Rifles for Color Guard that are realistic

[AngelWings]

I am looking to acquire two drill rifles for my squadron that are 100% realistic to an actual rifle, modeled after the M-1903 Springfield, M-1 Garand, or M-14 (which is basically non exsistant, just an idea to mimic what I've seen in USAF use before that I thought looked incredibly sharp). I really would prefer a wood model, but a nice and durable plastic model would work too. I do not want to pay $800 a rifle to get the real demilitarized versions.

Any help would be appreciated. I know this has been discussed before, but I am not sure if someone has found some supplier since.

[Extremepredjudice]

http://www.paradestore.com/detail.aspx?ID=311

[Al Sayre]

http://www.westernband.com/Pages/ROTC.htm 

Scroll down to the "Mark One Parade Rifles" Same rifles as above, but ~ $20 cheaper

[Extremepredjudice]

http://www.westernband.com/Pages/ROTC.htm 

Scroll down to the "Mark One Parade Rifles" Same rifles as above, but ~ $20 cheaper

Umm, are they legit? It looks like a 3 year old made the site in DW1

[Garibaldi]

The only idea I have would be to buy an airsoft rifle, take out the innards, and fill them with some inert material so they can never fire again, enough so that the weight is identical to a real one. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

http://www.westernband.com/Pages/ROTC.htm 

Scroll down to the "Mark One Parade Rifles" Same rifles as above, but ~ $20 cheaper

Umm, are they legit? It looks like a 3 year old made the site in DW1

Site is lacking but I didn't find anything bad on their business.

[NIN]

You want "Drill America" M-1 Garands.  Trust me.

http://www.paradestore.com/detail.aspx?ID=1109

These rifles are a composite material (fiberglas?  Not "plastic") and solid.  They won't withstand you bouncing them off the ground repeatedly and still look nice, however.

My old unit has two. They keep them in decent rifle cases and have taken VERY good care of them over the years. The color guard cadets "pass along" the "YOU WILL RESPECT THIS RIFLE" mantra to each new cadet who comes on the color guard, so it is clear that they're not playthings but rather they are expensive and need to be cared for.

From 2-3 ft away, you'd be convinced it was a Garand.

[Майор Хаткевич]

They are also HEAVY.

[NIN]

They are also HEAVY.

I've marched, drilled and performed firing party detail with an M-1. You're not kidding.

However, the OP did say "I am looking to acquire two drill rifles for my squadron that are 100% realistic to an actual rifle,"

Apparently that applies to weight as well.

[AngelWings]

I've dealt with those M-1's before in JROTC, and the thing that scares me is that they will get scratched up and lose their sharp appearence through regular wear and tear. However I believe such damage could be prevented with proper care

The reason I want the weight is so cadets know that I am not joking about them performing to standard, and also so I can elimate cadets who just want to look purdy and are not truely serious about the team. The 2 pound rifles my squadron has today are not of high quality and the weight is meant for a rifle I'd throw in the sky and catch, not have a Color Guard perform with in areas with cameras. If a lighter version exsists, I might get it.

The authenticity is key here, also, for attention to detail purposes.

I looked on that website, and those M-1903's look beautiful! I like both, but the M-1903's look perfect for my team!

[Майор Хаткевич]

How many cadets at the age of 12-13 could do a mile+ long parade with those M1s?

[Garibaldi]

How many cadets at the age of 12-13 could do a mile+ long parade with those M1s?

Cadets? Probably a lot. I marched in a parade color guard as a SM. We were all SMs, the flag bearer was a LTC and I was a rifle bearer. I carried that thing for the better part of 2 miles and when we finally stopped, I couldn't unbend my arm without screaming. The tendon had locked up and it didn't get better for weeks. Cadets are a little more resilient.

[Майор Хаткевич]

How many cadets at the age of 12-13 could do a mile+ long parade with those M1s?

Cadets? Probably a lot. I marched in a parade color guard as a SM. We were all SMs, the flag bearer was a LTC and I was a rifle bearer. I carried that thing for the better part of 2 miles and when we finally stopped, I couldn't unbend my arm without screaming. The tendon had locked up and it didn't get better for weeks. Cadets are a little more resilient.

Some 12 year old cadets barely weight more than the rifles...

[NIN]

How many cadets at the age of 12-13 could do a mile+ long parade with those M1s?

Cadets? Probably a lot. I marched in a parade color guard as a SM. We were all SMs, the flag bearer was a LTC and I was a rifle bearer. I carried that thing for the better part of 2 miles and when we finally stopped, I couldn't unbend my arm without screaming. The tendon had locked up and it didn't get better for weeks. Cadets are a little more resilient.

About a million years ago or so, I was one of the rifle guys on my battalion's color guard for the 17th Aviation Group's change of command at K-16 airbase just southeast of Seoul (now probably surrounded by 12 story apartment buildings).  Having been to the usual CAP encampment graduation parade practices, I knew what to expect out of the practice session the week before. However, I did not expect to discover that the Army excels at taking at task that takes teenagers a couple hours to figure out and execute and making it into a daylong affair...  But I digress.

Come the day of the ceremony, we're out there at attention (and in my case, "Right Shoulder") for at least 30 minutes prior to the start of the ceremony.  Then there is the ceremony.  Present arms, right shoulder arms. Here comes the reviewing party. Present arms, right shoulder arms.  Now its time for the various people (read as "Senior leaders") to tell us how great the new commander is, how much the old commander will be missed, etc.  Talking. Talking. And talking.  Blah, blah, blah, best aviation group in the Army, whatever.  Everybody else is at parade rest or something, but for some reason, the color guards have to remain at attention.  Never did figure that one out. 

Finally we do the "pass in review" part of the ceremony.  Just after the reviewing stand,  our battalion is going to pull a hard right into a different part of the flightline to dismiss.  The senior rifle guy goes "Left shouul-der, ARMS!" and we both execute, and as I bring my right arm down to my side, it was like someone stuck a giant hot poker in my right elbow and the surrounding tendons.  I'm not ashamed to admit I cried a little. LOL.  I think we'd been at right shoulder for at least an hour, probably closer to 90 minutes, with only two or three excursions to present arms in the interim.  (which, if you're doing it right, only takes the weight off the elbow, doesn't extend it at all)

Couple years later, after the Gulf War (the first one), I got asked to put together a detail of CAP folks for a firing party at a town Memorial Day parade.  Well, of course, CAP doesn't do rifle salutes. So I said "I can put together a firing party, but it will be a joint-service firing party, is that OK?"  There winds up being 7 of us: 2 hardcore Army types (me included), a former CAP guy turned Lance Criminal who I'd only met that morning, a CAP guy who was, sadly, also a squid, and then 3 CAP folks who were in the ANG security forces unit.   I didn't know any puddle pirates, so the Coasties lost out. <<LOL>>

We meet the VFW guys at the beginning of the parade to get the M-1s from them for the firing detail, and we're thinking "OK, we get down to the cemetery, get setup, practice this a couple times, wait for the parade to arrive.."  when the Marshal of the parade comes up and says "Do you guys mind marching in the parade?" (its going to be around a mile or so of marching). I look at the party I've assembled. "You guys wanna march?"  Everybody is nodding except the ANG types, who are hefting these M-1s with that "You mean people actually -carried- these rifles?" look on their faces.

So we wind up sort of unexpectedly marching in the parade with about 20 minutes notice.  We practiced Order to Port, Port to Right Shoulder, Present Arms, the firing sequence, etc.  All we need to do is get these rifles on our shoulders and we should be good to go.

I never heard complaining from Joes like I heard out of those ANG types. Well, just the junior enlisted were complaining. The MSgt was ex-Army and he might have actually trained with an M-14 or a Garand.

Midway thru the parade, I'm going "rifle angle" and "keep it on your shoulder" and "90 degrees at the elbow" as the ANG guys start looking like Elmer Fudd going hunting with the rifle sliding down their sholders.  The Marine is locked on, as I would expect.  The Navy guy is rather stoically marching, probably thinking "This is exactly why I joined the Navy instead of the Army.."   All I can hear out of the ANG types is "How much further is it?"  "Man, this rifle is -heavy-"  "Can't we just sling them?" "I want my mommy.." (I mean, come on: security forces is the AF's "infantry".. you'd think they'd have some interest/familiarity with weapons and hardship..)  And us two Army guys are basically thinking "There is no way we're gonna let on what a pain in the butt this is in front of a squid, a jarhead and a couple weaponettes." 

Thankfully, nobody suffered an injury enroute to the cemetery and the firing detail went off pretty much without a hitch considering how very little practice we actually had as a single group... Good times.

[Brad]

I agree with Nin. As a former NJROTC cadet and NROTC Midshipman (at least until the Navy ran me off on a medical), all I've worked with are service-weight 1903s and M1s. They may seem "heavy" to some, but that's all I know. Carried them since I was 14.  To me, the replicas that the Air Force tends to use seem light.

I still remember the ones we had in high school were actual demilitarized WWII weapons; the firing pin was removed, the bolt was locked in place to prevent M1 Thumb, and the barrel was split down the underside and filled with cement. Sure the body was a fiberglass replica for durability, but the metal parts was still as real as real can be. We even had to memorize our serial number.

Our DTC (Drill Team Commander) even had a rifle that still had a real wooden body all the way from butt to muzzle. We all called her "Tiger" due to the striping on the stock. Shame when the upper handguard broke during exhibition practice.

Yes you heard right, we did exhibition drill with those "heavy" things. Took some trophies too. I can still do it to this day, and when I pick up a light rifle to spin, I end up having to restrain myself else it gets sent flying down the drill pad.


We all considered it a great honor to carry weapons that had actually been used in WWII. We were almost up in arms ourselves when towards the end of our Senior year the Navy ordered all the rifles returned and they replaced them with weighted Daisy 1903 replicas, aka fakes!

http://www.odcmp.org/503/daisy_drill.asp

Trust me, the impression you will make is worth the extra expense and physical endurance!

[NIN]

I failed to mention that the parade was the first time I'd ever handled an M-1.  I picked it up and my brain immediately said "Oh, you're gonna pay for this one, Ninness."  The look on my face, however, was "Well, that ain't too bad." (gotta keep up appearances!)

I had to get a familiarization from the VFW guys, and then I got to familiarize our folks.  Nothing like being handed a rifle loaded with blanks and *then* being familiarized on it.

[Al Sayre]

http://www.westernband.com/Pages/ROTC.htm 

Scroll down to the "Mark One Parade Rifles" Same rifles as above, but ~ $20 cheaper

Umm, are they legit? It looks like a 3 year old made the site in DW1

Yes, they are legit.  My old squadron bought 6 from them a couple of years ago.  They look pretty good, and hold up well.

[ol'fido]

My first experience with the M1 and the M1903 in the color guard sense came during my freshman year at high school. I wanted to try at that time for a service academy appointment. That is also kind of why I joined CAP. So, I talked my mom into letting me go to a military school for my freshman year. Big mistake. I lasted six weeks before I said enough! I was tired of dealing with kids who were thugs, delinquents, and malcontents.

Anyway, I tried out for and made it to the color guard before I left.  We were given de-miled M1903s for our rifles and I kept mine in my room. I was constantly practicing with it. I don't remember it being that heavy. I also learned to do q quick field strip of an M1 Garand, but I didn't learn it from the staff at the school. I learned it from the prop master of a movie company. I was at the St. John's Military School in Salina, KS and the school was hosting a movie production company that was making a film called "Up the Academy". It was basically Porky's goes to military school. Some of the people in it were Ron Liebman, Tom Poston(The Bob Newhart Show), Antonio fargas( Huggy Bear on Starsky and Hutch), Barbara Bach, Daisy Duke's Sister and Ringo Starr's squeeze(Stuck up!), and Ralph Maccio, the karate Kid. I taught him some drill moves, but didn't realize who he was until years later when I caught the flic on cable. Anyway, they used us real cadets in the film and for one scene they had a bunch of us field strip an M1 as fast as possible. I think it was for the segment on Parent's day.

The other time I dealt with realistic M1s for CG use was 10 or 11 years ago at the ILWG CG competition. It was held at the wing HQ at Dupage AP. One of the teams( It might have been Springfield) brought M1s they had borrowed(?) from a local VFW or AL. Now that I think about it, this must have been 2002 when this happened because all the post-9/11 security measures were still in place. Well, part of the competition is at the aiirport's main terminal(  We'rre not talking O'hare here but still...). So the rest of the teams come in with their obviously fake color guard rifles in cases and proceed to get ready. the team with the M1s walks in with the rifles already out and carried at port arms. I could only think of the healdlines, "CAP  CADETS CAUSE PANIC AT LOCAL AIRPORT WITH FAKE GUNS". I was thankful we were all in blues, because if we had been in BDUs, I think that headline would be for real.

Lesson: If you do get realistic rifle replicas, make sure you handle in a way that doesn't give Joe and Jane Public a panic attack.

[Garibaldi]

Wow! I remember that movie! And you had a wee part in it...

[abdsp51]

If you are looking for Color Guard only, obtain what you can afford to obtain and what will be functional.  There is no need to shell out for something that is not going to work for you because it's all glamor.

[LTC Don]

Gunbroker has a replica section HERE with quite a few items.  From time to time they have M1s and M14s listed as well as a host of other rifles that would make good Color Guard choices.


Here's a Garand listed here:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=318044334


Another possible source --
http://www.keystonearsenal.com/category/WWII-Guns-5

[sarmed1]

On the airsoft thought process I came accross this the other day

http://winchesterairrifles.com/Products/M14.aspx

Amazon had a price listing of $170; weight was like 6 pounds ....ish



mk

[NIN]

Holy smokes those look nice!

[Майор Хаткевич]

Holy smokes those look nice!

Sure beats the $30 Red Ryder at Walmart.

[NIN]

Holy smokes those look nice!

Sure beats the $30 Red Ryder at Walmart.

My only concern is that those have a functionality (which I'm sure can be disabled), but that = more things to fall off, go clank, etc and might affect the durability as a color guard weapon.

Which is why I pointed out those Drill America M-1s. My old unit has had those for years, kept in gun cases except when in use, and they still look like new.  They're basically a solid rifle.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Oh I wouldn't get the M14 BB gun for Color Guard. Now...as a BB Gun...

[Eclipse]

Holy smokes those look nice!

Sure beats the $30 Red Ryder at Walmart.

My only concern is that those have a functionality (which I'm sure can be disabled), but that = more things to fall off, go clank, etc and might affect the durability as a color guard weapon.

Which is why I pointed out those Drill America M-1s. My old unit has had those for years, kept in gun cases except when in use, and they still look like new.  They're basically a solid rifle.

CAPR 52-16
2-11. Weapons. There will be no firearms, air guns, paint guns or any devices that could be used as weapons at cadet activities. The only exceptions to this policy are:
a. Deactivated Firearms. Cadets may use facsimile or deactivated firearms only as part of an honor guard or color guard. A deactivated firearm is one that will prevent the insertion of ammunition or the firing of a weapon. A facsimile is a copy that is not capable of firing ammunition.

Possession could also be illegal in certain jurisdictions for anyone under 18.  I know in the area I grew up in, the laws was all over the map.
In the city BB Guns were banned, in the suburbs across the street they could be purchased at K-Mart.

You'd have to destroy it to even consider using it - spending $170 on something just to ruin it seems like a waste to me.  Your best bet is to get the
best looking, lightest, least expensive parade rifles you can find.  They will be dropped, abused, and played with (like it or not), not to mention that
no one in the audience that is further then 20 feet away will know the difference, nor care.