, fight and win" Air Force, the USAF, couldn't be bothered to find a way to supply their cadets with a "proper building" (in his words).

Having spoken with the (now) head of the Air Cadet League of Canada (Worked with her for a WAA event in MT) I got a bit of a different perspective on how they do things. There are the all volunteer Air Cadet League of Canada sorts who do not directly do the training or whatnot, do not wear uniforms, and are otherwise purely a support/fundraising function. That's the ACLC. The Royal Canadian Air Cadets are the actually training folks and the cadets themselves. My understanding is you can't be an active member of both at the same time. The RCAC officers are no kidding commissioned officers in the ministry of defense who serve very much part time. They promote and are paid in a system that is similar to the RCAF but they are only paid for some of their time. (Encampments and the like.)

This system does provide a number of benefits but their is a no kidding wait list both for training and to become an officer in the RCAC. You can't just join up and help train or whatever, if you're a parent or whatnot you can join the ACLC and work to support the organization as a whole, but you won't be able to participate in the training.

Also, the RCAC (And similar outfits) are a lot more like JROTC than CAP. They have no operational mission and are 100% a cadet program. This again does provide some benefits, but also limits what they do.

That's one of the biggest fundamental differences between CAP and any other organization out there. CAP isn't a cadet or youth program. CAP has a cadet program. Fundamentally that is a pretty big difference. While the Cadet stuff is awesome and very popular among some of the senior officers in the USAF, where we really win points and the like is on the operational side of the house mixed in WITH the cadet program. It's the whole package, without one or the other the USAF very likely would be less inclined to care at all.

[NIN]

The fill I got from him on that, BTW, broke down like this:

He just go a brand spanking new building. About £300k in cost.  So did his mate at a nearby unit.

The way it gets funded is like this: Tax payer --> MoD --> RAF --> ACO --> Reserve Forces Cadet Association

So the RFCA is probably the blanket organisation that handles RAF (ATC) and Army Cadets in the UK, at the very least.

His "wing" has 35 squadrons. They don't all have buildings, some meet at TA facilities.   But they have ~$10-14 million in real estate just in his wing, and overall cadets get something like £130M from the public purse to fund/support about 1000 units.

(holy cow, £130M?)