Verification process for the recruiting ribbon

[xray328]

I've looked everywhere I can think of and can't find how we verify that cadets qualify for the recruiting ribbon.  If a cadet tells us they recruited two members (and the members verify that) is that all we need before awarding the ribbon?  I know the application asks for that info, is it in e-service somewhere I'm not seeing? If a new cadet doesn't put that info on the application would the recruiting cadet not get "official" credit or is there a way to fix it after the fact?

Thanks!

[stillamarine]

I'm making a board with each member's name and putting it up so I can track it.

[kwe1009]

You can enter recruiting information in eServices: Click on "Membership System" and then "Recruiting Info."  You put in the name or CAPID of the recriutee and then you can assign the recruiter to them.  Then under "Member Reports" from the main page you can pull up a recruiting report.  This goes for both the Senior and Cadet Recruiter Ribbon.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Interesting...I'll have to check it out.

[arajca]

If the new recruit filled out that block on the application, National will have already entered it there.

[avguy]

If the new recruit filled out that block on the application, National will have already entered it there.

The current online cadet application does not have a block for inputting recruiting/recruiter information.  That's the one feature of the paper application that I miss.

Good topic for the initial CC/CDC discussion with the prospective cadet and their parent about how they found out about CAP.

[kwe1009]

If the new recruit filled out that block on the application, National will have already entered it there.

Not always from what I have seen.  It is always a good idea to verify.

[MacGruff]

Within e-services, go to Member Reports.

There is a "recruiting" report in the drop down that will show you all the information logged in. Please be careful to set the dates of the report properly or you will get some goofy results.

Also, there are some errors in it. For instance, I've recruited 7 people so far - the report shows my total as 6 but then lists all 7 (!!) against my name.

From reading the regs, to be awarded the recruiting ribbon, you have to fill out a Form 2a and send it up the chain. For recruiter ribbons it goes to Wing (unless the Wing Commander delegated that authority). When the Wing endorses it, the Form 2a comes back and should be put in the person's file. The Squadron Commander would then award the ribbon at the next appropriate occasion.

[NIN]

From reading the regs, to be awarded the recruiting ribbon, you have to fill out a Form 2a and send it up the chain. For recruiter ribbons it goes to Wing (unless the Wing Commander delegated that authority). When the Wing endorses it, the Form 2a comes back and should be put in the person's file. The Squadron Commander would then award the ribbon at the next appropriate occasion.

Not sure which reg you're reading.

k. Recruiter Ribbons. Awarded by the unit commander to cadets and senior members in recognition of outstanding efforts to recruit new members for CAP.
(1) Cadet Ribbon. Awarded to cadets who recruit two new qualified cadets or senior members for CAP. A bronze clasp is awarded for each additional two members recruited. A silver clasp replaces five bronze clasps. Bronze clasps are not worn after the silver clasp is awarded. An additional silver clasp will be awarded for each additional 10 members recruited.
(2) Senior Ribbon. Awarded to senior members who recruit seven new qualified cadets or senior members for CAP. A bronze clasp is awarded for each additional 10 members recruited. A silver clasp replaces five bronze clasps. Bronze clasps are not worn after the silver clasp is awarded. An additional silver clasp is awarded for each additional 50 members recruited. Members recruited as a cadet may be included in determining entitlement in the case of senior members who were former cadets.

Emphasis mine.

While para 19 suggests that Wing Commanders award activity & service ribbons to their units, and that the authority to award may be delegated downward, I think in practice you'll find that most wings are not interested in signing off on CAPF 2As for Cadet Timmy to get credit for his 2 recruited members and that a CAPF 2A signed by the unit commander, especially when the Service Ribbon says "awarded by the unit commander," is sufficient.

I could be wrong, and to be fair, wings should have a supplement or policy letter dictating what activity and service ribbons can be handled at what levels. I know from my standpoint as a Wing DP, I prefer to have many of these things handled at the lowest possible level.  There is really no value add that Wing can provide Cadet Timmy in the approval of a service ribbon where the proof of completion is held at the unit level anyway.

And I've always told my cadets "Fill out the CAPF 2A, and in the remarks section put down the name and CAPID of the two cadets you recruited."  I then cross check, because the "recruiter's" name & CAPID didn't always make it onto the CAPF 12 or 15, and in 99% of the cases I know, that cadet knows he "did the work" to get a particular cadet into the organization.  I'll ask the cadet who was recruited "Hey, did Cadet Steve recruit you?"  That kind of thing.

I've very, very seldom seen instances where a cadet was trying to pad his numbers and take credit for others. I'm usually able to shut that down pretty quickly.

[MacGruff]

From reading the regs, to be awarded the recruiting ribbon, you have to fill out a Form 2a and send it up the chain. For recruiter ribbons it goes to Wing (unless the Wing Commander delegated that authority). When the Wing endorses it, the Form 2a comes back and should be put in the person's file. The Squadron Commander would then award the ribbon at the next appropriate occasion.

Not sure which reg you're reading.

Same one you were reading, actually. Although I am referencing Section F. 19.

19. Administration Procedures for Award of Activity and Service Ribbons. The individual
member is responsible for preparing and submitting to the unit commander CAP Form 2a, Request
for and Approval of Personnel Actions, when the requirements for an activity or service ribbon have
been completed. The CAP Form 2a is then forwarded by the unit commander to the appropriate
approving authority. (If the unit commander has been delegated approving authority by the wing
commander as outlined in paragraph 18b, the unit commander simply approves the form and returns
it to the recipient for placement in the member's personnel file.) Upon approval, activity and service
ribbons are purchased by the awarding unit or by the individual recipient, as appropriate.

I like what I hear about your wing and in the case of this kind of ribbon, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Unfortunately the wing that I am in has a wing commander who appears to be a micromanager and these kinds of things need to be approved by him - as he wants to be involved in EVERYTHING. Makes his life super busy, I suppose.

[NIN]

From reading the regs, to be awarded the recruiting ribbon, you have to fill out a Form 2a and send it up the chain. For recruiter ribbons it goes to Wing (unless the Wing Commander delegated that authority). When the Wing endorses it, the Form 2a comes back and should be put in the person's file. The Squadron Commander would then award the ribbon at the next appropriate occasion.

Not sure which reg you're reading.

Same one you were reading, actually. Although I am referencing Section F. 19.

19. Administration Procedures for Award of Activity and Service Ribbons. The individual
member is responsible for preparing and submitting to the unit commander CAP Form 2a, Request
for and Approval of Personnel Actions, when the requirements for an activity or service ribbon have
been completed. The CAP Form 2a is then forwarded by the unit commander to the appropriate
approving authority. (If the unit commander has been delegated approving authority by the wing
commander as outlined in paragraph 18b, the unit commander simply approves the form and returns
it to the recipient for placement in the member's personnel file.) Upon approval, activity and service
ribbons are purchased by the awarding unit or by the individual recipient, as appropriate.

I like what I hear about your wing and in the case of this kind of ribbon, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Unfortunately the wing that I am in has a wing commander who appears to be a micromanager and these kinds of things need to be approved by him - as he wants to be involved in EVERYTHING. Makes his life super busy, I suppose.

Hmm. Bummer.

Frankly, I'm not seeing "Stolen Recruiter" as a problem, hence the desire to push things like that, Community Service, Red Service, etc, down to the lowest level. 

CAPF2A, Red Service Ribbon.  I don't need to see it. The unit can look at the cadet's record and see "2 years service." Heck, that thing should just appear in eServices.  There is really no additional thing I, as the Wing DP, can add.  "Hey, Awards Committee, we have before us the Red Service Ribbon of one Cadet C/CMSgt Joseph P. Bagodonuts.  He has 2 years and one month service in Civil Air Patrol, and is an active participant in his unit.  Per CAPR 39-3, para 21b, he is qualified for the award of the Red Service Ribbon.  How shall ye vote?" 

"Deny." "Deny." "Approve." 

Wait, wat? 

"Sorry, Chief Bagodonuts, but apparently the awards committee thing you have some 'bad time' in your last 2 years.."

[SarDragon]

From reading the regs, to be awarded the recruiting ribbon, you have to fill out a Form 2a and send it up the chain. For recruiter ribbons it goes to Wing (unless the Wing Commander delegated that authority). When the Wing endorses it, the Form 2a comes back and should be put in the person's file. The Squadron Commander would then award the ribbon at the next appropriate occasion.

Not sure which reg you're reading.

Same one you were reading, actually. Although I am referencing Section F. 19.

19. Administration Procedures for Award of Activity and Service Ribbons. The individual
member is responsible for preparing and submitting to the unit commander CAP Form 2a, Request
for and Approval of Personnel Actions, when the requirements for an activity or service ribbon have
been completed. The CAP Form 2a is then forwarded by the unit commander to the appropriate
approving authority. (If the unit commander has been delegated approving authority by the wing
commander as outlined in paragraph 18b, the unit commander simply approves the form and returns
it to the recipient for placement in the member's personnel file.) Upon approval, activity and service
ribbons are purchased by the awarding unit or by the individual recipient, as appropriate.

I like what I hear about your wing and in the case of this kind of ribbon, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Unfortunately the wing that I am in has a wing commander who appears to be a micromanager and these kinds of things need to be approved by him - as he wants to be involved in EVERYTHING. Makes his life super busy, I suppose.

OK, let's put this all together:

19. Administration Procedures for Award of Activity and Service Ribbons. The individual
member is responsible for preparing and submitting to the unit commander CAP Form 2a, Request
for and Approval of Personnel Actions, when the requirements for an activity or service ribbon have
been completed. The CAP Form 2a is then forwarded by the unit commander to the appropriate
approving authority.

and

k. Recruiter Ribbons. Awarded by the unit commander

Therefore, the 2a stops at the unit commander's desk.

[Lord of the North]

Dave, you skipped the step in para 19 which states The CAP Form 2a is then forwarded by the unit commander to the appropriate
approving authority. (If the unit commander has been delegated approving authority by the wing
commander as outlined in paragraph 18b, the unit commander simply approves the form and returns
it to the recipient for placement in the member's personnel file.)

The authority to delegate is available to every wing commander if they chose to do so.

If this has not been done, then the statement you quoted from Nin is incorrect.

[arajca]

For the approving authority, you'll need to look one paragraph up to 18.

18. Authority to Award Ribbons.
a. Region commanders award activity and service ribbons to members of the region staff and
members of the region headquarters.

b.Wing  commanders  award  activity  and  service  ribbons  to  members  of  their  staffs  and  to
members of units within their wings.  Authority to award these activity and service ribbons may be
delegated to group and squadron commanders at the discretion of the wing commander.

As has been stated, unless the wing commander has delegated the authority to group and/or unit commanders, it remains at the wing commander.

[SarDragon]

What about - k. Recruiter Ribbons. Awarded by the unit commander ?

Why does this need to go any farther up the chain?

[MacGruff]

Awarded by the unit commander.  Check.

Approved by a higher level unless authority was moved down to lower levels.  Check.

By the way, I filed a HelpDesk request on the mistakes in the Recruiter Report and just got an email that they fixed the problem. I checked it for my unit and it is indeed fixed.

Hurray!

[arajca]

What about - k. Recruiter Ribbons. Awarded by the unit commander ?

Why does this need to go any farther up the chain?

Because, unless otherwise delegated by the wing commander, the regulations say the APPROVING AUTHORITY is the wing commander.

Apparently, there is a conflict in the reg. Everyone who is surprised raise your hands.

[lordmonar]

What about - k. Recruiter Ribbons. Awarded by the unit commander ?

Why does this need to go any farther up the chain?

Because, unless otherwise delegated by the wing commander, the regulations say the APPROVING AUTHORITY is the wing commander.

Where is the line SARDragon keeps harping on? It is not in CAPR 35-3.

No the Reg says they it's the unit commander.

[SarDragon]

Generally:

18.b.Wing  commanders  award  activity  and  service  ribbons  to  members  of  their  staffs  and  to
members of units within their wings.

Specifically, later on:

21.k. Recruiter Ribbons. Awarded by the unit commander to cadets and senior members in recognition of outstanding efforts to recruit new members for CAP.

Seems pretty clear to me. The reg delegates authority up front.